What do RJET pilots think happens after RJET SLI?

[SizzleChest]

Why do you TRUST your leadership? It's almost laughable. The IBT has gotten you what in your negotiations with the company? Google lackey. At least FAPA had the nads to TRY (thats all we wanted at MEH) and fight for ALL FAPA pilots (on and off property). Our ALPA leadership showed its self interests with disregarding well over half of our list.

Consistently throughout the entire process the IBT has shown a selfish interest and admitted to the above accusations. Three of the four parties agree with how the IBT is acting (everyone else dress like they agreed to it except one, everyone else did not release the proposals except one), yet you seem to continue to spout the IBT line. Keep falling for it: hook, line, and sinker.

Being as that I am not on a NC, I cannot say what they have gotten in negotiations. If you aren't on the NC, you wouldn't know either. Sound like you aren't happy with your union either. Each union fought for what they felt was right in the SLI proposals. Everyone is going to say theirs is the best against all the others. Of course the non-IBT people are going to say IBT sucks. They want their union to continue as the union from here on out. FAPA and the other unions pressed quite hard to get copies of the proposals so they couldn't have been too horrified. There's no falling for anything. Many of the RAH pilots are far from being "pie pipered" or "falling for it hook, line and sinker." Maybe the other unions secretly feel that the RAH proposal has the best chances of winning? We won't know until 12/1 anyhow. The arbitrator must have needed more time after MEH ALPA extended the deadline TWICE.

 

[SizzleChest]

I believe that if you had all 3,000 pilots in a room and asked each of them individually, each one would agree that we should "join together".

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is slightly more complicated.

"Join together" as Teamsters?

"Join together" as an Independent Union?

ALPA?

We don't have a "join together" button that you can push.

There are four pilot groups and three CBA's involved in this circus.

Only one CBA has airbus payrates. Only one CBA has pay raises going forward.

The pilots involved need to get over the name on the union letterhead and figure out which bargaining unit is going to provide the highest level of service.

I just can't fathom why ANYONE would support a labor organization that has been sitting on their hands for several years, doing nothing with an amendable CBA. The most common RAH/IBT defense of their current Chautauqua CBA is that was "ratified in 2003". While that is a true statement, the Chautauqua CBA became amendable in October 2007. Three years have passed, with zero progress.

We could be having an entirely different discussion today had the Local IBT leadership successfully negotiated a new CBA or at least had some TA's that could be used as negotiating leverage.

For the first time in the history of aviation, a new aircraft type was added to a new certificate, AFTER the amendable date of the controlling CBA, yet NO new pay rate was established. You didn't need new language to open the CBA because your ENTIRE CBA is currently open for negotiation, yet the local IBT leadership does nothing.

Think about that for a moment when the IBT begins their representation drive.

Unfortunately, by doing nothing, the Local IBT leadership has in effect alienated the entire pilot group.

And only one CBA has scope and only one CBA has this and that and another thing... that's why there is amalgamation in the process chain. I agree people need to join together and everyone is hoping for that going forward as things have been busy in the airline world. What many people fail to realize is that negotiations aren't one sided. If the company drags their feet and the NMB hasn't released anyobody what are you going to do? many of the ideas passed on BBSes are either not RLA legal or simply not an option. Things like "don't go to work and call off!", "issue press releases!", etc. RAH management is very good at showing up and saying "we're not prepared to talk about that" ad naseum. No new payrate was established as an arbitrator deemed it a 99-seat plane which is covered by the CBA. BB has said that 195s will need to be negotiated and post his UCB show, has dangled the payraise carrot to the employees. The funny thing is that in the same sentence it is reported that he said "the IBT will need to help there." or something to that effect. Just another way to spin it back onto and blame the pilots. Everyone is looking fwd to contract talks resuming but an EXCO swap sine they last were held has a spool-up time involved. Contract talks dragging out is very common in the industry now. Look what it took at FL to get a TA....

 

[likeitis]

Wow, there seems to be a lot of hang up on the RAH guys showing up in uniform. Some folks on here seem to have a lot of inside info. How does anyone know what the arbitrator agreed to on the dress code? Are we going by what our reps told us? If that's the case, our reps said the dress code was never mentioned and they always show up to an arbitration in uniform on day one.

Seriously, we are worked up over how people were dressed?

The RAH union leadership has said that we shouldn't pay attention to the proposals because they are what they are and each group was looking out for their own side. They claim the union's job is to look out for their membership, but at the end of the day we need to respect the arbitrator's ruling and come together as one group.

It seems to me the best thing to do is be one unified group fighting managment. If we can retain scope and make this an airline where you go from smallest rj up through narrow body (and possibly beyond) shouldn't we try that? Shouldn't we learn from the mistakes of the legacy's? Is there any reason we can't leave our ego's aside and work as one group, whoever the union is, to make this a successful airline?

The folks in the know seem to be on the F9 and YX side...funny how RAH has supposedly leaked so much info. Leaving the typical urinating contests aside about integration, who dressed how, technicalities about NMB filings, is it possible for these pilot groups to come together?

That's the main question I hear on the line at RAH. We hope to join together as one group, regardless of the ruling, and fight management as a unified group.

The information about the time of release of the proposals and the request for dress code from the arbitrator wasn't protected under the confidentiality agreements unlike the proposals which the teamsters leaked.
The arbitrator requested the dress code because he's played this game before. There is always some dickhead who thinks he can have a leg up by their unreasonable belief that the uniform will influence by it's projection of authority. Why do you think your truckers union has a policy of testifying in uniform. I think he wanted to put the process above high school drama.

 

[likeitis]

Well if we are going by "what we are told" i was told that the arbitrator had no problem with the info release. how could he then be "far from happy"?

As far as the dress code, what does it matter? Really? what difference does it make?

And there is no credibility to the line "why would they expect the company to follow an agrteement if they can't. (?)". There is no relationship there to compare.

Like was said before, you can believe the truckers union or you can believe the other 3 who are saying they are liars. I think if FAPA, IBT and the Lynx union is saying ALPA isn't telling the truth, I'm going to tend believe the majority.

 

[SizzleChest]

Like was said before, you can believe the truckers union or you can believe the other 3 who are saying they are liars. I think if FAPA, IBT and the Lynx union is saying ALPA isn't telling the truth, I'm going to tend believe the majority.

I'm not going to be a follower of the majority like you say you are. I'd rather see the arbitrator make a staement or a punishment if his wishes were truly violated. It doesn't matter in the end because it's a he said, he said situation.

 

[SizzleChest]

The information about the time of release of the proposals and the request for dress code from the arbitrator wasn't protected under the confidentiality agreements unlike the proposals which the teamsters leaked.
The arbitrator requested the dress code because he's played this game before. There is always some dickhead who thinks he can have a leg up by their unreasonable belief that the uniform will influence by it's projection of authority. Why do you think your truckers union has a policy of testifying in uniform. I think he wanted to put the process above high school drama.

If the arbitrator has "played this game before", how is he going to be "influence [d] by it's projection of authority."? It would all be for naught.... which again means that it doesn't matter.

 

[likeitis]

And only one CBA has scope and only one CBA has this and that and another thing... that's why there is amalgamation in the process chain. I agree people need to join together and everyone is hoping for that going forward as things have been busy in the airline world. What many people fail to realize is that negotiations aren't one sided. If the company drags their feet and the NMB hasn't released anyobody what are you going to do? many of the ideas passed on BBSes are either not RLA legal or simply not an option. Things like "don't go to work and call off!", "issue press releases!", etc. RAH management is very good at showing up and saying "we're not prepared to talk about that" ad naseum. No new payrate was established as an arbitrator deemed it a 99-seat plane which is covered by the CBA. BB has said that 195s will need to be negotiated and post his UCB show, has dangled the payraise carrot to the employees. The funny thing is that in the same sentence it is reported that he said "the IBT will need to help there." or something to that effect. Just another way to spin it back onto and blame the pilots. Everyone is looking fwd to contract talks resuming but an EXCO swap sine they last were held has a spool-up time involved. Contract talks dragging out is very common in the industry now. Look what it took at FL to get a TA....

FL isn't a good comparison. How many TA's have they sent back? So they did make progress the entire time. Your union doesn't have a single section TA'd. Excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong but to the best of my knowledge you haven't even filed to have negotiations mediated under the auspices of the NMB. Usually unions file for mediation if the company doesn't come to negotiations in good faith.

 

[likeitis]

If the arbitrator has "played this game before", how is he going to be "influence [d] by it's projection of authority."? It would all be for naught.... which again means that it doesn't matter.

It wasn't for his influence. It's to avoid the childish games that are played out in these events.

It shows the level of respect your group has for agreements.

 

[Flying Illini]

over 5K hours and paid and treated like you have none. beautiful. EVERY FO at Midwest made more than that.

You don't think I realize that?? I've been trying to leave here for the past 17 months. Airlines don't want me because while I have turbine PIC, I don't have the magical pt. 121 turbine PIC.

With experience like that, the two of you should consider moving on to something else.... like say, the bottom of a seniority list at a major?? Just like everyone of those people at a major did.

Read above. You have no idea how much I'd love to move on.

 

[Cardinal]

What many people fail to realize is that negotiations aren't one sided. If the company drags their feet and the NMB hasn't released anyobody what are you going to do?

FAPA negotiated LOA39 with Republic. Striking was not a legal option. FAPA just negotiated an entire new section to add to our contract covering Multiple Domiciles, a TA has been achieved, and will be released to the membership in a few days. Again, striking was not a legal option. These two negotiations prove that contrary to popular opinion, it is possible to negotiate with Republic management.

 

[chqflyer]

FAPA negotiated LOA39 with Republic. Striking was not a legal option. FAPA just negotiated an entire new section to add to our contract covering Multiple Domiciles, a TA has been achieved, and will be released to the membership in a few days. Again, striking was not a legal option. These two negotiations prove that contrary to popular opinion, it is possible to negotiate with Republic management.

Yes FAPA can negotiate with the company. The IBT has been a battered housewife for so long, that the company knows they can completely disregard anything the IBT says or does.

 

[Toobdrvr]

Yes FAPA can negotiate with the company. The IBT has been a battered housewife for so long, that the company knows they can completely disregard anything the IBT says or does.

Let's all remember that if it comes to a representation drive...

 

[dlzav8tr]

The IBT is only focused on seat grabbing and nothing else. If they actualy had a halfway decent contract it would not such a big deal to merge lists with them. The problem is they are going to need huge improvments just to get to a decent regional contract.

 

[Popeye0537]

FAPA negotiated LOA39 with Republic. Striking was not a legal option. FAPA just negotiated an entire new section to add to our contract covering Multiple Domiciles, a TA has been achieved, and will be released to the membership in a few days. Again, striking was not a legal option. These two negotiations prove that contrary to popular opinion, it is possible to negotiate with Republic management.

It's not hard to negotiate a LOA with RAH when management WANTS to negotiate with you.

The IBT is focused on getting the best deal for their union members....and right now the only thing on the table is seats.

 

[likeitis]

It's not hard to negotiate a LOA with RAH when management WANTS to negotiate with you.

The IBT is focused on getting the best deal for their union members....and right now the only thing on the table is seats.

I think not. So the IBT doesn't know how file for mediation?