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What CHQ pilots really think!

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I'm sure that I'll soon be shouted down for saying this, but the whole "SJS" is a bit confusing to me. These younger, low time guys go to regionals and fly jets. It's an easy choice for them, because it's either a. keep instructing, or b. go to a regional. The pay is about the same, which is to say bad for the first year, but at least the new FOs won't have to PFT, and, unlike instructing, there is potential for better pay. It's a purely economic decision. The market will support what it will support.

And the SJS comes into play because some of the younger guys were expecting something different, and therefore have unmet expectations and become bitter and jaded. (Judging from some of the attitudes of my fellow instructors, I'd say that the SJS is already setting in.)

But then, you have older, more experienced guys accusing the younger guys of "dragging the profession down." Well, what are we supposed to do? Not accept job offers? Not interview? Quit our instructing jobs unless they pay us more? And all the while the older guys are biding their time so that they can jump ship and take a pay cut to go fly a bigger, shinier jet, thereby "dragging the profession down" themselves. Where does it stop?

Some people say that flying as a profession is not what it once was, and I think in many aspects, that's true. The glamour is gone, and the old pay rates cannot be supported in today's economy. But if one got in it to fly airplanes, then not much has changed except that there's more of it to go around. And what is so wrong about doing what you love and loving what you do as long as you can pay your bills? Honestly, there's nothing in my life that I want that I couldn't get with $90k/ year.

-Goose
 
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Goose Egg said:
I'm sure that I'll soon be shouted down for saying this, but the whole "SJS" is a bit confusing to me. These younger, low time guys go to regionals and fly jets. It's an easy choice for them, because it's either a. keep instructing, or b. go to a regional. The pay is about the same, which is to say bad for the first year, but at least the new FOs won't have to PFT, and, unlike instructing, there is potential for better pay. It's a purely economic decision. The market will support what it will support.

And the SJS comes into play because some of the younger guys were expecting something different, and therefore have unmet expectations and become bitter and jaded. (Judging from some of the attitudes of my fellow instructors, I'd say that the SJS is already setting in.)

But then, you have older, more experienced guys accusing the younger guys of "dragging the profession down." Well, what are we supposed to do? Not accept job offers? Not interview? Quit our instructing jobs unless they pay us more? And all the while the older guys are biding their time so that they can jump ship and take a pay cut to go fly a bigger, shinier jet, thereby "dragging the profession down" themselves. Where does it stop?

Some people say that flying as a profession is not what it once was, and I think in many aspects, that's true. The glamour is gone, and the old pay rates cannot be supported in today's economy. But if one got in it to fly airplanes, then not much has changed except that there's more of it to go around. And what is so wrong about doing what you love and loving what you do as long as you can pay your bills? Honestly, there's nothing in my life that I want that I couldn't get with $90k/ year.

-Goose

You must not want to buy a house, have kids, put kids through college, have new cars, etc. And you guys on this board get on MY back! This guys attitude is typical of todays up and coming regional pilots....$90K is a LOT of money! BS, $90K is NOT a lot of money. You will see that eventually regional pilots, but by then it will be too late as $90K is the most you will ever make! But it's your bed so you must lay in it now! Have fun!!!
 
410dude said:
You must not want to buy a house, have kids, put kids through college, have new cars, etc. And you guys on this board get on MY back! This guys attitude is typical of todays up and coming regional pilots....$90K is a LOT of money! BS, $90K is NOT a lot of money. You will see that eventually regional pilots, but by then it will be too late as $90K is the most you will ever make! But it's your bed so you must lay in it now! Have fun!!!

While I'm not a fan of regional payscales, I have to ask.....90K is NOT a lot of money? What the hell kinda f*cked up budget do you have?
 
chrisdahut24 said:
While I'm not a fan of regional payscales, I have to ask.....90K is NOT a lot of money? What the hell kinda f*cked up budget do you have?

Typical example of why this has become such a crap job. Thanks to you for not looking to the future. Enjoy that 90K a year 10 years from now when it will be worth the 25K a year you are making now.
 
410dude said:
You must not want to buy a house, have kids, put kids through college, have new cars, etc. And you guys on this board get on MY back! This guys attitude is typical of todays up and coming regional pilots....$90K is a LOT of money! BS, $90K is NOT a lot of money. You will see that eventually regional pilots, but by then it will be too late as $90K is the most you will ever make! But it's your bed so you must lay in it now! Have fun!!!

410dude, thanks for taking to time to bring this to our attention.

Is this FLAME (ER) bait ???
 
90k

Not to be a grinch, but the average income in the area I live, south central VA,
was a little over 27k per year. So 90k is still quit a bit of $ here.
 
chrisdahut24 said:
While I'm not a fan of regional payscales, I have to ask.....90K is NOT a lot of money? What the hell kinda f*cked up budget do you have?

I can see that you have no wife, kids, or thought of how you will fund your retirement.

Childcare is pricey if your wife works....if she does not, you are it for the money. (Kind of hard to have both work and raise kids when you are gone for a week at a time.)

Cars are 25 k a pop now for a cheaper model.

Houses are 130 to 140k in a lower middle class neighborhood in the smaller cities (cookie cutter houses with 50 just like yours in the neighborhood), 200k in the bigger cities.

Nice houses will run you 300k with no problem right now, how about in ten years?

College in 18 to 20 years? 100k easy and that is for a city college.....flight school or doctor? 500k easy if it continues to rise as it is now.


A few things to think about when you see those 90k RJ's.

90k is not squat when you have a family and kids. Your average highschool grad worker bee family can pull 65k between construction jobs and retail store employment. Find a couple in your neighborhood that fits that bill and see how well they are living.

edit: not that living on 65 k or evn 90k is bad......but did you really go to all that training and 4 year degree and work your way up through this industry to just live like your average joe? If so you should have saved your money and gone to a community college for welding or plumbing or some other similar job.
 
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More thoughts from CHQ pilots.
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flyrr100
Junior Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Domicile: MCO
Equipment:
Posts: 8
I'll bet the guys moaning about us killing the industry flying 190s are 23 year old academy grads who think the industry owes them everything. Wake up. You got into the industry using something that wasn't available five years ago. We all paid our dues flying night checks, flying 135 light twins, or flying for the military. That was after a few years flight instructing. I had 3500 hours when I was hired here and I was the lowest in my class. You flew a seminole for a few months and think you are owed a slot in a 757.
Don't get me wrong. I have no problem flying with low time Perdue or Delta Connection grads. You are all skilled and very professional. Just stop it with the 'I'm gonna be a 757 Captain before I'm old enough to rent a car' attitude. It's a new era after 9/11. If you have to get out, go to UPS or Fedex. Thats where you'll earn the big bucks. If you want to haul people, $90k flying a 190 is looking pretty good to me. Look at JetBlue's 190 rates. You really want to go there? And if I'm bringing the majors down, maybe it's a wake up call for them.
I don't post here much. But you guys need to wake up, and smell the coffee. You fly for a great airline. Ask anyone who was here pre BB.

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flyrr100
Junior Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Domicile: MCO
Equipment:
Posts: 8
What's wrong with wanting to make a cereer at a large regional carrier? I'd love to fly the 190. And I'll do it at our rates. I say again, look at Jet Blue. They are today's carrier. They have today's pay rates. The DC9 Captains you speak of are working on yesterday's rates. Why do you think US Airways and United are in bankrupcy? Why do you think Delta is on the brink? You have to wake up. We are in a new economy now. If we earned $100k flying here, Chautauqua wouldn't exist! We exist by giving our host carriers a good product at a good rate. If you don't belive this, look at Mesa. A lousey product but Delta are using them now. Because they are cheap.
You'll never earn the money that major carriers earn if you stay at Chautauqua. But for the guys looking for a career here, absolutely 190s belong at Chautauqua. If Delta or United want us to fly them, we should.
You have an education. You must know you are in the top 10% of the Nation's wage earners at Chautauqua. Try earning what you do here, and getting 18 days off a month, at Colgan, or even Mesa. Look at what you have instead of what you want.

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flyrr100
Junior Member

Registered: Jun 2004
Domicile: MCO
Equipment:
Posts: 8
One more thing. I care as much about a pilot at a major carrier as I care about a Wal-Mart greeter in Adilade Australia.
I'm a Chautauqua pilot. I care about my future. And 190s and even 777s should be in my future.
Why do you guys lose so much sleep worrying about the future of a US Airways pilot? After all, the chances you'll ever be a US Airways pilot, or even ever want to be a US Airways pilot are slim to none.
 
chrisdahut24 said:
While I'm not a fan of regional payscales, I have to ask.....90K is NOT a lot of money? What the hell kinda f*cked up budget do you have?
No kidding-it's about double the median income in this country and about 50% MORE than the average family that has a house and pays for their kids college. And yep, new car too.

Let's see-90K or $60,000 net / 12 = $5,000 per month.

$2,000 for a mortgage
$500 for a car (all expenses)

That leaves $2,500 for the rest. Hard to imagine one couldn't have a high net worth after 20 years of this single income. Want to live like the millionare next door? Drive a previously owned car, have the spouse work (gosh forbid), don't buy a new boat, don't eat out every night, etc. Many Americans do it.

Funny thing is, go to the local Walmart and watch all of the $40K per year income families loading up the new Suburban (you know who they are.)
It seems the less someone makes, the more they feel entitled to buying new things.
I don't think regional pilots are entitled to fly the 190, but I do think they are entitled to much higher starting pay. Until the major airline pilots realize this and attempt to do something about it, the self serving attitudes will never disappear.
 
With the attitude that some of the people on this board have it won't suprise me to see the return of PFT by some CEO that can jingle the controls of a shinney new 170/190 for 70K. The attitude of well its the market and if I don't take it someone else will. There is something you can do refuse to fly them for crap wages don't let them on your property until pay rates are established. For all that say mainlines screwed up with RJ's. The public decided they did not want to fly in those prop puddle jumpers. The ones that screwed up were the regionals that first got RJ's. Everybody just wanted to fly a jet so they could go to a major sooner that they didn't really give a sh#t about rates because they would soon be moving on to bigger better jets. That IMOO was the start of the downfall of this once great profession. When I started out not that long ago my fisrt real flying job I earned a whopping 14,500 for an FO on a Metro but I was willing to pay my dues because airline Capts were making 300k+. Now we can be lucky to make half that. The threat of these bigger and bigger jets going to regionals is real and if the pilots that read these boards don't wake up this profession is doomed from the once great career it once was. But hey it's just all about me though right.
 

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