What do we REALLY make???

[VABB]

Bump.

 

[satpak77]

Congrats, that is good pay, is better than a school teacher with a college degree makes after teaching in North Carolina for 10 years.

This in and of itself means nothing. Unless this is the ole "why do you need a degree" argument again. That guy's pay is better than a school teacher with a college degree, it is also less than some Licensed Vocational Nurses with no college degree. Which is another "so what" argument.

His pay is his pay, period. Trying to claim "it is better than XXXX" is fruitless and means nothing. He also makes less than Detroit union autoworkers with no college degree. Again, so what.

 

[pilotyip]

But I though a college degree was the only way to ever make any money? Isn't that what the college only crowd has been telling me for 6 years now, I am now trying to think in a politically correct manner, How am I doing?

 

[HelloNewman]

These pay comparisons are retarded. To really compare actual pay you have to look at how many days someone worked and how many hours they were away from base. There are guys I work with that make 10 or 20 grand more than I do that fly the same equipment and have similar seniority. They pick up open time and bid for fewer days off. So to suggest your paycheck is bigger without factoring how much work was involved is asinine.

Once you account for days off and time away from base you have to look at the rest of the big picture.

Vacation accrual
401K
B Fund
Uniform allowance
FAA medical reimbursement
Quality of health insurance plan
Work rules
Trip/Duty rigs

A buddy at a fractional for example has a great 100% paid for by the company health care plan including his FAA medicals. To cover my medical insurance premiums for the family, copays, non-covered treatment runs me 5000 or 6000 per year. Thanks to medical savings account I can pay that with pre-tax dollars. But if I'm comparing how much I get paid I have to subtract several thousand from my pay before I compare it with his.

Since PBS SkyWest pilots are working far more days and have way less vacation. Now SkyWest pilots aren't get paid for cancellations. It's one of those pen stroke policy changes. Unlike unionized counterparts there is nothing SkyWest pilots can do about it. They just take their pay cut and keep smiling.

All the ALPA boys can do is "grieve it" wait around for a few months to a couple years and hope the arbitrator rules in their favor. Since PBS I have actually worked less. I have a lot more lineholders under me and get 15-16 days off/ month. I am no longer junior in base and havent seen a CN code in months. Basically you are stating your goal is to be a lazy ass and still make a ton of money for it. We all want to work little and still make a lot of money. This is not efficent for the company. If you want to really make good money start your own buisness or go into management. We are just white collar workers relaxing and doing a job we enjoy. Here at skywest we have a little more team spirit. We work hard and we play hard!

I don't know what it is with your mis-information about PBS but you tend to over exagerrate about it. Don't worry, PM me if you like and I will give you the real scoop on PBS.

 

[satpak77]

But I though a college degree was the only way to ever make any money? Isn't that what the college only crowd has been telling me for 6 years now, I am now trying to think in a politically correct manner, How am I doing?

The degree is just a paper shingle on the wall. The ones from Harvard cost alot, the ones that come from state schools cost less. The degree is not a "way to make money", that would be satisfying a need or skill that is in demand. The ability to see that a need exists could potentially be enhanced by having a degree. But no guarantee.

Airlines ala SWA, UPS, FDX, pay big salaries because of the historical union campaigns and thats what the market place calls for. Regionals/Commuters pay ALPO wages because, they can. Period.

An AA captain making 250K to fly a 777 is not paid this due to his huge intellect or dare I say, supreme abilities to engage the FD/AP at 500 AGL. He gets that because that is what AA pays him.

Spirit MD-80 pilots get what they get because that is what Spirit pays. Want higher pay to fly an MD-80? Go to AA or DAL.

Your/our salary worth is not determined by us, people. It is determined by the company you work for. That may bruise some egos and people will beat their little fists on their chests and get mad, but thats the truth.

If you "are worth" XXXX a year, you need to go start your own company.

Don't be mad that you were on the Riddle Flight Team and got an A+ on your paper concerning Human Error and Accidents and discover you will be making 15,000 a year flying Navajos for Scare-Exchange. Nobody past mommy and daddy who are paying your tuition care.

As long as your work for someone else, your fate is in someone else's hands, regardless of illusions of seniority, etc.

A college degree is not a key to "riches" anymore that not having one is a key to non-riches.

Being a pilot is at times a very highly paid, and fun, blue-collar job. No, making 100,000 a year does not make it white-collar. If that were true, crack dealers, Lexus salesman, busy welders, and porn stars (another fun job) would be on the Fortune Magazine "White Collar Jobs" list. They are not, for white collar jobs typically get that way do to an education requirement, not certification requirement. I met an EMT the other day who had like 10 different licenses, from EMT Basic to Paramedic to Emergency Room-something to firefighter. Does this make him "white collar?" No. He also was a licensed plumber. Still no.

 

[embdrvr]

All the ALPA boys can do is "grieve it" wait around for a few months to a couple years and hope the arbitrator rules in their favor. Since PBS I have actually worked less. I have a lot more lineholders under me and get 15-16 days off/ month. I am no longer junior in base and havent seen a CN code in months. Basically you are stating your goal is to be a lazy ass and still make a ton of money for it. We all want to work little and still make a lot of money. This is not efficent for the company. If you want to really make good money start your own buisness or go into management. We are just white collar workers relaxing and doing a job we enjoy. Here at skywest we have a little more team spirit. We work hard and we play hard!

I don't know what it is with your mis-information about PBS but you tend to over exagerrate about it. Don't worry, PM me if you like and I will give you the real scoop on PBS.

NewWoman,
Based on what we know about you I don't think you spent too much time bidding hard lines. PBS has been around for a while and since you have an ID number in the high 23000's range you were pretty junior when we had hard lines. As an FO you build seniority pretty quick and being in a larger base helps as well. Since you've chosen to remain an FO you get a pretty decent schedule. That's fine. Since lots of people know who you are I'd probably hold off on upgrading since it's up or out. Or at least stop making an idiot out of yourself on FI. It doesn't reflect well on you. And you'd be surprised how many people read it. Unfortunately (for you) someone outed you a while ago and PM'd several FI posters.

And no I'm not trying to be a lazy ass. I want to be paid more money if I work more than I did before. Why should I do more work for less money? It's not like I'm getting much more per hour. Of course you were dancing in the street with that one percent bump and a tiny override. Your goal may be to do more for less but that's not the American way. If you work more and have fewer days off you should see more money in your bank account.

The company is one of the top 3 most profitable airlines.
Yet pilot compensation, retirement, work rules, and vacation accrual is closer to tthe bottom of the industry than the top.

Shouldn't the pilot group that is partly responsible for some of the best DOT ratings in the industry be rewarded?

Shouldn't the pilot group that has worked hard to help the company succeed and make enough money to buy ASA participate more fully in the success they made possible?

Why is it that a$$wipes like you think that we should receive nothing in return for a multitude of concessions?

There is plenty of proof of my assessment of PBS. You read the same forums I do. PBS lacks the transparency of hard lines. If a domicile is short staffed people are essentially junior manned through forced pairings. With hard lines there was more open time so the guys who actually wanted the additional flying could pick it up for time and a half. Worked great. Now you just get stuck with it for straight pay.

Your attitude sucks. It's the classic "if I'm not having a problem then there is not problem" mentality. Guys like you really piss me off. You disgust me. You are in opposition to everything I was taught by my parents and what was ingrained in me during my years in the military.

We're all in this together. Even the scumbags like you.
You're a self absorbed arrogant prick.
You post on here acting like you've been around 5 or 10 years. You don't have a clue of what things were like so quit pretending. Talk to your captains and ask them what's changed.

 

[pgcfii2002]

7 pages........minimum.

 

[Steve]

The degree is just a paper shingle on the wall. The ones from Harvard cost alot, the ones that come from state schools cost less. The degree is not a "way to make money", that would be satisfying a need or skill that is in demand. The ability to see that a need exists could potentially be enhanced by having a degree. But no guarantee.

Airlines ala SWA, UPS, FDX, pay big salaries because of the historical union campaigns and thats what the market place calls for. Regionals/Commuters pay ALPO wages because, they can. Period.

An AA captain making 250K to fly a 777 is not paid this due to his huge intellect or dare I say, supreme abilities to engage the FD/AP at 500 AGL. He gets that because that is what AA pays him.

Spirit MD-80 pilots get what they get because that is what Spirit pays. Want higher pay to fly an MD-80? Go to AA or DAL.

Your/our salary worth is not determined by us, people. It is determined by the company you work for. That may bruise some egos and people will beat their little fists on their chests and get mad, but thats the truth.

If you "are worth" XXXX a year, you need to go start your own company.

Don't be mad that you were on the Riddle Flight Team and got an A+ on your paper concerning Human Error and Accidents and discover you will be making 15,000 a year flying Navajos for Scare-Exchange. Nobody past mommy and daddy who are paying your tuition care.

As long as your work for someone else, your fate is in someone else's hands, regardless of illusions of seniority, etc.

A college degree is not a key to "riches" anymore that not having one is a key to non-riches.

Being a pilot is at times a very highly paid, and fun, blue-collar job. No, making 100,000 a year does not make it white-collar. If that were true, crack dealers, Lexus salesman, busy welders, and porn stars (another fun job) would be on the Fortune Magazine "White Collar Jobs" list. They are not, for white collar jobs typically get that way do to an education requirement, not certification requirement. I met an EMT the other day who had like 10 different licenses, from EMT Basic to Paramedic to Emergency Room-something to firefighter. Does this make him "white collar?" No. He also was a licensed plumber. Still no.

well said.

 

[DoinTime]

An AA captain making 250K to fly a 777 is not paid this due to his huge intellect or dare I say, supreme abilities to engage the FD/AP at 500 AGL. He gets that because that is what AA pays him.

Spirit MD-80 pilots get what they get because that is what Spirit pays. Want higher pay to fly an MD-80? Go to AA or DAL.

Not really. Pilots are paid what they are paid at different properties because thats what their Union has negotiated for them. If it were up to AA or Spirit to decide what pilots got paid you can bet that the minimum pay to keep the front seats full with pilots that meet an acceptable level of saftey would be paid.

If it were up to supply and demand to determine what pilot wages were you'd never see a six digit salary again. Not even to fly the biggest of airplanes. Unions are the ONLY reason for the handsom lifestyles enjoyed by so many pilots.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

The ignorance at all levels in this business is sickening. If you want to be treated like professionals then start acting and speaking like one. I'm ashamed to be associated with most of you.