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What is 7 on 7 off really like?

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-FlyAuburn-

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Posts
225
My wife and I are excited about the possibility of me being employed with NetJets one day hopefully very soon. However, we have been talking a great deal about the lifestyle change from our current one.

We have a three year old daughter and currently I am home every night. One of the benefits of being an air ambulance pilot. Before this I flew 135 charter at two different companies and extended 3 or 4 night overnights were the norm about twice a month, but that's not quite the same as a 7 and 7 schedule. I guess my question is, for those of you with families (or those without) was this schedule tough to adjust to or has it been worth it in the long run?

Any input on what it's really like would be helpful.
 
I have a 6 year old and a 2 year old. It will be toughest on your wife because she will be on her own more often. Usually around day 5 is when my wife starts wanting me home. The kids will adjust pretty quickly.

Once you are home for 7 days straight a couple of times, you will really start to enjoy it. It's nice when you walk in the door on day 7 and don't have to think about work at all for a whole week. Makes for some nice times with the family.

There will also be the opportunity for the 15 day schedule too if the 7 day tours end up being to much of a grind. Tours won't be any longer than 5 days but you have no control over your schedule.

PM me if you want to chat. Where do you live?
 
I cant say for you, being with few overnights, but for me (airline background + a commuter) this is great.

Being gone for 7 days (6 nights) can seem long, but being home for 7 days (8 nights) is just as long.

Its like anything, some weeks you will want to kill your partner and wish you were home; and other weeks you will be having such a good time that you dont want to go home. And when you are home.....you are home. No answering the phone for work.

The worst part is being home for 7 days without any money. Once the money gets better, the 7 days home is like a vacation......every other week.
 
By the end of my 7 days on, I'm definitely ready to go home. Then again, at the end of my 7 days off I'm well-rested and looking forward to another week at work. I used to absolutely despise 5-day trips at my regional but those were worse than our 7-day trips here. Day one and last usually involve some travel, and I usually have at least one day during the tour where I don't do very much, so that helps break up the week.
 
I'm thinking it couldn't be worse than my current schedule--with commuting it's something like 6 on and 1 off. 7 days off... in a row!!! (not total!!) That would be freakin' incredible!!

-Goose
 
Not to mention, the rest we get at our hotels, which are generally good-quality and quiet, is way more restful than the Econo-Lodges, Sleep Inns, and Best Westerns that my former regional airline used. I feel much better after one of these 7-day tours than I did after a 4-day trip with half as many nights in crappy hotels. It makes a difference.

We'll occasionally get stuck somewhere crappy, but that's only been when there's truly nothing else available. Pretty rare in my experience here.
 
Keep in mind that when you take a week off for vacation on 7/7, you really are getting 21 days off in a row with the two other weeks on either end already off - 3 week vacations a couple times per year (more if you are senior). You'll be refreshed and ready to get back on the road after 21 days off in a row...
 
I have worked many different schedules like 6-4, then 8-6, then 8-7. I left the fractional life for a change (improvement) in my QOL. NJ is a top notch company to work for as I have many friends there. I chose to work at the other fractional "Brand X". The schedule was great before we had kids cause the time off was great. I could go on mini vacations get a lot of work done on the house, boat,cars,etc. As you know life changes with kids and in the begining it was not so bad when they did not have much personality or interactive I should say. Things got harder as the kids grew older. Even though I was off work nearly half the month I could never really commit to long term things like being there for the school play, sports coaching or even supporting. It seemed that even after being home half the month it was harder to find time to get home projects done so things were sold like the boat. I chose to spend the time with my kids so I would be working into the night doing house repairs. It just seemed like a never ending game of catch up. Being gone will play hard on your family and your wife will become the backbone. She will become a single parent half of her life.. Is that fair to her? Can she handle it? Your kids will also suffer too. I came close to the point I expected to hear-Hey when is whats his name coming home? I could not bear to see little kids crying their eyes out knowing I would be gone all week. I saw it happening before my eyes and it broke my heart so I decided to make a change and search for a flying job that would keep me home. I eventually found one that would and made the change.. I now have my family life back and it shows in how my wife and kids act. I actually asked the kids the other day if they wished I had that old lifestyle back-they all said it is better the way it is today and they even said I seemed happier-which I am.
So, if it is what you are looking for NJ is the top choice hands down but it is up to you. Can you say a job with NJ and that QOL is better than your current situation?
Good luck in your decision.
 
If planning your life is a key consideration, 7/7 will be helpful. You will know that you can't be called during your 7 days off unless you are open to it. You will know most of your schedule for the entire year on 7/7 and you can plan trips, etc. around it.

You certainly can't do that at an airline unless you are very senior.
 
Hi!

I was also wondering what 7/7 would be like back in Aug/Sep of this year.

I had 26 on/26 off.

cliff
YIP
 
Thanks for all the input. It's going to be a tough decision either way. One thing is for certain, I don't think I would ever do the 15 day or 18 day schedules.

Still, NJA is a great opportunity at a better paying job with excellent benefits and fringe benefits and that is the flipside of the the coin. I want to be able to know that I am doing all I can to provide for my family, and currently I can't really say that.

Sure, the family life in terms of time is excellent, but when you don't have the money to utilize all of that time the way you want to it isn't worth it. Also, worrying about money adds to stress almost as much or more than time away from home would.

For example, I am paying for my own health insurance right now to the tune of $407.00 a month for myself, my wife, and my daughter. I do this because my companie's insurance is a joke, and I still have to pay for it. I would save on premiums but the deductible and high copays would balance it out in the end or make it worse. Not to mention right now I have no dental and vision, and no 401k.

My wife is a stay at home mother also, which means we rely solely on what I bring home. One way or another I will be looking for a new job to change these things.

My top choice is NJA.
 
Flyauburn,

A couple of other things to consider with the NJA schedule.

1) Your schedule will be set for an entire year. I can't guarantee that you'll get the line you really want because it's bid by seniority, but whatever 7/7 line you get, it's good for the entire year. So you can still do a great deal of advance planning.

2)If there are events that you wish to be home for, but are scheduled to work those days, you have options. The first is bidding your vacation to get those days off.

3)Should that not work, we now have an option to do a tour swap. It's something brand new from the IBB, and I don't have the details of how it works, but is a good option to try if you're really stuck.

4)PTO days. You will build up a bank of days that you can use to request extra days off. It only needs to be done no later than a week before you want them. So this is a good short-term solution to events that pop up less time ahead than say bigger events like weddings where you'd know far ahead of time.

5)Sick days. Technically, we're not supposed to use sick days for personal events. That's what PTO days are for. And I'm not condoning the use of sick days for this purpose. But whether I approve or not, it's an option to get those days off you really want. The PTO bank and sick bank are the same. Once those days are used up you're stuck either way. But the PTO days give the company advance notice that you'll be off, whereas they're scrambling to cover you when you call in sick at the last minute, hence the whole reason PTO days came into existence.

6)LOA. You could POSSIBLY take a leave of absence. Seems a little extreme to make your kids' little league championship, and I'm not sure what would actually qualify you for an LOA, but it is an option for certain events.

7)FMLA. This is definitely restricted to certain events, but nevertheless, is an option.

8)Bid the 18 day schedule. On this schedule you have a chance to request certain days off every month, and the company will try to build your schedule around those days. There's no guarantee that you'll get the days you want, but it's a better chance than zero. You may not want to fly the 18 day schedule, but guess what? There are bid periods every 4 months, so once you've used it to try to get those days off, you can get right back on the 7/7 schedule.

As you can see, there are very few GUARANTEES that you'll always get what you want, but odds are, you'll make quite a few of the occasions that you want to. We have numerous options for getting specific days off. So being on the 7/7 schedule, while difficult at times, isn't so bad. I think we've really got a good balance for QOL.
 
I find with the 7n7 I get more "quality" time with the kids than when I was working every day. Hard to do much with them in the few hours you have after you get home. I just try to plan some things to do on my days off, it gives them something to look forward too, as well as the wife. She seems to survive the 7 on better when she knows that the 7 off will be well worth it. My last job was 18 on 12 off though so 7n7 was a big improvement at the time.
 
Hi!

Realityman: Thanx 4 that info! That cleared up a number of questions I had about the bidding process.

Thanx again!

cliff
YIP
 
Thanks for all the input. It's going to be a tough decision either way. One thing is for certain, I don't think I would ever do the 15 day or 18 day schedules.


Not to burst your bubble but I believe that all new hires will initially be put on the 18 day schedule.
 
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Not to burst your bubble but I believe that all new hires will initially be put on the 18 day scedule.

Yeah, I've read that too. No big deal, as eventually I will be able to bid the 7n7 and from what I hear it seems the higher paying schedules will most likely go senior.
 
Up the 40% of the pilots can be on the 18-Day, so it would be a surprise if it filled up. The 15-Day is limited to 10%, and that was the schedule that was thought to go senior...time will tell. 7&7 is the "default" schedule, so there will be a 7&7 line waiting for you assuming you aren't junior assigned to the 15-Day and there's a schedule bid open at the time you need to bid.

Also, realityman, not to be nit-picky, but PTO can be bid as short out as 72 hours...not a week.
 
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Thanks for all the input. It's going to be a tough decision either way. One thing is for certain, I don't think I would ever do the 15 day or 18 day schedules.


Not to burst your bubble but I believe that all new hires will initially be put on the 18 day schedule.

You are correct. New hires will be put on the 18 day fixed schedule initially. The purpose is so you will have a greater oppertunity to be paired up with a training captain for IOE.

Bidding happens every trimester. As soon as you are off of IOE and the next bid period comes around, you will be able to bid for a 7&7 line if you so desire. You will also be able to bid to stay on the 18 day fixed or the 15 day flex, although you mat not be able to hold the 15 day flex.

Hope that helps.
 
Very few people will be on the 18 day schedule continuously as they do the 7&7 and Reserve.

The Flex only pays 10% more than 7&7 so not really worth it.... so maybe junior manned. If it were 20% it would go senior. I think people will do it one trimester at a time alternating with the 7&7 or 18 Fixed. Can't see many stay on it continuously.
 
As soon as you are off of IOE and the next bid period comes around, you will be able to bid for a 7&7 line if you so desire.

With the new contract, the bold part is no longer the case as it was in the last one. They'll start on the 18-day Training schedule, then transition immediately after IOE to either the 18-day Fixed or the 7/7, depending on what they bid.

From the new 19.4(D)(1):

A crewmember will be assigned to the 18-Day Fixed Schedule or, if applicable, the schedule he was awarded pursuant to subsection 19.4(D)(4), effective (a) the last day of duty tour in which he completes IOE training; or (b) at the expiration of the 120 day period described in subsection 19.4(D), whichever occurs first...
Definitely an improvement over the old language. :beer:
 

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