What A Freaking Shock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FN FAL]

........

========

 

[Networ-King]

Guess what GENIUS? Delta is in BANKRUPTCY. We are. You are in denial buddy. It is hard to NOT think of getting a second pay cut, since the first just got rid of our huge pay raise (which I enjoyed probably a year longer than most analysts thought we should). That is the way it goes when your airline is in the crapper. You have got to hope that things turn around gas wise and we get some better management---Whitehurst will likely take over and he seems to have some vision.

Bankruptcy? Delta? No..... say it aint so general. You sound like EG on the dalpa boards flighting with everybody. And if you think its only a second pay cut that you'll have to swallow then wait till march when dalpa negotiates LOA 51. But since all the new senior guys/gals are making good money with the vast amount of greenslips (opentime flying) I can see why this TA would pass. Just watch by how much the greenslipping increases in the near future.

You guys at UPS really HAVE NO REASON TO NOT STRIKE, since you are at a company making huge PROFITS (what we don't do), and they still won't give you a larger piece. What is the first year pay over there? I admit, I would love to be there, but really, why is it so low? Will that change? It should.

UUUMMMM......oh bright one.... what part of the first sentence of the first post did you not understand. The NMB refused to release the IPA. At least I can say with all honesty that I'm glad to be a part of a solid union and not the POS you call a union.

So, MR Brown Stain, you need to look at apples and oranges. We are not in the same position you are, and we are doing better than most while they were in court.

More "KOOL-AID" general???????????

How is that FN FAL???? Don't want to offend the grammer police.

We are taking them to task on several points that will save us some cash, but that is about all we can do-----with the shape we are in now. We have lost $11 BILLION in 5 years. We owe $10.6 billion in pension obligations. You are the retard for not seeing the difference.


Bye Bye--General Lee

As for the rest on this board that read my rants from last night, my apologies. Thats what happens when you are bored and then decide to mix in the alcohol and then grab a computer. I have no ill will against Delta airlines as a whole, just the greedy pilots that keep stabbing the furloughees in the back.


General....

as for your stain comment? Just wait till LOA 51 sometime by march. Me thinks you'll be staining your own shorts plenty flying that 100 seater after 12 years making 88 dollars an hour. And 5827 Posts????? wow...


Ty....

Thats the first time I've seen you defend the general and the delta pilots. Wow.... bravo...

I have not been successfull at giving my wife away as of yet, but I'll give the delta pilot group a try.

ps. Say hello to your mom for me.

 

[ivauir]

Maybe if you had gotten the contractions, "You're" or "I'm" correct on your resume, yore paychecks would have sed FedEx on them instead.

However, I do see where you might be a little overqualified for Dewey, Huey and Louie, as you got "you'll" and "you've" correct.

In addition, you missed the hypnenation of the product brand name "Kool-Aid" .

Maybe you should proof read your own posts.

 

[FN FAL]

Maybe you should proof read your own posts.

I was chumming for suckers and you bit. :laugh:

 

[hoya saxa]

Maybe you should proof read your own posts.

Hello ivauir, I'm irony! Have we met?

 

[FN FAL]

Hello ivauir, I'm irony! Have we met?

Heheheheh.

 

[capt. megadeth]

DAL got off relatively light this time around. Just remember one thing: just because you signed a deal today doesn't mean Mgt. won't be back tomorrow to ask for more.

Each pilot needs to decide what their "bottom" is and when they've hit it. I've hit mine. 8th year B737 FO at $73/hr, should be B737 CA still at $148/hr. I'm sick of the incompetence and lies.
.

Oh, you know they will. They all have you by the ba!!s and they know if you turn down a TA, they will just keep coming at you with the concessions increasing each time. Then they throw in the "we will shut down" blackmail all the while building their next 3 million dollar house.

 

[General Lee]

Did anyone in their wildest imaginations think that DALPA was going to "stand tall?"

Simply put, as a institution, DALPA decisions are, in no small measure, why the commercial pilot population in the U.S. is in the situation it finds itself in. This is no slam on the individual pilot; most of the ones most directly effected weren't on the seniority list when DALPA made it precedent setting decisions. However, the rise of the RJ can be laid at their feet, as can the repercussions of DALPA helping to throw the TW, Eastern, PA and Braniff guys under the bus.

So thanks DALPA, for allowing contract pilots now into the mix. That camel ain't getting out of the tent either.

A pox on your house like you diseased mine.

Thank gawd Dalpa brought the pay scale bar up higher than anyone else EVER. Yeah, Dalpa has only done bad things for this industry.......RIIIIIIGHT.
When you are backed in a corner and your company is tanking, it is tough to keep anything.

And, contract pilots? You have no clue what you are talking about. Our contract allowed pilots to retire with only 24 hours notice. 24 hours notice. If you have 400 guys leave on one day (last day of the month), and they were all senior flying 777s or 764s, you would have to park the fleets. No captains equals no flying. So, we allowed pilots to stay for a few months to train replacements, allowing for our planes to keep flying and keep the revenue coming in. That was Dalpa and the contract, not the company doing that. That allowed the senior guys to get as much as they could for the lump sum, knowing that the rest would be gone in a flash. Ask the NW or USAir guys how they feel about that? They probably wish they had the same deal. (NW guys will probably lose their full pensions too, with no lump sum pay out) But, at the same time, it would have been terrible for the fleets to allow 400 guys to give one day notice. Allowing guys to stay a few extra months solved the problems, for us and the company.

Makes sense, doesn't it? Yes, yes it does.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Oh, you know they will. They all have you by the ba!!s and they know if you turn down a TA, they will just keep coming at you with the concessions increasing each time. Then they throw in the "we will shut down" blackmail all the while building their next 3 million dollar house.

You don't know that. Sure, everyone thinks that, but the judge still is at the helm, and she was told many many times that they really needed $325 million. She told them a couple times that she thought the pilots shouldn't give them anything. So, to go back and ask the judge for more will put them in the line of fire. She is looking out for the creditors no doubt, but we will likely fullfill the $325 million requirement when we get credit (from the judge) for a future dumping of the pension plan. That savings, plus our new pay cut, will come very close to that amount.

The wildcard is the judge, and she has not been very nice to management in the end. And, I think one more asking will push that no vote over the edge. We have NEVER had a vote that close. (usually in the 80% range) This was pretty close.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Network-King,

Well, I don't go to the Dalpa board too much, too many hot heads on that board. As far as the 100 seat rate, we are also fighting for the 79 seaters. I am sure that the rates will be low, but that wasn't our fault, rather Jetblue management (no union there). That has really set the bar, NOT US. I probably won't be flying the 100 seater (MD88 Capt may be next for me), but I am sure many will and will be happy to. You have to get the aircraft first and then work for the rates. Our furloughed pilots that aren't flying would love to come over and fly again, and maybe we can hire again someday into those planes too.

I can see that you are upset, but sometimes you have to look at the options, and we did lower the amount Delta wanted and still have the chance to fight for other things. We are in bankruptcy----the first time ever for Delta, and it is not easy to fight when you are cornered. We have done ok so far, and we will either get a fair (not slanted towards us only---can't happen in Chap 11) deal or we do shut it down. It was close, and that is the key----for both ALPA negotiators and for the company. Go fly your UPS 757 and work on your own future.


And, I do have a lot of posts. I have been on this board for years, and I enjoy the debate. I still do other things in my spare time, but when I get on here I usually give plenty of responses. I enjoy it. You need to find something you enjoy and not always complain. Play the lotto and get out of this industry.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AA717driver]

I was chumming for suckers and you bit. :laugh:

LMAO! TC

 

[capt. megadeth]

You don't know that.



Bye Bye--General Lee

Ok, let's make a bet. If they don't ask for any more, I will give you my next paycheck. If they ask for more, you give me your next paycheck. Whaddya think?

 

[AceCrackshot]

GL-

Considering you conceded the fact that DALPA allowed for the gutting of pilot labor by allowing RJs in the first place, and the fact that DALPA helped to throw "brother" pilot groups under the bus during and immediately after deregulation, (read up on Carl Icahn and Mother D's bidding war for PanAm, and its effect on the pilots.)

I'll go ahead and answer your response to DALPA allowing contract pilots. Its called PRECEDENT. Its the same attitude demonstrated throughout the history of DALPA. If its good for us, then why are you whinging? I understand the situation. I have an uncle who is one of the contract guys. And I know it was a matter of getting the poor, distressed senior guys a little extra for the second wife and her kids.

In the meantime, when my future employer gets in a training lurch, I'm sure my management will forget the little precedent your senior made, and negotiate with us in good faith. If you can't see that the threat of shutdown was the only leverage you had pre bankruptcy, I'm probably not the guy you can convince you.

And read up on the history of DALPA from the outside. We'll be cleaning their mess for years. The COBRA payments, General, are just piddling blood money.

 

[IB6 UB9]

"Thank gawd"

Thank gawd Dalpa brought the pay scale bar up higher than anyone else EVER. Yeah, Dalpa has only done bad things for this industry.......RIIIIIIGHT.

Let me get this straight, in your current state you are actually gloating about raising the bar? And blaming us two posts later for lowering it? We have 80 airlplanes and somewhere between 1-2% of the domestic traffic in this country. You are bankrupt, voting for paycuts, have pilots on furlough and have pilots greenslipping shamelessly. "Thank gawd" for you, for you and your fellow employees making this such a better industry for we who bring it down. "Thank gawd" we are so privledged to share the sky for you. I will definitely in the future request a lower altitude so you can pass over me without a vector. "Thank gawd" you are closing in on 6000 posts of sensible and intelligent reason so you can educate my kind, the ones that strive so hard to bring this industry down for the likes of you. I "Thank gawd" General, that I have a vision of you, you proud soldier of aviation, hell bent on making this a better place for me to go to work.

 

[General Lee]

Let me get this straight, in your current state you are actually gloating about raising the bar? And blaming us two posts later for lowering it? We have 80 airlplanes and somewhere between 1-2% of the domestic traffic in this country. You are bankrupt, voting for paycuts, have pilots on furlough and have pilots greenslipping shamelessly. "Thank gawd" for you, for you and your fellow employees making this such a better industry for we who bring it down. "Thank gawd" we are so privledged to share the sky for you. I will definitely in the future request a lower altitude so you can pass over me without a vector. "Thank gawd" you are closing in on 6000 posts of sensible and intelligent reason so you can educate my kind, the ones that strive so hard to bring this industry down for the likes of you. I "Thank gawd" General, that I have a vision of you, you proud soldier of aviation, hell bent on making this a better place for me to go to work.

Here you go again, giving low blows. We DID raise the bar to the highest it has EVER been, and then we became a target. If you think our pay alone sunk us, try to remember the part (even the judge brought this up) about Delta buying $2 billion in stock just prior to 9-11, and then it vaporizing. (I was the one who approved that one......) What about selling the fuel hedges? I approved that one too.

And, I didn't slam you guys, rather your management. They are the ones who approved your 100 seat rates. Since you do not have a union or a voice, it really couldn't be stopped by you. That rate is now the benchmark for every new 100 seat rate, and any rate for planes smaller than 100 seats. Managements all around the US jumped up and down and high fived each other when they saw those rates. That wasn't your fault, though.

So, our group really did set the bar to the highest it has ever been, and now we are falling. If you want to make fun of us some more, go ahead chief.


You don't like the "Thank Gawd" saying? Hmmmm. Oh well.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

GL-

Considering you conceded the fact that DALPA allowed for the gutting of pilot labor by allowing RJs in the first place, and the fact that DALPA helped to throw "brother" pilot groups under the bus during and immediately after deregulation, (read up on Carl Icahn and Mother D's bidding war for PanAm, and its effect on the pilots.)

I'll go ahead and answer your response to DALPA allowing contract pilots. Its called PRECEDENT. Its the same attitude demonstrated throughout the history of DALPA. If its good for us, then why are you whinging? I understand the situation. I have an uncle who is one of the contract guys. And I know it was a matter of getting the poor, distressed senior guys a little extra for the second wife and her kids.

In the meantime, when my future employer gets in a training lurch, I'm sure my management will forget the little precedent your senior made, and negotiate with us in good faith. If you can't see that the threat of shutdown was the only leverage you had pre bankruptcy, I'm probably not the guy you can convince you.

And read up on the history of DALPA from the outside. We'll be cleaning their mess for years. The COBRA payments, General, are just piddling blood money.

General,

I know Delta better than you think and I see much in the post above that is correct.

Don't confuse the senior DALPA guys quest for millionaire status with "raising the bar". It's called cashing in. I don't blame them for it since it seems to be the American way. But facts are facts. Management and pilots took their cash and left a shell of a company. You have been left to pick up the pieces. "Good Luck, we are all counting on you"


Hopefully it will not happen at SWA.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

It's an interview board, so here is the lesson.

Look at the senior dudes at the company you apply to or currently work for. What is their agenda? What will their retirement or negotiation position for retirement benefits do to the company the next 5-10 years? Relative to competitors, of course.

Always look at the company like an investor, not like a contractor.

Yeah, I know, it is too hard to figure out and there are too many variables. Make a guess and go with your estimate if you feel it's important not to be changing jobs at age 45+.

 

[General Lee]

General,

I know Delta better than you think and I see much in the post above that is correct.

Don't confuse the senior DALPA guys quest for millionare status with "raising the bar". It's called cashing in. I don't blame them for it since it seems to be the American way. But facts are facts. Management and pilots took their cash and left a shell of a company. You have been left to pick up the pieces. "Good Luck, we are all counting on you"


Hopefully it will not happen at SWA.

Sure, some senior guys left with a boat load of money, just like management. Most of that pension money was already in a seperate fund, not coming directly from the Delta coffers. That didn't cause the large losses, and most of those guys had worked for Delta for more than 20 years, and got half of their "promised" pension. Leo Mullin worked for 3-4 years and got $16 million.

Yes, I am left to pick up the pieces. That is the way it goes, but not all of that was done by Dalpa. Sure, there have been mistakes made, but most by management and their decisions. Even the judge agrees with that. What do you think Dalpa should have done here? Gone for it? Had we voted it down there would surely have been an 1113 process (since we failed to negotiate a deal) and then we would have either struck and liquidated the place, or kept flying with no contract and any pay cut the company wanted. The latter also would have thrown out our fragmentation and merger protection, and we would have left us sitting ducks. Instead, we got less of a pay cut, and time to negotiate with the judge watching, and we got the company to have to give us credit for a possible and likely pension dump, which will help us bridge the gap for the full $325 million in savings a year. It was just "prudent." Will we go for another round of cuts? Doubtful, since this one barely passed. We shall see.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AA717driver]

Sorry, GL, I disagree. The Delta pilot group will continue to go for pay cuts because there is no alternative. A captain can vote yes or take a cut from $100k/yr. to $26k at "the job of a lifetime" at UPS.

History confirms this. You are along for the ride, unfortunately.TC

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I wish I had a crystal ball, but here is what I see without one.

I see guaranteed feed from ASA, Comair and mainline for some profitable international routes. That may save the day. Some good Hub to Hub flying too. But I'm really hoping the employees don't just fall apart. I know some are bailing but many are staying. Those coming to SWA are tired of the bad scene at Delta.

Everything is cyclic. With furloughes and BK things will look gloomy as management gets more and more from you. But the reason is not just to save cash.

When Delta is ready to hire new employees again they want to look like the good guys and offer steady improvements in pay and benefits. Oddly, the cuts now will set a new "benchmark" that will see steady improvements and make new employees "happy". So the management theory goes.

I have no opinion on your passing of the TA. This lowering of the bar stuff is all good theory, but when it is your family on the line, I vote to feed and clothe the kids.