What A Freaking Shock!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Networ-King]

The IPA just got notice that they've been turned down by the NMB for a release and the douche bag delta pukes passed the TA by 58%. Oh yeah, and the United management f%$ks still get their bonuses.

gotta love this industry ehh?

 

[av8n]

It is a shame. The IPA has been negotiating/mediating for almost 4 yrs and still no release. It goes to show whose pocket the NMB is in.

I was just suprised that the DAL TA didn't pass by at LEAST 70% - knowing the guys on the property.

 

[General Lee]

The IPA just got notice that they've been turned down by the NMB for a release and the douche bag delta pukes passed the TA by 58%. Oh yeah, and the United management f%$ks still get their bonuses.

gotta love this industry ehh?

Thanks for all of your support. There may be a method to our madness, but you are removed now, and you really need to be looking at your own situation. The 58% pass was a good sign to management that not everyone is willing to fold, and certainly not again. There were reasons to pass this, and it doesn't concern you anymore. Have fun.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[capt. megadeth]

The IPA just got notice that they've been turned down by the NMB for a release and the douche bag delta pukes passed the TA by 58%. Oh yeah, and the United management f%$ks still get their bonuses.

gotta love this industry ehh?

NO!!!!!!! Is UPS greasing their palms or something?
How disappointing.

 

[Networ-King]

Thanks for all of your support. There may be a method to our madness, but you are removed now, and you really need to be looking at your own situation. The 58% pass was a good sign to management that not everyone is willing to fold, and certainly not again. There were reasons to pass this, and it doesn't concern you anymore. Have fun.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General.....

You know.... sometimes I can see your point of view and learn to agree with you because being optomistic is positive, but you've been nothing, but a stupid koolaid drinker from day one and you've never actually looked at the facts. YOUR IN DENIAL MAN, get over it. You've been optomistic for the last 4 freaking years. Being positive about your company is one thing, but after the a$$ pounding that you've taken in the last 4 years its time to get your head out of your a$$ man. Get real for once...Im crossing my fingers and hoping that things will work out at big brown, but Im not holding my breath. Im being cautiously optomistic.... hoping for the best and assuming the worst. Wait till march and you'll see HOW DALPA will "SAVE" your compensation. Reality sucks man I know, but sooner or later your gonna have to crawl out from underneath that rock. Like you say ALL THE FREAKING TIME "Time will tell"...

Please enlighten us how DALPA is going to save the world again or management is going to come up with yet another Delta saving plan called douchebag airlines with you as the captain in a pink skirt dancing on water and the caption saying.... "Douche Bag Airlines.... the fresh new start"


bring it you koolaid drinking retard

 

[Ty Webb]

If you have something intelligent to say about what is going on at Delta, you sure haven't articulated it . . . but, while you're trying to, please leave my name out of it.

The vast majority of AirTran pilots know that Delta's problems are not a good thing for our pilots, and we are sure as hell not rejoicing about it, like you seem to be.

What's the matter, did some Delta pilot steal your old lady . . . again?

 

[General Lee]

General.....

You know.... sometimes I can see your point of view and learn to agree with you because being optomistic is positive, but you've been nothing, but a stupid koolaid drinker from day one and you've never actually looked at the facts. YOUR IN DENIAL MAN, ge over it. You've been optomistic for the last 4 freaking years. Being positive about your company is one thing, but after the a$$ pounding that you've taken in the last 4 years its time to get your head out of your a$$ man. Get real for once...
Im crossing my fingers and hoping that things will work out at big brown, but Im not holding my breath. Im being cautiously optomistic.... hoping for the best and assuming the worst. Wait till march and you'll see HOW DALPA will "SAVE" your compensation. Reality sucks man I know, but sooner or later your gonna have to crawl out from underneath that rock. Like you say ALL THE FREAKING TIME "Time will tell"...

Please enlighten us how DALPA is going to save the world again or management is going to come up with yet another Delta saving plan called douchebag airlines with you as the captain in a pink skirt dancing on water and the caption saying.... "Douche Bag Airlines.... the fresh new start"


bring it you koolaid drinking retard

Wow. If you wanted to become rich, you should have studied a bit more and gone to get your MBA at Wharton and gotten hired at management. But, you did not.

Guess what GENIUS? Delta is in BANKRUPTCY. We are. You are in denial buddy. It is hard to NOT think of getting a second pay cut, since the first just got rid of our huge pay raise (which I enjoyed probably a year longer than most analysts thought we should). That is the way it goes when your airline is in the crapper. You have got to hope that things turn around gas wise and we get some better management---Whitehurst will likely take over and he seems to have some vision.

You guys at UPS really HAVE NO REASON TO NOT STRIKE, since you are at a company making huge PROFITS (what we don't do), and they still won't give you a larger piece. What is the first year pay over there? I admit, I would love to be there, but really, why is it so low? Will that change? It should.

So, MR Brown Stain, you need to look at apples and oranges. We are not in the same position you are, and we are doing better than most while they were in court. We are taking them to task on several points that will save us some cash, but that is about all we can do-----with the shape we are in now. We have lost $11 BILLION in 5 years. We owe $10.6 billion in pension obligations. You are the retard for not seeing the difference.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Networ-King,
I am very surprised, why are you so angry with the Delta Guys? I might be uneducated on this, but I think they (DALPA) are doing the best that they can considering the fact that everyone and everything is against them right now. No one enjoys pay cuts or give backs, but in light of all the other precidence that have been set in the industry in the past 3 years, id say DALPA got a deal, maybe not a great deal, but atleast its a deal.

Hell, we at the IPA are getting slammed in the face with the same kind of discriminatory/bias Bullsh1t from the NMB, and our company is making Billions every Qtr.

I can understand you being offended with DALPA because of the "precieved" caving in, in regards to the state of our profession. What worries me the most is that your comments come off as being mostly gleeful about their situation. I dont think you meant that, but I kinda felt that was how it was presented...

How about cutting them some slack.

Maybe I misinterpetied your position, hell, I dont know...

Good Luck Delta, I know Most everyone here at UPS understands your situation and we support you and the difficult decisions that you all have had to make simply to survive in the post 9/11 airline union bashing free for all...

 

[PHXFLYR]

general,
How can you even think that a 58 percent pass sends a good signal to management that most of you guys won't fold. To send the kind of signal to mgmt that you talk about,you need a pass rate of 65-70 percent. All your 58 percent shows is that you have a pilot group that is uncomfortably close to being pretty much divided.


PHXFLYR

 

[Clyde]

You guys at UPS really HAVE NO REASON TO NOT STRIKE, since you are at a company making huge PROFITS (what we don't do), and they still won't give you a larger piece. What is the first year pay over there? I admit, I would love to be there, but really, why is it so low? Will that change? It should.

So, MR Brown Stain, you need to look at apples and oranges. We are not in the same position you are, and we are doing better than most while they were in court. We are taking them to task on several points that will save us some cash, but that is about all we can do-----with the shape we are in now. We have lost $11 BILLION in 5 years. We owe $10.6 billion in pension obligations. You are the retard for not seeing the difference.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

Networking is in his own league. The vast majority of us here at Brown wish you guys and gals at Delta the best of luck, and hope you can pull through. He seems to have hijacked his own thread. I didn't think that was too probable around here.

 

[AA717driver]

Look, Delta didn't have a choice. These days, with the 1113 sword hanging over your head, you take the best deal you can get, keep your company in business and hope you can fight again another day.

Like I've said before, the airline employees cannot regain leverage with the current representational structure. ALPA is done at the pax carriers. It will take everyone hitting bottom (they're close) and rebuilding a union to represent ALL airline pilots--recognizing that ALL airline pilots require the same level of representation regardless of who they work for or the relative health of their respective company.

Pilots have to get over this notion of the haves v. have nots. That is what ALLOWED PAA, EAL, BN and TWA to be cut off from the herd and eliminated. Now those who allowed that are being cut down.

That cannot be allowed to happen in the future. Good luck.TC

 

[Brown Cow]

I just read that on the same day that the NMB did NOT release the IPA and UPS, they released World Airways and their pilots. Typical political bs. "We should make both life-changing decisions today, so that we don't have to do anything for the rest of the week."

 

[Huck]

Like I've said before, the airline employees cannot regain leverage with the current representational structure. ALPA is done at the pax carriers. It will take everyone hitting bottom (they're close) and rebuilding a union to represent ALL airline pilots--recognizing that ALL airline pilots require the same level of representation regardless of who they work for or the relative health of their respective company.

Pilots have to get over this notion of the haves v. have nots. That is what ALLOWED PAA, EAL, BN and TWA to be cut off from the herd and eliminated. Now those who allowed that are being cut down.

That cannot be allowed to happen in the future.

Best post I've seen on this board in quite a while....

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Yup, 'fraid so.

 

[SkyWench]

how sad that out of 6000 pilots, only 5166 voted. Should have been all pilots voting, then maybe they would have voted it down. I actually think no vote is counted as a no vote. Wimps!

 

[General Lee]

My "Brown Stain" comment was ONLY directed at Networ-King, NOT the UPS pilots in general. I have never had a problem with anyone else at UPS, and I think you guys have a good chance of increasing your pay and benefits in the future, which is good for all of us. We tried the same with our C2K contract, and then things got bad starting with 9-11.

The current TA is a bitter pill, but it is better right now than the alternative. We gained a bit on what they were initially asking for, and have a chance to save more before this is over, compared to a full 1113 anyway. We still have scope and other rules that so far haven't been touched, and we are fighting to keep them.


PHXFlyr,

58% shows ALPA and management that it wouldn't take much more to sway that vote to 49% against. It wasn't a 90% vote FOR like most in the past. I think there is a lot of discontent, and many were really close to voting it down.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[HalinTexas]

DAL got off relatively light this time around. Just remember one thing: just because you signed a deal today doesn't mean Mgt. won't be back tomorrow to ask for more.

Each pilot needs to decide what their "bottom" is and when they've hit it. I've hit mine. 8th year B737 FO at $73/hr, should be B737 CA still at $148/hr. I'm sick of the incompetence and lies.

Good luck, DAL & NWA, we're all counting on you.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Did anyone in their wildest imaginations think that DALPA was going to "stand tall?"

Simply put, as a institution, DALPA decisions are, in no small measure, why the commercial pilot population in the U.S. is in the situation it finds itself in. This is no slam on the individual pilot; most of the ones most directly effected weren't on the seniority list when DALPA made it precedent setting decisions. However, the rise of the RJ can be laid at their feet, as can the repercussions of DALPA helping to throw the TW, Eastern, PA and Braniff guys under the bus.

So thanks DALPA, for allowing contract pilots now into the mix. That camel ain't getting out of the tent either.

A pox on your house like you diseased mine.

 

[FN FAL]

General.....

...YOUR IN DENIAL MAN, get over it.

...You've been optomistic

...you've taken

...Im being cautiously optomistic

...Wait till march and you'll see

...but sooner or later your gonna have to crawl

...bring it you koolaid drinking retard

Maybe if you had gotten the contractions, "You're" or "I'm" correct on your resume, yore paychecks would have sed FedEx on them instead.

However, I do see where you might be a little overqualified for Dewey, Huey and Louie, as you got "you'll" and "you've" correct.

In addition, you missed the hypnenation of the product brand name "Kool-Aid" .

 

[IB6 UB9]

Maybe if you had gotten the contractions, "You're" or "I'm" correct on your resume, yore paychecks would have sed FedEx on them instead.

However, I do see where you might be a little overqualified for Dewey, Huey and Louie, as you got "you'll" and "you've" correct.

In addition, you missed the hypnenation of the product brand name "Kool-Aid" .

........

 

[FN FAL]

........

========

 

[Networ-King]

Guess what GENIUS? Delta is in BANKRUPTCY. We are. You are in denial buddy. It is hard to NOT think of getting a second pay cut, since the first just got rid of our huge pay raise (which I enjoyed probably a year longer than most analysts thought we should). That is the way it goes when your airline is in the crapper. You have got to hope that things turn around gas wise and we get some better management---Whitehurst will likely take over and he seems to have some vision.

Bankruptcy? Delta? No..... say it aint so general. You sound like EG on the dalpa boards flighting with everybody. And if you think its only a second pay cut that you'll have to swallow then wait till march when dalpa negotiates LOA 51. But since all the new senior guys/gals are making good money with the vast amount of greenslips (opentime flying) I can see why this TA would pass. Just watch by how much the greenslipping increases in the near future.

You guys at UPS really HAVE NO REASON TO NOT STRIKE, since you are at a company making huge PROFITS (what we don't do), and they still won't give you a larger piece. What is the first year pay over there? I admit, I would love to be there, but really, why is it so low? Will that change? It should.

UUUMMMM......oh bright one.... what part of the first sentence of the first post did you not understand. The NMB refused to release the IPA. At least I can say with all honesty that I'm glad to be a part of a solid union and not the POS you call a union.

So, MR Brown Stain, you need to look at apples and oranges. We are not in the same position you are, and we are doing better than most while they were in court.

More "KOOL-AID" general???????????

How is that FN FAL???? Don't want to offend the grammer police.

We are taking them to task on several points that will save us some cash, but that is about all we can do-----with the shape we are in now. We have lost $11 BILLION in 5 years. We owe $10.6 billion in pension obligations. You are the retard for not seeing the difference.


Bye Bye--General Lee

As for the rest on this board that read my rants from last night, my apologies. Thats what happens when you are bored and then decide to mix in the alcohol and then grab a computer. I have no ill will against Delta airlines as a whole, just the greedy pilots that keep stabbing the furloughees in the back.


General....

as for your stain comment? Just wait till LOA 51 sometime by march. Me thinks you'll be staining your own shorts plenty flying that 100 seater after 12 years making 88 dollars an hour. And 5827 Posts????? wow...


Ty....

Thats the first time I've seen you defend the general and the delta pilots. Wow.... bravo...

I have not been successfull at giving my wife away as of yet, but I'll give the delta pilot group a try.

ps. Say hello to your mom for me.

 

[ivauir]

Maybe if you had gotten the contractions, "You're" or "I'm" correct on your resume, yore paychecks would have sed FedEx on them instead.

However, I do see where you might be a little overqualified for Dewey, Huey and Louie, as you got "you'll" and "you've" correct.

In addition, you missed the hypnenation of the product brand name "Kool-Aid" .

Maybe you should proof read your own posts.

 

[FN FAL]

Maybe you should proof read your own posts.

I was chumming for suckers and you bit. :laugh:

 

[hoya saxa]

Maybe you should proof read your own posts.

Hello ivauir, I'm irony! Have we met?

 

[FN FAL]

Hello ivauir, I'm irony! Have we met?

Heheheheh.

 

[capt. megadeth]

DAL got off relatively light this time around. Just remember one thing: just because you signed a deal today doesn't mean Mgt. won't be back tomorrow to ask for more.

Each pilot needs to decide what their "bottom" is and when they've hit it. I've hit mine. 8th year B737 FO at $73/hr, should be B737 CA still at $148/hr. I'm sick of the incompetence and lies.
.

Oh, you know they will. They all have you by the ba!!s and they know if you turn down a TA, they will just keep coming at you with the concessions increasing each time. Then they throw in the "we will shut down" blackmail all the while building their next 3 million dollar house.

 

[General Lee]

Did anyone in their wildest imaginations think that DALPA was going to "stand tall?"

Simply put, as a institution, DALPA decisions are, in no small measure, why the commercial pilot population in the U.S. is in the situation it finds itself in. This is no slam on the individual pilot; most of the ones most directly effected weren't on the seniority list when DALPA made it precedent setting decisions. However, the rise of the RJ can be laid at their feet, as can the repercussions of DALPA helping to throw the TW, Eastern, PA and Braniff guys under the bus.

So thanks DALPA, for allowing contract pilots now into the mix. That camel ain't getting out of the tent either.

A pox on your house like you diseased mine.

Thank gawd Dalpa brought the pay scale bar up higher than anyone else EVER. Yeah, Dalpa has only done bad things for this industry.......RIIIIIIGHT.
When you are backed in a corner and your company is tanking, it is tough to keep anything.

And, contract pilots? You have no clue what you are talking about. Our contract allowed pilots to retire with only 24 hours notice. 24 hours notice. If you have 400 guys leave on one day (last day of the month), and they were all senior flying 777s or 764s, you would have to park the fleets. No captains equals no flying. So, we allowed pilots to stay for a few months to train replacements, allowing for our planes to keep flying and keep the revenue coming in. That was Dalpa and the contract, not the company doing that. That allowed the senior guys to get as much as they could for the lump sum, knowing that the rest would be gone in a flash. Ask the NW or USAir guys how they feel about that? They probably wish they had the same deal. (NW guys will probably lose their full pensions too, with no lump sum pay out) But, at the same time, it would have been terrible for the fleets to allow 400 guys to give one day notice. Allowing guys to stay a few extra months solved the problems, for us and the company.

Makes sense, doesn't it? Yes, yes it does.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Oh, you know they will. They all have you by the ba!!s and they know if you turn down a TA, they will just keep coming at you with the concessions increasing each time. Then they throw in the "we will shut down" blackmail all the while building their next 3 million dollar house.

You don't know that. Sure, everyone thinks that, but the judge still is at the helm, and she was told many many times that they really needed $325 million. She told them a couple times that she thought the pilots shouldn't give them anything. So, to go back and ask the judge for more will put them in the line of fire. She is looking out for the creditors no doubt, but we will likely fullfill the $325 million requirement when we get credit (from the judge) for a future dumping of the pension plan. That savings, plus our new pay cut, will come very close to that amount.

The wildcard is the judge, and she has not been very nice to management in the end. And, I think one more asking will push that no vote over the edge. We have NEVER had a vote that close. (usually in the 80% range) This was pretty close.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Network-King,

Well, I don't go to the Dalpa board too much, too many hot heads on that board. As far as the 100 seat rate, we are also fighting for the 79 seaters. I am sure that the rates will be low, but that wasn't our fault, rather Jetblue management (no union there). That has really set the bar, NOT US. I probably won't be flying the 100 seater (MD88 Capt may be next for me), but I am sure many will and will be happy to. You have to get the aircraft first and then work for the rates. Our furloughed pilots that aren't flying would love to come over and fly again, and maybe we can hire again someday into those planes too.

I can see that you are upset, but sometimes you have to look at the options, and we did lower the amount Delta wanted and still have the chance to fight for other things. We are in bankruptcy----the first time ever for Delta, and it is not easy to fight when you are cornered. We have done ok so far, and we will either get a fair (not slanted towards us only---can't happen in Chap 11) deal or we do shut it down. It was close, and that is the key----for both ALPA negotiators and for the company. Go fly your UPS 757 and work on your own future.


And, I do have a lot of posts. I have been on this board for years, and I enjoy the debate. I still do other things in my spare time, but when I get on here I usually give plenty of responses. I enjoy it. You need to find something you enjoy and not always complain. Play the lotto and get out of this industry.


Bye Bye--General Lee