What Fractional?

[Cpt Splash]

I would say Flex or CS would be a good fit. I looked into both and went with Flex even though I had the Citation type already. CS is growing fast but I thought Flex was a better fit for me. It's funny how you don't see the Netjet, or FLOP guys responding to this thread. Actually I think the administrator of this board should create a Netjet bitch forum because that is all you see lately under the fractional board. Just my $.02.

 

[Flybet3]

cooool

I would say Flex or CS would be a good fit. I looked into both and went with Flex even though I had the Citation type already. CS is growing fast but I thought Flex was a better fit for me. It's funny how you don't see the Netjet, or FLOP guys responding to this thread. Actually I think the administrator of this board should create a Netjet bitch forum because that is all you see lately under the fractional board. Just my $.02.

Hey thanks, I think those two are the one that have attracted me the most. Why did you chool Flex J? does it pay more? better QOL? And yeah, I guess FLOPS and NET JETS must suck, b/c no one has responded yet.

 

[650 driver]

What schedule does Flex have, and do they allow you to commute?
Is DFW/DAL the only base?

Thanks
650

 

[NJA Capt]

I guess FLOPS and NET JETS must #### b/c no one has responded yet.

Maybe we have a life other than this board.....give it some time. This thread only started 6 hours ago and you guys have cranked out two pages of replies!

Now since you asked:
I am quite happy at NJA. We have our problems like everyone else, but I believe our QOL and career potential far outweigh any of our competitors. CitationShares seems to be a decent outfit but aircraft diversity is not much of an option with only a handful of Cessna products. The same goes for FlexJet. With due respect to the Flex crews, they seem to have fallen off the planet. We hardly ever see them on the road, or hear them in the air. I see FAR more former Flex aircraft than I see active FlexJet aircraft. I'm not sure where the growth is coming from because their aircraft totals have fallen from 120+ to <90 over the last few years. The latest trade rags showed FlexJet losing 2 owners for every 1 gained.

Flex has furloughed twice in its short 10 year existence.
NetJets has not furloughed at all, in 18 years.
Flex has +/- 800 employees (Bombardier website)
NetJets has 2000 pilots alone.
http://netjets.com/News%20and%20Info/pdfs/NetJets%20Fast%20Facts%2002-05.pdf

 

[Cpt Splash]

Flex offers 6n4 and a first year base of 33,000. The bases are New York(EWR), FLL, DFW, and Ontario, Cali. I liked Flex because in the interview I was impressed with the overall company. The aircraft at Flex I think are more fun. No offense to Cessna, but Lears are cool. The pilots I fly with are some of the best people I've encountered. PM me for specific questions

 

[vixin]

Thats funny NJA Capt lets turn this into a bash session shall we. We are extreamly busy. We are growing. We had some of the best months in the history of the company for sales. I can say the same about you guys, not that I really care if I dont hear you on the radio. Who needs to furlough with the wages you guys get paid. Heck they almost got you for free. Talk about a change in attitudes. I see your guys every week and it is hard to get a hello let alone a conversation. The only time I see NJ guys anymore its when they are having a NJA gripe session. Two for one thats funny we should be gone by now. Lets talk about a life. All NJA guys do is high jack threads tell us how great it is their and then biotch about the industry leading contract. Yes I have seen it all here before you guys are going to be the sole ones responsible for making ALL the fracs better with that contract. NJA has guys on here just about every minute. I know most of the NJA guys on here are great guys it just takes a few idiots to turn things. I appologize to any I may offend. Maybe guys like NJA CAPT should keep the idiotic opinions to himself. As will I for now on. I am more then happy to give him or her all the facts, good and bad. It is not perfect here, far from it. But give it a rest already will ya.

 

[Cpt Splash]

. With due respect to the Flex crews, they seem to have fallen off the planet. We hardly ever see them on the road, or hear them in the air. I see FAR more former Flex aircraft than I see active FlexJet aircraft. I'm not sure where the growth is coming from because their aircraft totals have fallen from 120+ to <90 over the last few years. The latest trade rags showed FlexJet losing 2 owners for every 1 gained.

Flex has furloughed twice in its short 10 year existence.
NetJets has not furloughed at all, in 18 years.
Flex has +/- 800 employees (Bombardier website)
NetJets has 2000 pilots alone.
http://netjets.com/News%20and%20Info/pdfs/NetJets%20Fast%20Facts%2002-05.pdf

Which planet are you talking about? The last time I looked we have been flying and not parked all day. Sales have been great. The 300 is selling like crazy. We are also updating our Fleet with new aircraft and selling any A/C over 5 years old. Pan Am also used to be the top dog in the skies, but where are they now? Netjets has a large fleet yes, but I think if you guys don't work out the problems, its not going to be around that much longer. I say this from talking to you guys on the road and from what all of us see here on the board. I was in CMH yesterday and the shuttle driver said that out of 30 interviewees that were scheduled to come down, 7 showed up. I hope you guys really get all that you are shooting for but until then stop posting untrue info.

 

[NJA Capt]

Vixin,

It is you that needs to give it a rest. Ironic that someone asks for an opinion, but when it's not what you like to hear you say, "well, who asked you?" You know what? I call it as I see it. I did not slander anyone or any part of FlexJet. The guy asked for an opinion, I gave one. If you don't like it....that's not really my problem.

Try decaf.

 

[NJA Capt]

People: Please stop quoting the entire post you are responding to.

stop posting untrue info.

What's untrue?
Has your total fleet totals decreased? Yes
Have you furloughed? Yes
Do you have 800 employees? Your website says so.
And yes, it was published last fall that you guys had the highest turnover rate among owners. If I can find a link, I would be more than happy to post it for you. Try back issues of Pro Pilot and B&CA, it was probably put out by ARG/US.

The rest that I said was my opinion. I called it the way I see it. I never said you weren't flying your tail off. I said I hardly cross paths with you. You guys used to be a powerhouse that we saw everywhere we went. These days I don't see you around much. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

Lears are cool.

What are you, 15? I guess to a teenager, the fact that Lears are "cool" would be the reason you would choose one company over another.

 

[Cpt Splash]

What are you, 15? I guess to a teenager, the fact that Lears are "cool" would be the reason you would choose one company over another.

Good one, you got me

 

[gunfyter]

Thats funny NJA Capt lets turn this into a bash session shall we. .

Actually it was Capt Splash that fired the first shot:

It's funny how you don't see the Netjet, or FLOP guys responding to this thread. Actually I think the administrator of this board should create a Netjet bitch forum because that is all you see lately under the fractional board. Just my $.02.



​

He was also wrong. I was the very first to respond.

 

[Flybet3]

OK FOLKS! I didnt post this gouge for anyone to start bashing anyone!
I need advice guys! In the future I want to join a fractional, I dont want to work for a regional...major would be nice, but fractionals seem like a good career path. I'm 21 you guys, I really need some direction from experienced mature pilot! if I talk to guys with my experience and my age, all I hear is BULLSH!+ like got to pinchnickle, fly new jets. I want to fly for someone that will be worth for flying for a career choice. I dont think that a regional is for me....I need good advice, you guys have been doing this for a while.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

Good one, you got me

All just good natured fun, Cpt.

 

[NJA Capt]

Here ya go Vixin, I even highlighted some of it for you. Sorry. You asked.

http://www.aviationnow.com/shownews/04nbaa/aircraft2_06.htm

"Concerning the leading fractional players, O'Neill said CitationShares and NetJets continued to show "significant growth" while FlexJet, a division of Bombardier Aerospace, and Flight Options, LLC, an affiliate of the Raytheon Company, did not. Citing data from leading investment bank, UBS, O'Neill said FlexJet is losing nearly two customers for every one that joins, while Flight Options is keeping pace one for one. Much of CitationShares' growth is coming from companies or individuals fed-up with flying aboard commercial airlines, he said."

 

[gunfyter]

OK,

My answer is go to the first one that hires you FIRST. You have a ways to go to meet minimum qualification. By the time that happens the situation at many of these companies will be very different.

You are young enough to switch sides. We have tons of people who moved over from Options or Flex.

NJA gives you the most variety of types to Fly. That will never be the case at the other 3.

NJA contract will be finished before you can apply. Effects of 91 K implimentation on all companies will pan out.

In my original post I thought you were asking about where to go TODAY. Today the fastest trip to the Left Seat is at CS... and also the best pay and schedule.

 

[hawkercpt]

As far as Options goes

We have to see if we can even survive this 135 transition. Moral is in the crapper. There are rumblings of another union drive starting. We are loosing guys and not hiring replacements. You want more specifics...PM me.

 

[Cpt Splash]

Here ya go Vixin, I even highlighted some of it for you. Sorry. You asked.

http://www.aviationnow.com/shownews/04nbaa/aircraft2_06.htm

"Concerning the leading fractional players, O'Neill said CitationShares and NetJets continued to show "significant growth" while FlexJet, a division of Bombardier Aerospace, and Flight Options, LLC, an affiliate of the Raytheon Company, did not. Citing data from leading investment bank, UBS, O'Neill said FlexJet is losing nearly two customers for every one that joins, while Flight Options is keeping pace one for one. Much of CitationShares' growth is coming from companies or individuals fed-up with flying aboard commercial airlines, he said."

So you take the word of the CEO of CS. I guess the president of the competition will always give accurate info. How old is that article anyway?

Bottomline: The kid is looking for a good fractional to work for. My suggestion was CS or Flex because they offer liveable wages. More people seem to complain about Netjets as opposed to like it. The new contract was voted down by what 86%. If any of those statements were true then we would have the fleet we currently have. I don't think flex ever had 120+ aircraft. We're growing and hiring. My advice is talk to the guys on the road and you will get the real story

 

[vixin]

I wont waste any more time on NJ CAPT. You are the typical NJ tool we all see here my dad is bigger then your dad. What is the definition of is. Like you said last fall. That is old news. Gunfyter you I respect, thanks for aswering that question for me. But I must say it was just his "opinion". NJ CAPT you give us that valued opinon of yours, almighty frac man. Like I said before I will give the good and the bad about FlexJet I am very honest about it. I know we all have our problems just stop the We are better then thou. I know we are better then no one, just the same as everyone. I say hi to all frac pilots. I could careless who you fly for or what. Lets just meet down stairs, hangar fly and have a beer maybe some BBQ.

Flybet3 just pick the one that gives you the best quality of life. Only you know what that is for you.

 

[LXJ31]

Here ya go Vixin, I even highlighted some of it for you. Sorry. You asked.

You're not sorry, why say so? A person with alot of character would have defused the situation in a good-natured fashion rather than continue the hijacking of another fractional thread into another Netjets rules/WarrenBuffet/BerkshireHathaway/ContractContractContract/8000pilots deal that, speaking strictly for myself, just don't have the energy for anymore. It was entertaining, then informative, then boring the first 500 times I've read these threads but I just don't/can't care about it. Its a frickin' echo chamber; the same 15-20 Netjets pilots (and can't forget The Wife) just waiting for an excuse to cheerlead or denigrate any aspect about Netjets, so long as you get to spam the board.

I know there is not a gun to my head forcing me to read your posts. I don't even click on the ones that begin "Netjets Domiciles" or "NetJets MEC" or "NetJets Company Softball Signups." But this one wasn't one of those.

This young man was looking for info into a possible career in this segment of aviation. What he found was Barnum and freakin' Bailey cramming ten clowns into a Volkswagen.

If I was him, I'd look at switching my major.

Its beer:30 and I was just released, so I'll be unavailable for a bit...