What are the chances of AA hiring again?

[bayoubandit]

Projected Retirements for 2006 - 2026
Roster Data Updated on: Monday, November 06, 2006 YearTotal

11/9/2006 - 12/31/2006 40
01/01/2007 - 12/31/2007 281
01/01/2008 - 12/31/2008 402
01/01/2009 - 12/31/2009 405
01/01/2010 - 12/31/2010 363
01/01/2011 - 12/31/2011 318
01/01/2012 - 12/31/2012 312
01/01/2013 - 12/31/2013 388
01/01/2014 - 12/31/2014 477
01/01/2015 - 12/31/2015 571
01/01/2016 - 12/31/2016 629
01/01/2017 - 12/31/2017 682
01/01/2018 - 12/31/2018 733
01/01/2019 - 12/31/2019 733
01/01/2020 - 12/31/2020 744
01/01/2021 - 12/31/2021 718
01/01/2022 - 12/31/2022 595
01/01/2023 - 12/31/2023 503
01/01/2024 - 12/31/2024 479
01/01/2025 - 12/31/2025 412
01/01/2026 - 12/31/2026 442

 

[accinelli]

It is time to push for a change in the opposite direction. If AMR wants China Flying so bad, then they can negotiate our contract includling super long haul.

AAflyer

So basically you'd risk losing the China route to another airline. And then you'll whine about AA not recalling fast enough pilots.

 

[AA717driver]

So basically you'd risk losing the China route to another airline. And then you'll whine about AA not recalling fast enough pilots.

It's clear you don't understand the history (both recent and distant) of employee relations at AMR. Read up on it.TC

 

[freeflyer14]

How does the recall at AA work? Do you get a call and the opportunity to go back or bypass, then through the list one time and another last chance once it gets back to you?

 

[accinelli]

It's clear you don't understand the history (both recent and distant) of employee relations at AMR. Read up on it.TC

Why don't you do us all a favor and educate us on this history. Or do you want us to wait till AA loses the China Route and associated revenue.

 

[TWA Dude]

How does the recall at AA work? Do you get a call and the opportunity to go back or bypass, then through the list one time and another last chance once it gets back to you?

A certified letter arrives and your response is either to accept, refuse, or bypass. If you bypass you must advise of how long you intend to bypass, up to three years past the time the most junior pilot gets offered recall. From that point all you have to do is advise AA when you're ready to take recall and you'll be put into the next available class.

 

[80drvr]

So basically you'd risk losing the China route to another airline. And then you'll whine about AA not recalling fast enough pilots.

They're just going to pull aircraft off another route like they did with ORD-PVG and ORD DEL. They'll move up 767s and 757s to backfill and at the end of the day a few additional city pairs go to Eagle (PVD, PIT, ect.).

If that's how they want to operate the airline, that's their prerogative; but, there are some contractual changes that are essential if AMR wants to do this. Long story short, how would you feel about losing a 35 hour trip without pay due to MX, WX or schedules sending it to reserve due to a tight deadhead connection?

 

[Smoke Toliet]

Does anyone know how senior SFO is for AA?

 

[bayoubandit]

Hire date of around June '99.

 

[Vastly Underemp]

Hire date...June '99....that's funny...I was June '99 and I'm WAY down the furlough list...maybe the integration went the way it did so they could keep me out of SFO...yeah, that's the ticket (TO MY AA BRETHEREN, THIS WAS ALL VERY TONGUE IN CHEEK!)

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

They gotta recall about 3000 furloughees first. That should take at least 5 years.

Of course, then they will hire you and furlough you for 5+ years. LOL

Big Slick has got lots of good insight, but I agree 1/3 won't go back. Could be over 1/2 depending on how sick or healthy AA looks when they are called.

Imagine this, if you are one of the 1000 most junior furloughed you have probably been at another job for at least 4 years. You will likely be at that job another 3 years. It could be that NONE of the bottom 1000 come back while the top 1000 has an 80% come back rate.

The exception are the military folks who went back on active duty to get their 20 years. They may just slide back into the company after 7-10 years out.

Tons and Tons of these guys are at Airtran, SWA, FedEX, Alaska, NetJets, UPS and JetBlue. Life goes on.

I figure we will be in the full throw of another big industry downturn before AA starts hiring off the street again. But we might be back in another upswing as well.

Find a seat before the music stops for a year or more.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

When will AA start hiring again, that's simple! About the time I get my recall. Ahh the joys of being the junior guy!

I've done the DFW-EWR commute many years ago. It wasn't that bad back then either.

So, junior dude, what is your take on going back after another 3-5 years out??

 

[bayoubandit]

Don't know. I'm trying not to put the horse before the cart on this one. If I'm at my current job I will most likely go back. Of course it depends in what AA looks like at that time. If I am fortunate enough to land a FedEx, CAL, SWA type of job, so long AA.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Don't know. I'm trying not to put the horse before the cart on this one. If I'm at my current job I will most likely go back. Of course it depends in what AA looks like at that time. If I am fortunate enough to land a FedEx, CAL, SWA type of job, so long AA.

I wish you well. Keep looking for some old buds. They upgrading to Captain and check airman at those you mention above and may be able to help you out.

 

[AA717driver]

Why don't you do us all a favor and educate us on this history. Or do you want us to wait till AA loses the China Route and associated revenue.

If you're not on the list, you don't have a dog in this fight. If you are, you should already know the history.

But, I'll humor you: AMR signs a contract with APA. AMR then sets about willfully violating the contract hoping to establish "past practice". (Sidebar: APA is partially responsible for this--the Green Book is the most loosely-worded CBA in existance. Too much room for interpretation, IMO.) If APA gives ground on crew compliment or facilities for ultra-long-haul, it could establish past practice and be intrepreted and applied to regular long-haul flights, reducing crew and weakening the contract on crew rest facilities. Who knows what AMR will come up with?

Good faith bargaining means nothing to AMR. I give you the events leading up to Carty's exit (I was in attendance for his plea to APA for concessions and setting a 'new tone'.) and the PUP. TC

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

What do you guys have now for augment on longhaul and what are they asking for as far as crew compliment and crew rest? Isn't India considered super longhaul and what do they do? Unfortunately we at NWA gave up what I and many others considered the gold standard. Always a real capt.(not typed fo) in the left seat getting real capt. pay for doing the job of pic. Unfortunately I think we were the only US airline augmenting like this, so we lost it in our raping. So far we have adequate crew rest areas on the wide bodies but I believe the 757 will be a coach seat but would have to check the contract. I am sure the resident expert on all airlines ASSINELLI will chime in with his 2 cents about how the cockpit jumpseats should be sufficienct for crew rest on a 16 hr flt.

 

[glasspilot1]

Old story but I'll say it anyway!

At TWA we had a leg that was right on the edge of 12 hours (Cairo to JFK). Of course the company scheduled it for 11:59 to keep from needing a second relief pilot! In an attempt to keep the average time of that leg under 12 hours they flight planned us for .82. (Well above econ speed for a 767-300).

Of course that upped the fuel burn. So what did most Capts do? They want to save fuel! So back come the throttles. So most legs went over 12 hours. Then the FAA got on the co. for not having another "Eater" for this leg.

 

[aa73]

Old story but I'll say it anyway!

At TWA we had a leg that was right on the edge of 12 hours (Cairo to JFK). Of course the company scheduled it for 11:59 to keep from needing a second relief pilot! In an attempt to keep the average time of that leg under 12 hours they flight planned us for .82. (Well above econ speed for a 767-300).

Of course that upped the fuel burn. So what did most Capts do? They want to save fuel! So back come the throttles. So most legs went over 12 hours. Then the FAA got on the co. for not having another "Eater" for this leg.

AA did the same thing a couple of summers ago on DFW-HNL.... not only did they flight plan at .82, they flight planned at something like FL250!! All this to keep from having an FB ("eater" in TWAspeak.) Eventually that came to a halt as well.

Cobra, as far as what we do on super long haul, it is one CA and 3 FOs. DFW-Beijing would be the same, I suspect. I thought you NWA guys had 2 CAs and 2 FOs?

 

[accinelli]

What do you guys have now for augment on longhaul and what are they asking for as far as crew compliment and crew rest? Isn't India considered super longhaul and what do they do? Unfortunately we at NWA gave up what I and many others considered the gold standard. Always a real capt.(not typed fo) in the left seat getting real capt. pay for doing the job of pic. Unfortunately I think we were the only US airline augmenting like this, so we lost it in our raping. So far we have adequate crew rest areas on the wide bodies but I believe the 757 will be a coach seat but would have to check the contract. I am sure the resident expert on all airlines ASSINELLI will chime in with his 2 cents about how the cockpit jumpseats should be sufficienct for crew rest on a 16 hr flt.

Yeah -- NWA should have 2 relief captains on the 757s and the company should block 4 first class seats for them. Then block another 4 seats for the FAs -- god knows what value they add to the company. That still gives the company 12-16 business class seats to sell to the fare paying passengers. But then -- why can't the company make money?? Oh -- the fares must be too low!!

Get a life Cobra. A crew augument of FOs works just fine. Of course people like you will whine when you have to "earn" your money as it violates your sense of "entitlement." The gold standard was nothing but full pay for half the work (in many cases a complete joyride for the second captain).

 

[accinelli]

If you're not on the list, you don't have a dog in this fight. If you are, you should already know the history.

But, I'll humor you: AMR signs a contract with APA. AMR then sets about willfully violating the contract hoping to establish "past practice". (Sidebar: APA is partially responsible for this--the Green Book is the most loosely-worded CBA in existance. Too much room for interpretation, IMO.) If APA gives ground on crew compliment or facilities for ultra-long-haul, it could establish past practice and be intrepreted and applied to regular long-haul flights, reducing crew and weakening the contract on crew rest facilities. Who knows what AMR will come up with?

Good faith bargaining means nothing to AMR. I give you the events leading up to Carty's exit (I was in attendance for his plea to APA for concessions and setting a 'new tone'.) and the PUP. TC

Well at least you admit that the APA is responsible as well. Carty is gone. Give the new guy a chance. And keep it behind closed doors. AA or any other airline losing routes like this comes back to hurt the pilots -- not management.