What CHQ pilots really think!

[410dude]

This is posted on the CHQlounge message board and says volumes as to what's wrong with this industry. They are talking about E-190s at CHQ.
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[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]MatthewAMEL[/font]
[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Champion of the Obscure[/font]

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Registered: Dec 2004
Domicile: MCO
Equipment: EMB
Posts: 41[/font]

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Re: 190's[/font] [font=verdana, arial, helvetica]

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]quote:[/font] Originally posted by billy
But the more of them you get the less jobs there will be available at mainline. ​

Where do people get this idea from?

As far as I know, jetBlue, Southwest and Continential are the only majors hiring. Are you saying that WE (RAH) are taking jobs away from jetBlue and Southwest by flying the 190?

More people are flying today than pre-9/11. The number of seats that the regionals offer is NOT what "competes" with the flying done by majors. Majors are in such dire straits today because THEY missed the boat on the RegionalJet and the whole concept of point-to-point flying!

Hub and spoke is dead. No one wants to get to FLL from CMH by going through ATL.

And yes, I want E190's at RAH because I picked this company as my career. It's not a stepping stone. I will be perfectly happy flying the E190 and making $90K/yr.

As EVERY pilot should know by now, it is far better to be in the top 10% at CHQ than the bottom 25% at ANY major.[/font]








[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]MatthewAMEL[/font]
[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Champion of the Obscure[/font]

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Registered: Dec 2004
Domicile: MCO
Equipment: EMB
Posts: 41[/font]

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]Re: Re: Re: 190's[/font] [font=verdana, arial, helvetica]

[font=verdana,arial,helvetica]quote:[/font] Originally posted by ThruTen
You'll be happy flying a 90-100 airplane for $90,000 when some NWA DC-9 Captain is making $150,000 doing the EXACT SAME JOB??!! God dammit..some of us are trying to have a career!!!!

And do you enjoy the way we are treated at CHQ?? The low-rent, used car salesmen that run this place?? The constant CBA violations?? The micro-management?? SOP's re-issued with one day's notice to prepare?? yadda yadda yadda...​

You are speaking of the NWA that is poised on the brink of bankruptcy? Of that DC-9 crew that is days away from getting the furlough letter? My $90K/yr is gonna look pretty damn good to him when he takes that used car salesman job at Carmax.

I'm also having a career here at CHQ, a damn good one. I don't know of any other job where I get 15 days off a month and make the same money I do, with the potential to make what I can make here.

Don't like it here? Then YOU go over to Comair or ExpressJet. Oh, wait, you mean the guys that sit right seat for 5-7 years in a RJ with NO PLACE to go? Think it's crap here? Then YOU head on over to Mesa or Pinnacle or Eagle and then reminsce about the 'good ol days at CHQ'.

If having a career is truly your goal, then consider...your major choices are pretty limited: Southwest (737), jetBlue (E190/A320), FedEx or UPS. Are you saying you aren't going to be MORE attractive to any of those airlines if you have E190 PIC than if all you have is E145 or CRJ200/700 time? Flying the E170/190 gives you MORE of an opportunity to chase that major career you hold so dear.

Things could be better here...and I believe they are improving. And yes, if it takes an additional side letter to get the company to stop violating the CBA are you saying that's not worthwhile? That the IBT should just let the company continue to violate without trying to support the pilot group?

Management will ALWAYS try to get the most out of us (and the FA's) that they can. It's OUR job to stand up aganist those things we can't live with.[/font]

 

[Alchemy]

MORE attractive to any of those airlines if you have E190 PIC than if all you have is E145 or CRJ200/700 time? Flying the E170/190 gives you MORE of an opportunity to chase that major career you hold so dear.

Ahahaha. Almost as bad as the RJ drivers who put down turboprop drivers. Get over it kids. The E170 and E190 are nothing but big, bloated RJ's. As long as you get paid RJ wages to fly them, they will always be RJ's in my book.

 

[StarChecker]

I'm the one that responded to this clown. He is an unfortunate exception. My opinion is the one that almost all of us share. We do not want these airplanes...they belong at the majors. And you should include my whole post...



"This is the saddest thing I've ever read on any message board. Truly sad. You'll be happy flying a 90-100 airplane for $90,000 when some NWA DC-9 Captain is making $150,000 doing the EXACT SAME JOB??!! God dammit..some of us are trying to have a career!!!!

And do you enjoy the way we are treated at CHQ?? The low-rent, used car salesmen that run this place?? The constant CBA violations?? The micro-management?? SOP's re-issued with one day's notice to prepare?? yadda yadda yadda...

Spend one day at a major and you'd kill yourself before you come back to CHQ. My God...spend 10 minutes reading Comair or ExpressJet's contract and you'll kill yourself when you compare them to our work rules. This management group here hates us. Just look at their attitudes towards CBA violations. They signed a CBA and now, we need a side letter telling them to abide by it??? What kinda crack are we smoking??"

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Yep, it's goobers like him that are killing the airline pilot career.

90k wont even buy a nice new car a few years from now, even now a new truck or nice car will hit ya for 45k +.......never mind trying to have a family and send a couple of snot noses through college.

I dunno about you guys but I didn't spend all that time busting my hump at school and getting the experience so I can be paid the same as the high school grad down the street.

Just think what the 50 seat rates will end up being if the 100 seaters go for 90k max a year!

 

[relief tube]

This guys gotta be joking or making something up. I thought douchebags that go on other airlines forums to come back here and post flame are pathetic enough. This cat works there, and in wanting to awkwardly bash his own airline, does this stupid crap. Unbelievable. That guys not trying to lower the bar, he's trying to bury it in the ground. I ever fly with this fella he's gonna get bi-ch-slapped. I would hope that most would want 90 seaters to always be with mainline. All the crap those fellas have gone through, they deserve more aircraft.

You know what, I read that post again, and he's making it all up. No one is stupid enough to actually be that way. People who lie on message boards to try and get people all riled up really need to check themselves.

 

[Tarzan]

Like it or not, the market wants to go towards 70-90 seaters and theres not much we or ALPA can do about it. But what can be done is once you have them on the property is to fight for the wages for flying bigger equiptment. There are too many guys with SJS (Thank you Bender) initially that will fly stuff like that for nothing. But once this becomes more commonplace do you really believe we won't be able to get the higher wages?

Southwest and Air Tran have both made money all this time abd pay their guys more than regionals. I think the writing is on the wall as far as this goes. Market has changed and those who conform will survive and those that don't will keep cutting employee wages (Northwestern) and eventually disappear.

I am not advocating anyone fly 90 seaters for 50 seater pay (you know who you are), but we need to keep our powder dry for when it's going to be force fed to us. They're going to go were they can make money and if they are making money, we press for the bigger wages for the bigger equiptment.

 

[210FR8DOG]

Like it or not, the market wants to go towards 70-90 seaters and theres not much we or ALPA can do about it. But what can be done is once you have them on the property is to fight for the wages for flying bigger equiptment. There are too many guys with SJS (Thank you Bender) initially that will fly stuff like that for nothing. But once this becomes more commonplace do you really believe we won't be able to get the higher wages?

QUOTE]

Or, more realistically and unfortunately for us all. The company you fly for will start a holding company and pay all the kids off the street who have SJS as bad as anyone, to fly them for, oh I don't know, a buck an hour more than 50 seaters.

Yes, I really do believe that we won't be able to get the higher wages. There's always another holding company lurking around the corner.

 

[ASH]

Hey 410 Dude,

That is an incredibly slanted thread title. For that one post, you neglected the 100 other posts that completely put down this way of thinking at CHQ. We've got a good group of guys here that are fighting the good fight.
I'm CHQ, and I say mainline can have 'em. That just isn't happening though.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Not much the CHQ pilots can do. If mainline is unwiling (or incapable) to fight to keep the scope in their contract then they're SOL.

All you can do is try to help them to help themselves.

 

[MattP]

Class...
Striking intellect

 

[Goose Egg]

I'm sure that I'll soon be shouted down for saying this, but the whole "SJS" is a bit confusing to me. These younger, low time guys go to regionals and fly jets. It's an easy choice for them, because it's either a. keep instructing, or b. go to a regional. The pay is about the same, which is to say bad for the first year, but at least the new FOs won't have to PFT, and, unlike instructing, there is potential for better pay. It's a purely economic decision. The market will support what it will support.

And the SJS comes into play because some of the younger guys were expecting something different, and therefore have unmet expectations and become bitter and jaded. (Judging from some of the attitudes of my fellow instructors, I'd say that the SJS is already setting in.)

But then, you have older, more experienced guys accusing the younger guys of "dragging the profession down." Well, what are we supposed to do? Not accept job offers? Not interview? Quit our instructing jobs unless they pay us more? And all the while the older guys are biding their time so that they can jump ship and take a pay cut to go fly a bigger, shinier jet, thereby "dragging the profession down" themselves. Where does it stop?

Some people say that flying as a profession is not what it once was, and I think in many aspects, that's true. The glamour is gone, and the old pay rates cannot be supported in today's economy. But if one got in it to fly airplanes, then not much has changed except that there's more of it to go around. And what is so wrong about doing what you love and loving what you do as long as you can pay your bills? Honestly, there's nothing in my life that I want that I couldn't get with $90k/ year.

-Goose

 

[410dude]

I'm sure that I'll soon be shouted down for saying this, but the whole "SJS" is a bit confusing to me. These younger, low time guys go to regionals and fly jets. It's an easy choice for them, because it's either a. keep instructing, or b. go to a regional. The pay is about the same, which is to say bad for the first year, but at least the new FOs won't have to PFT, and, unlike instructing, there is potential for better pay. It's a purely economic decision. The market will support what it will support.

And the SJS comes into play because some of the younger guys were expecting something different, and therefore have unmet expectations and become bitter and jaded. (Judging from some of the attitudes of my fellow instructors, I'd say that the SJS is already setting in.)

But then, you have older, more experienced guys accusing the younger guys of "dragging the profession down." Well, what are we supposed to do? Not accept job offers? Not interview? Quit our instructing jobs unless they pay us more? And all the while the older guys are biding their time so that they can jump ship and take a pay cut to go fly a bigger, shinier jet, thereby "dragging the profession down" themselves. Where does it stop?

Some people say that flying as a profession is not what it once was, and I think in many aspects, that's true. The glamour is gone, and the old pay rates cannot be supported in today's economy. But if one got in it to fly airplanes, then not much has changed except that there's more of it to go around. And what is so wrong about doing what you love and loving what you do as long as you can pay your bills? Honestly, there's nothing in my life that I want that I couldn't get with $90k/ year.

-Goose

You must not want to buy a house, have kids, put kids through college, have new cars, etc. And you guys on this board get on MY back! This guys attitude is typical of todays up and coming regional pilots....$90K is a LOT of money! BS, $90K is NOT a lot of money. You will see that eventually regional pilots, but by then it will be too late as $90K is the most you will ever make! But it's your bed so you must lay in it now! Have fun!!!

 

[chrisdahut24]

You must not want to buy a house, have kids, put kids through college, have new cars, etc. And you guys on this board get on MY back! This guys attitude is typical of todays up and coming regional pilots....$90K is a LOT of money! BS, $90K is NOT a lot of money. You will see that eventually regional pilots, but by then it will be too late as $90K is the most you will ever make! But it's your bed so you must lay in it now! Have fun!!!

While I'm not a fan of regional payscales, I have to ask.....90K is NOT a lot of money? What the hell kinda f*cked up budget do you have?

 

[Bdfg1]

While I'm not a fan of regional payscales, I have to ask.....90K is NOT a lot of money? What the hell kinda f*cked up budget do you have?

Typical example of why this has become such a crap job. Thanks to you for not looking to the future. Enjoy that 90K a year 10 years from now when it will be worth the 25K a year you are making now.

 

[ERJDRVR2]

You must not want to buy a house, have kids, put kids through college, have new cars, etc. And you guys on this board get on MY back! This guys attitude is typical of todays up and coming regional pilots....$90K is a LOT of money! BS, $90K is NOT a lot of money. You will see that eventually regional pilots, but by then it will be too late as $90K is the most you will ever make! But it's your bed so you must lay in it now! Have fun!!!

410dude, thanks for taking to time to bring this to our attention.

Is this FLAME (ER) bait ???

 

[shuttlepilot]

90k

Not to be a grinch, but the average income in the area I live, south central VA,
was a little over 27k per year. So 90k is still quit a bit of $ here.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

While I'm not a fan of regional payscales, I have to ask.....90K is NOT a lot of money? What the hell kinda f*cked up budget do you have?

I can see that you have no wife, kids, or thought of how you will fund your retirement.

Childcare is pricey if your wife works....if she does not, you are it for the money. (Kind of hard to have both work and raise kids when you are gone for a week at a time.)

Cars are 25 k a pop now for a cheaper model.

Houses are 130 to 140k in a lower middle class neighborhood in the smaller cities (cookie cutter houses with 50 just like yours in the neighborhood), 200k in the bigger cities.

Nice houses will run you 300k with no problem right now, how about in ten years?

College in 18 to 20 years? 100k easy and that is for a city college.....flight school or doctor? 500k easy if it continues to rise as it is now.


A few things to think about when you see those 90k RJ's.

90k is not squat when you have a family and kids. Your average highschool grad worker bee family can pull 65k between construction jobs and retail store employment. Find a couple in your neighborhood that fits that bill and see how well they are living.

edit: not that living on 65 k or evn 90k is bad......but did you really go to all that training and 4 year degree and work your way up through this industry to just live like your average joe? If so you should have saved your money and gone to a community college for welding or plumbing or some other similar job.

 

[410dude]

More thoughts from CHQ pilots.
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flyrr100
Junior Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Domicile: MCO
Equipment:
Posts: 8
I'll bet the guys moaning about us killing the industry flying 190s are 23 year old academy grads who think the industry owes them everything. Wake up. You got into the industry using something that wasn't available five years ago. We all paid our dues flying night checks, flying 135 light twins, or flying for the military. That was after a few years flight instructing. I had 3500 hours when I was hired here and I was the lowest in my class. You flew a seminole for a few months and think you are owed a slot in a 757.
Don't get me wrong. I have no problem flying with low time Perdue or Delta Connection grads. You are all skilled and very professional. Just stop it with the 'I'm gonna be a 757 Captain before I'm old enough to rent a car' attitude. It's a new era after 9/11. If you have to get out, go to UPS or Fedex. Thats where you'll earn the big bucks. If you want to haul people, $90k flying a 190 is looking pretty good to me. Look at JetBlue's 190 rates. You really want to go there? And if I'm bringing the majors down, maybe it's a wake up call for them.
I don't post here much. But you guys need to wake up, and smell the coffee. You fly for a great airline. Ask anyone who was here pre BB.

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flyrr100
Junior Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Domicile: MCO
Equipment:
Posts: 8
What's wrong with wanting to make a cereer at a large regional carrier? I'd love to fly the 190. And I'll do it at our rates. I say again, look at Jet Blue. They are today's carrier. They have today's pay rates. The DC9 Captains you speak of are working on yesterday's rates. Why do you think US Airways and United are in bankrupcy? Why do you think Delta is on the brink? You have to wake up. We are in a new economy now. If we earned $100k flying here, Chautauqua wouldn't exist! We exist by giving our host carriers a good product at a good rate. If you don't belive this, look at Mesa. A lousey product but Delta are using them now. Because they are cheap.
You'll never earn the money that major carriers earn if you stay at Chautauqua. But for the guys looking for a career here, absolutely 190s belong at Chautauqua. If Delta or United want us to fly them, we should.
You have an education. You must know you are in the top 10% of the Nation's wage earners at Chautauqua. Try earning what you do here, and getting 18 days off a month, at Colgan, or even Mesa. Look at what you have instead of what you want.

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flyrr100
Junior Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Domicile: MCO
Equipment:
Posts: 8
One more thing. I care as much about a pilot at a major carrier as I care about a Wal-Mart greeter in Adilade Australia.
I'm a Chautauqua pilot. I care about my future. And 190s and even 777s should be in my future.
Why do you guys lose so much sleep worrying about the future of a US Airways pilot? After all, the chances you'll ever be a US Airways pilot, or even ever want to be a US Airways pilot are slim to none.

 

[miles otoole]

While I'm not a fan of regional payscales, I have to ask.....90K is NOT a lot of money? What the hell kinda f*cked up budget do you have?

No kidding-it's about double the median income in this country and about 50% MORE than the average family that has a house and pays for their kids college. And yep, new car too.

Let's see-90K or $60,000 net / 12 = $5,000 per month.

$2,000 for a mortgage
$500 for a car (all expenses)

That leaves $2,500 for the rest. Hard to imagine one couldn't have a high net worth after 20 years of this single income. Want to live like the millionare next door? Drive a previously owned car, have the spouse work (gosh forbid), don't buy a new boat, don't eat out every night, etc. Many Americans do it.

Funny thing is, go to the local Walmart and watch all of the $40K per year income families loading up the new Suburban (you know who they are.)
It seems the less someone makes, the more they feel entitled to buying new things.
I don't think regional pilots are entitled to fly the 190, but I do think they are entitled to much higher starting pay. Until the major airline pilots realize this and attempt to do something about it, the self serving attitudes will never disappear.

 

[surfnfly]

With the attitude that some of the people on this board have it won't suprise me to see the return of PFT by some CEO that can jingle the controls of a shinney new 170/190 for 70K. The attitude of well its the market and if I don't take it someone else will. There is something you can do refuse to fly them for crap wages don't let them on your property until pay rates are established. For all that say mainlines screwed up with RJ's. The public decided they did not want to fly in those prop puddle jumpers. The ones that screwed up were the regionals that first got RJ's. Everybody just wanted to fly a jet so they could go to a major sooner that they didn't really give a sh#t about rates because they would soon be moving on to bigger better jets. That IMOO was the start of the downfall of this once great profession. When I started out not that long ago my fisrt real flying job I earned a whopping 14,500 for an FO on a Metro but I was willing to pay my dues because airline Capts were making 300k+. Now we can be lucky to make half that. The threat of these bigger and bigger jets going to regionals is real and if the pilots that read these boards don't wake up this profession is doomed from the once great career it once was. But hey it's just all about me though right.