Were is the General Sherman on here?

[dicko]

I'm glad you liked the second deal Dicko. My friends at AAI didn't.

You misunderstand ...... Again. I liked neither.

 

[DonVerita]

Only a small group of southwest pilots are seeing any positives from all this on our side. Most FO's like myself have already started sliding backward in domicile seniority so it's not like we are reaping huge benefits from your situation.

Really? Not reaping huge benefits. Let's just see about that.

SWAPA, with the complicit help of SWA management, first stole huge amounts of ATN seniority. Why? Think you're better than us? Why not just straight DOH? Then, as if that wasn't enough, they pillage all of our 737 Capt. seats only to have management come back for another round of raping and this time get rid of all the 717's which causes the loss of most of those Capt. seats. We won't even mention the B-Scale pay, the loss of domiciles, the lower retirement contributions (11.5% down to 9.3%) or the immense financial harm from unrealized future earnings at the Capt. level.

So while you and some of your SWA compadres may be upset about sliding down a bit in domicile seniority, you fail to mention all of the SWA F/O Capt. upgrades you have coming your way 100% at the expense of ATN Captains whose seats have been confiscated.

 

[Cometman]

Really? Not reaping huge benefits. Let's just see about that.

SWAPA, with the complicit help of SWA management, first stole huge amounts of ATN seniority. Why? Think you're better than us? Why not just straight DOH? Then, as if that wasn't enough, they pillage all of our 737 Capt. seats only to have management come back for another round of raping and this time get rid of all the 717's which causes the loss of most of those Capt. seats. We won't even mention the B-Scale pay, the loss of domiciles, the lower retirement contributions (11.5% down to 9.3%) or the immense financial harm from unrealized future earnings at the Capt. level.

So while you and some of your SWA compadres may be upset about sliding down a bit in domicile seniority, you fail to mention all of the SWA F/O Capt. upgrades you have coming your way 100% at the expense of ATN Captains whose seats have been confiscated.

I thought this subject was over. Do you really think by bringing it up again it will change? Get over it you. You got what you have and if you really do not like it leave. Life is too short. It will all be over before you know it. It will not go away and you will not get a better deal because you complain.

 

[ChinaClipper]

Dan, good point....

You think the Trannies got the shaft, you should have seen what SWAPA and the Warrior Spirit want to do to Frontier, this is NOTHING compared to what they dodged, ask a SWAPA guy about what happened during the Video Conference between FAPA and SWAPA......the SWAPA boys didn't know the system was on a few minutes earlier than the official start time....whoooeeee, the true colors were sad, embarrassing and something VERY different from what WN portrays......sad....

We've got a General Lee on here, shouldn't we have a General Sherman? It would have to be a SWA guy who is proud of the fact that they pillaged ATL at the expense of the AirTran pilots........................Warrior Spirit Bubba!

I've watched the whole debate on here and it sure seems that the SWA folks just don't get that their actions have consequences. You can't acquire an airline and than start displacing peoples lives and expect them to become happy little warriors. SWA got what AirTran earned and SWA could not, a foothold in ATL.
You guys got there flying, fine, but you really shouldn't be condescending them by telling them how lucky they are or, hey you guys voted for it etc etc. It's not lucky at all if you all of a sudden have to commute or lost your Captains seat and it was in fact deceitfully rammed down their throats.
Mergers are all about screwing over employee's so a few can make money on the deal, period. The managements that do them do not care about the human toll in a merger, only how it looks on the balance sheet. SWA obviously is no different.
I actually was hopeful when the deal was first announced that SWA would come up with a better way to merge given how acrimonious most airline mergers are. They failed, in fact DAL/NWA did a much better job than you guys did.

 

[waveflyer]

But that's what he said- unless you're within striking distance of an upgrade, none of this AT deal benefits us. And i mean "none" - its 100% negative, there is not one aspect that is beneficial to most FOs. We only hope that it is a good business decision and it'll be used to start growing again.

Really? Not reaping huge benefits. Let's just see about that.

SWAPA, with the complicit help of SWA management, first stole huge amounts of ATN seniority. Why? Think you're better than us? Why not just straight DOH? Then, as if that wasn't enough, they pillage all of our 737 Capt. seats only to have management come back for another round of raping and this time get rid of all the 717's which causes the loss of most of those Capt. seats. We won't even mention the B-Scale pay, the loss of domiciles, the lower retirement contributions (11.5% down to 9.3%) or the immense financial harm from unrealized future earnings at the Capt. level.

So while you and some of your SWA compadres may be upset about sliding down a bit in domicile seniority, you fail to mention all of the SWA F/O Capt. upgrades you have coming your way 100% at the expense of ATN Captains whose seats have been confiscated.

 

[SWA Bubba]

You think the Trannies got the shaft, you should have seen what SWAPA and the Warrior Spirit want to do to Frontier, this is NOTHING compared to what they dodged, ask a SWAPA guy about what happened during the Video Conference between FAPA and SWAPA......the SWAPA boys didn't know the system was on a few minutes earlier than the official start time....whoooeeee, the true colors were sad, embarrassing and something VERY different from what WN portrays......sad....

Kinda' glad you brought up Frontier, ChinaClipper dude....

Since you didn't actually relay any of the negotiations, rather you just lobbed random insults at SWAPA, let me provide a short history lesson of that affair:

The negotiations were very short (BK judge's auction timeline; not SW's or Frontier's), so it was very quick. However, this was a very different situation than Airtran. Frontier was a tiny carrier in bankruptcy, whose only options were being acquired or liquidation--and right soon at that. What FAPA wanted was initially four things: Pay protection, Furlough protection, Domicile protection for Denver, and Seat protection. SWAPA was authorized to offer all of that except seat protection. And we made such an offer. FAPA, or its president Stemmler, actually, didn't really want this deal (didn't want to be an FO again, I suppose, regardless of the other provisions or the wishes of the other FAPA pilots), so they then added more demands--including paid medical and thousands in cash per month for all the Frontier pilots who were already furloughed by Frontier due to their previous downsizing (who were receiving nothing from Frontier at the time, by the way). Ridiculous crap that was not only unreasonable, but they knew was never going to happen.

After the negotiations fell apart, FAPA's president returned, saying that he turned it down because "Southwest was going to furlough 20% of the current Frontier pilots." So the bottom guys were happy because they thought FAPA had saved them from being unemployed. A completely fabricated BS snow job, of course, because Southwest had guaranteed that none of them would be furloughed. And I'm sure it's not too much of a stretch to say that a Southwest promise of no furloughs is worth a hell of a lot more than a Brian Bedford promise of anything. Just ask the former Midwest Express pilots what they think about that.

So, anyway, that's how the Frontier group ended up with Brian Bedford's Republic instead of with Southwest.

Bubba

 

[ChinaClipper]

I stand by my post...

you'll never guess who, or where, someone started recordingit all...just a bit early......
Hint, not a Cowboys fan around!

Kinda' glad you brought up Frontier, ChinaClipper dude....

Since you didn't actually relay any of the negotiations, rather you just lobbed random insults at SWAPA, let me provide a short history lesson of that affair:

The negotiations were very short (BK judge's auction timeline; not SW's or Frontier's), so it was very quick. However, this was a very different situation than Airtran. Frontier was a tiny carrier in bankruptcy, whose only options were being acquired or liquidation--and right soon at that. What FAPA wanted was initially four things: Pay protection, Furlough protection, Domicile protection for Denver, and Seat protection. SWAPA was authorized to offer all of that except seat protection. And we made such an offer. FAPA, or its president Stemmler, actually, didn't really want this deal (didn't want to be an FO again, I suppose, regardless of the other provisions or the wishes of the other FAPA pilots), so they then added more demands--including paid medical and thousands in cash per month for all the Frontier pilots who were already furloughed by Frontier due to their previous downsizing (who were receiving nothing from Frontier at the time, by the way). Ridiculous crap that was not only unreasonable, but they knew was never going to happen.

After the negotiations fell apart, FAPA's president returned, saying that he turned it down because "Southwest was going to furlough 20% of the current Frontier pilots." So the bottom guys were happy because they thought FAPA had saved them from being unemployed. A completely fabricated BS snow job, of course, because Southwest had guaranteed that none of them would be furloughed. And I'm sure it's not too much of a stretch to say that a Southwest promise of no furloughs is worth a hell of a lot more than a Brian Bedford promise of anything. Just ask the former Midwest Express pilots what they think about that.

So, anyway, that's how the Frontier group ended up with Brian Bedford's Republic instead of with Southwest.

Bubba

 

[ChinaClipper]

Huhh?

the Pilot "Negotiations" were irrelevant, GK need to blame FAPA, with SWAPAs help...AFTER he knew the jig was up! He couldn't admit that the almighty WN got snookered in a dual with a bunch of corn-fed Indiana shysters with GKW consulting on there side! Tragedy for both sides, but the management games continue...f9ers have lost either way....

 

[Always deferred]

You are really going to hold it over AirTran pilots' heads that you had to "buy your job" and they just waltzed in? This is business folks. Pilots have no say in what happens. As much as you think you're special, to management and the BOD (and shareholders) you are just another expense on the balance sheet. In most corporate mergers, 1000s are usually laid off. Both companies need each other in the long run to survive. No one is doing the other a "favor". The sooner you realize this and quit thumping your chests, the sooner and smoother you can integrate and make life better for everyone.

 

[redflyer65]

Think you're better than us? Why not just straight DOH?

So your saying a job at Airtran was equal to a job at Southwest? Southwest is older, larger, and a much more difficult job to acquire. Pay and QOL differences are huge. How is that possibly equal in your world?

There wasn't a chance in hell of DOH. If you thought that going in, you were delusional.