What happened to our "profession"???

[jonjuan]

I think it's interesting how on one hand, you feel that the Walmartization of the airline industry is in part responsible for the depressed pilot salaries. That as costs for everything else goes up, airline ticket prices have remained flat. You want to somehow take the market forces out and in an ideal world begin a labor guild which will force seat prices, revenues, profits, and salaries up. OK, I can see your point.
What I don't understand is how you have made a "killing" in the northern california real estate market over the past few years and somehow think that is simply market forces at work. It's speculators like you who have driven many people out of the real estate market or made home ownership unattainable. Because of this, many lower to middle income life long residents of Northern California will have to leave to be able to afford a place to live.
Yes, I am stretching a a bit, however, I am just trying to understand how on one hand you think there is nothing wrong (I certainly don't) with profiting at the expense of others and helping to fuel the exodus of potential homeowners while on the other hand, believe the current market forces in the airline industry don't make sense and should be artifically controlled because management makes too much and labor makes too little.
These industries are so similar with a small few profiting handsomely. It's quite interesting seeing the dichotomy of your opinion based on your current position, that's all. I am sure your 6 figure friends who are home every night would probably complain in the same manner had they rented the past few years and are now trying to buy a house which has tripled in value.

 

[HA25]

no comparison.. the market place of real estate is not the same as the market place of labor. Two totally different things. More over, I'm not a speculator in that I didn't buy the homes I did to sell them, but more to hold onto as investments.. it was the spike in the market that lead me to sell most of them, and move into a long terms position in commercial real estate. I invested in some good commercial real estate and I make an income from it, while the asset itself increases in value over time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-capitalist.. but on the other hand, I'm not for the freemarket unchecked. There is a balance, and the Catholic church (namely Pope JP II) has written a lot about this.. it's just so un-PC to follow what the church teaches these days.

 

[HA25]

As for Northern CA specifically.. the costs there have not gone up as much as other markets.. I grew up in Norcal and I can tell you it's always been expensive. Pilots earning top pay historically (from the late 70s) would have had a hard time buying in a nice neighborhood on one income.

 

[pilotyip]

This is still a great career, where else can you have an income in the upper 5% of US wage earners and do something you like.

 

[ksu_aviator]

In the past few years...

-Home prices have gone up 3-4 times..
-Gas is 2-3 times as much
-Food is 2 times as much
-Cars cost a lot more..
-Medical care is 3-4 times as much

...everything costs more.. everything!

I can't believe no one addressed the inaccuracies in this. First, home prices are dropping! I bought my home, brand new, for approximately $55 per square foot. Gas has gone up, way up, no argument there. Cars are much cheaper, well trucks any way. I saw a brand new, 2007 Ford F150 for $16,000. A few years ago that would be a $28,000 truck. Medical care is also up, won't argue there.

Over all, inflation was 2.5% (I believe) for 2005-2006. Last forecast I saw for 2006-2007 was 2%. Anyone that is not getting at least a 2% pay increase is, in reality, taking a pay cut.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally on board with the idea of reversing the race to the bottom. However, the only legitimate action that can be taken is to use real information to make a strong argument for real wage increases.

 

[HA25]

First, home prices are dropping!

Wait, do you live in the United States? Dropping in the past 6 months after a 6 year run up were in the past two years alone prices have doubled in many markets.

I bought my home, brand new, for approximately $55 per square foot.

Please don't take this at all wrong, but do you live in a double wide? $55/foot inclusive of land is impossible even in this down market. I made my living in real estate development over the past 3 years and i've done well. most of my investments were in the SW and California, band even in the least expensive parts of Arizona, a home 2 years ago was about $110/foot.. 5 years before, that same home was about $70/foot and today it's closer to $150.. PRICES ARE DROPPING, but it's an adjustment where the excess supply is being absorbed, but they're not dropping like you seem to infer.

Gas has gone up, way up, no argument there. Cars are much cheaper, well trucks any way. I saw a brand new, 2007 Ford F150 for $16,000. A few years ago that would be a $28,000 truck.

Are you pricing the same exact truck? I doubt it.. the WSJ did an article on car prices last year and the average price increase on most cars has been abut 7-8% per year since 1990.



Over all, inflation was 2.5% (I believe) for 2005-2006. Last forecast I saw for 2006-2007 was 2%. Anyone that is not getting at least a 2% pay increase is, in reality, taking a pay cut.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally on board with the idea of reversing the race to the bottom. However, the only legitimate action that can be taken is to use real information to make a strong argument for real wage increases.

That figure is bogus (not calling you a lair, but the govt that puts it out). Inflation figures are a poor indicator of costs.. First and foremost, they don't include the price of housing, and they don't include the cost of energy.

 

[PCL_128]

That figure is bogus (not calling you a lair, but the govt that puts it out). Inflation figures are a poor indicator of costs.. First and foremost, they don't include the price of housing, and they don't include the cost of energy.

Actually, yes they do. Core CPI doesn't include housing and energy, but overall CPI (which is the figure that he gave) does include everything.

 

[HA25]

Actually, yes they do. Core CPI doesn't include housing and energy, but overall CPI (which is the figure that he gave) does include everything.

and are we SERIOUSLY to believe that home prices (the single largest cost item for most people) have only gone up 2.5% a year?

Odd... how did I manage to turn such a large return on my real estate investments from 2000/1 thru 2005/6?

Nope... sorry the number is bogus. Milk and TV's might be going up at 2.5%, but houses and energy sure aren't.

 

[PCL_128]

and are we SERIOUSLY to believe that home prices (the single largest cost item for most people) have only gone up 2.5% a year?

Odd... how did I manage to turn such a large return on my real estate investments from 2000/1 thru 2005/6?

Nope... sorry the number is bogus. Milk and TV's might be going up at 2.5%, but houses and energy sure aren't.

The CPI is an average of all costs. Each item is weighted based on how much of the average consumer's budget is allocated to that item. Housing prices are measured by fair-market rents. Energy prices take into account rising gas prices. Energy may not have gone up only 3%, but something else went down or only went up .5% and weighted the average down. It's all in the average. Believe it or not, but it's not a giant conspiracy.

 

[HA25]

The CPI is an average of all costs. Each item is weighted based on how much of the average consumer's budget is allocated to that item. Housing prices are measured by fair-market rents. Energy prices take into account rising gas prices. Energy may not have gone up only 3%, but something else went down or only went up .5% and weighted the average down. It's all in the average. Believe it or not, but it's not a giant conspiracy.

Fair market rents have not even close to kept up with housing costs. Just ask all of the real estate "speculators" that are renting out homes at negative cashflows to help cover the costs of 95% LTV interest only loans.

In the end, Homes today cost about 2-4 times what they did in 1996.. take my word for it.

 

[PCL_128]

In the end, Homes today cost about 2-4 times what they did in 1996.. take my word for it.

That's only true in select markets where the homebuyers are insane (such as SoCal and south Florida). In most markets in the country, house prices have been rising a steady 5-8% a year.

 

[pilotyip]

They are about the same price in the Detroit area. New home 2900 sq ft, 3 BR, 2 1/2 bath, $295,000, used home 1500 sq ft, 4 BR, 2 Bath, $160,000

 

[HA25]

They are about the same price in the Detroit area. New home 2900 sq ft, 3 BR, 2 1/2 bath, $295,000, used home 1500 sq ft, 4 BR, 2 Bath, $160,000

Phoenix Arizona is a lot more expensive.. but in the end, pilots as professionals should be able to live in the same neighborhoods as lawyers and doctors, and not $150,000 homes the size of apartments.

Call me a snob, I couldn't care less, or give a rats rear..

 

[pilotyip]

Why should pilots lives like Doc's and Lawyers? There is no comparison, Doctors are knowledge workers, and pilots are skilled workers. Doctors go to school for up to 20 years, work for slave wages until established in practice. Anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can be a pilot, no high school diploma, no college BS degree required, no MD in Medicine like a doctor, just go to a trade school and develop a skill. Pilots unlike Doctors, CPA's and Engineers have no unique abilities that allow them to change jobs and be paid close to their last job. The job can be done by anyone with a Comm/MEL/Inst. High earnings are based upon seniority within a company's pay structure. When you can not live on a pilot’s pay, you go somewhere else where you can get better pay. I have had four non-flying jobs while waiting for a chance to get back into aviation. I have never seen a $100K in my life and I would be happy to work for that. I am still living my dream. If you want to be extremely rich, get out of flying and get into the U of M or Harvard MBA programs, then you can live with the Doc's and Lawyers. Or you can run a Muffler Shop like my brother in law, high school grad, who lives in an executive/professional neighborhood.

 

[PCL_128]

V70T5, you want to know what happened to our profession? Sh!tbags like the above poster are what happened to this profession. He compares us to plumbers and brick layers, meanwhile we are responsible for tens of millions of dollars in property and hundreds of people's lives every day we go to work. There are too many pilots out there that think like this guy. That's what has caused the degradation of our profession.