washing the plane

[banned username 2]

At my current job, with Fortune 100 company, I was hired to be a captain on a Falcon 50EX/900EX. Again, I never flew either of these aircraft. At the time I was hired, I was a furloughed airline pilot about 1 year after 9/11.

Gee I don't get ANY credit??? Thanks Pal!

 

[JetPilot500]

Gee I don't get ANY credit??? Thanks Pal!

Hey, we both know it was all based on my charm and good looks!

LOL!

 

[banned username 2]

Hey, we both know it was all based on my charm and good looks!

LOL!

And your 8 minute interview!

 

[JetPilot500]

And your 8 minute interview!

That's all they needed!

 

[2000flyer]

I know everyone has unique situations, but I've been hired by 2 major corporate flight departments in my lifetime. The first one was with one of the largest companies in the world flying a G-IV, and yes economic times were better then. I never flew a Gulfstream before in my life, however. At my current job, with Fortune 100 company, I was hired to be a captain on a Falcon 50EX/900EX. Again, I never flew either of these aircraft. At the time I was hired, I was a furloughed airline pilot about 1 year after 9/11.

I'm not trying to gloat, or make my situation sound better than yours or anything. I'm just trying to point out that opportunites do exist. Don't mentally limit yourself, or you will be limited for sure.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

Jet,

Once again with your comment "don't mentally limit yourself" I'll repeat....I am not presently seeking another position. If I were, I'd be applying to every operator of ANY type a/c. My point is, AT THIS TIME, so many look for time in type and such. Are there exceptions? You bet. If I read the later posts by Falcon Capt., sounds like maybe you two work together or maybe one had a recommendation in there? (maybe I'm wrong too) but my point is, having a LOR or inside info certainly didn't hurt the situation either!

2000Flyer

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Just fly through a rain cloud...that should be clean enough.

 

[Lymond]

I set out to be an airline guy and, after 16 years in that now extremely miserable business, I find myself having run a corporate flight department and now a line captain for another. While we aren't required to "wash" the airplanes here, we have been encouraged to take ownership of the flight department. We operate a GV, a Challenger 604 and a Citation Ultra and have a full-time maint. staff. Pilots out here on the west coast (604, GV) number six with a part-timer -- and this number includes a Chief Pilot and flying Director of Operations.

Our experience is varied: an ex-Continental pilot of six years and most recently of the Pentastar Aviation, an ex-Hawaiian captain of 8 years, a 15-year Nordstrom guy, 1 pure corporate gypsy who swears he has found a "home", an ex-Learjet charter guy, myself ex-US Airways of many years, and a current Alaska Airlines senior captain (our part-timer). Flight time for most exceeds 10,000 hours and a variety of types, as you might well imagine. Captain salaries easily exceed six figures.

I make these comments to illustrate our diverse backgrounds and therefore, mores and attitudes. Another observation worth noting is the relative harmony within this small group; our mutual respect and indeed friendship for one another, and the muted emphasis put upon family and lifestyle by both the corporation at large and the Director of Flight Ops., specifically -- a man who I have come to admire greatly in the relatively short time I have known him.

What does all of this have to do with washing airplanes? Everything, as far as I am concerned. Have I stood on a wing with a brush in hand or a pair off goggles and a breather and a can of polish? Yes indeed. And, no, I wasn't instructed to do so as part of my "job description". Yet, when one of my brothers takes it upon himself to do so during a slack period in the flight schedule, the rest of us respond with if not zeal, a sense of duty to the company that routinely makes note of such efforts and honors us in kind -- not to mention our desire to help. I cannot emphasize that point enough -- coming most recently from a company that begrudged me every nickel and was forever devoting most of its' attentions to exploiting my natural goodwill, and caring not a whit whether I ever saw my family, much less spent a holiday with them...I could go on and on.

Regardless of the period in which we now live, where professional pilots are finding, to their dismay, that there is not a great deal beneath them, there remains the principle that dictates nothing is really work unless you would rather be doing something else -- so that the question becomes not, 'Do you wash airplanes?' but rather, is it work to do so? A subjective opinion is required -- doubtless there is a wrong answer here, but if there is, I cannot see it. In all of the turbulent years I have spent feeding myself with a stick and rudder (which ranges from ag-pilot to major airline captain), I was at my most unhappy when I felt there existed a host I things that I should never be asked to do -- and to do so was an utter outrage both personally and professionally. In my own case, this no doubt stemmed from the fact that I was often asked to do a great deal, sacrifice much -- and in return, being offered little in the way of gratitude beyond a paycheck and a healthy dose of contempt.

I submit that if you suddenly have the unbidden urge to pick up a rag and apply it to the aluminum -- or don the gloves and swab the commode -- or give the leading edges a lick and a promise: you're either a saint -- or you work for a company that honors such noble principles.

I'm no saint. Not even close.

Lymond

 

[vossdr1]

Lymond,
I want to work for your company.

 

[English]

Lymond,

Your post makes some valid points.

I see you've been a member of this board for a year, but you've only posted 4 times. Think we could encourage you to share more of your experience here with us? I enjoyed reading your post.

 

[avpro91]

We usually have a line guy wash our airplanes at our home base. We have a descent size fleet there. But we do a lot of corporate shuttles and I'll sometimes wash the plane at an outstation to kill time between trips. Doesnt take too long and it makes you feel good about what you're presenting to the customer. But then again, I don't get paid extra for it so it only happens once in a long while!

 

[sleepy]

We have a line service department that cleans the aircraft inside and out.

In order to wash an aircraft here you need special training, must wear OSHA required fall protection, comply with EPA requirements for storm water runnoff and HAZMAT. You must comply with OSHA requirements for the chemicals in use. You must have completed VPP training, etc........

Pilots are not qualified to do it.

 

[svcta]

At a previous job, the last time I dressed a set of boots I splashed some of the boot stripper in my eyes. Mind you, I was expected to do this job, but there were no safety glasses given to me(as an example). I ran for the water fountain hoping to open my eye and see something. Screw that......11 million dollar a/c and I'm dealing with fuming, caustic chemicals to clean de-ice boots? The mechanic already told me he was unhappy with the work that I had done and the way he trained me to do it could easily(in his own words) damage the boots. Okay, then he should do it. Actually, he wanted to...and he wanted to be the one responsible for keeping the a/c clean on the outside, too. It kept him more familiar with what it needed and he was freaking meticulous. But the CP, I believe, was too scared to explain it to the boss.

And, I once worked near an operator that blamed the a/c cleaner when their Citation folded a landing gear on a landing.....I don't need that, either.

I think in the first case(my personal experience) it was an example of a flight department, always staffed by two, that grew from single-engine, to king air, to citation, etc. etc, but never outgrew some of the more persistent small-time mindsets on pay and duties.

There can be valid arguments made for why you should be careful when accepting the responsibility of washing the company a/c. Way beyond just being a 'prima donna'. And if you're changing tires on the company jet, or even King Air, you ought to have your head examined.

By the way, where are all these over qualified pilots some of you are talking about? We've got a position open and can't seem to get too excited about anyone that we've found so far. I don't see a glut of pilots by a long shot.

 

[cr7driver]

I worked for a South FL 135 operator and flying the aircraft was considered a perk! Your primary job was to take care of the aircraft. That included washing, waxing and polishing the bright work. As soon as I found a better job I was gone.
I then worked at a part 91, 2 man flight department. That was a bit better, but I was still responsible for the aircraft. After a year of that I found a real job.
The way I see it is that I am a professional and should be treated as such. I never saw any of the office workers cleaning the building after the end of the work day....so why should I have to wash the aircraft.
I prefer to spend the free time that I have off with my family instead to washing the aircraft.

 

[Rokit88]

This conversation should end with:

1. A phone call.
2. The statement "Hi, (insert detailing company name here) my airplane is dirty. It needs (wash,wax,brightwork,etc.) Thanks! See ya.
3. Go hit on the girl at the FBO.

done.

 

[thatpilotguy]

There are some insurance and safety concerns when cleaning a corporate aircraft. Personally the liability of damaging something on the aircraft scares me. I'll leave it to the professionals who are bonded and insured for that type of work.

We do service our lav at our home airport, run a dust buster through the cabin and wipe down the tables and galley. That's part of the job and doesn't share in the same liability issues.

Cleaning an airplane really falls under maintanace. You need to clean an airplane to maintain the paint, and rid it of damaging oils, and fluids. As such it should be a budget line item and scheduled much like a routine inspection is.

 

[Lead Sled]

There are some insurance and safety concerns when cleaning a corporate aircraft. Personally the liability of damaging something on the aircraft scares me. I'll leave it to the professionals who are bonded and insured for that type of work.

We do service our lav at our home airport, run a dust buster through the cabin and wipe down the tables and galley. That's part of the job and doesn't share in the same liability issues.

Cleaning an airplane really falls under maintanace. You need to clean an airplane to maintain the paint, and rid it of damaging oils, and fluids. As such it should be a budget line item and scheduled much like a routine inspection is.

You read my mind.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

How the hell did this thread get resurrected after nearly five years?????

has TOO much time on his hands - maybe he should go grab a hose and wash the plane.

 

[Publishers]

I have seen crews based here wash the aircraft. We have people here that do that for a living but there are a few that do it themselves if it is a light wash and hire the company for bright work or heavy cleans.
Personally I think it is good to do it yourself every once in awhile as you tend to see things a bit differently than when you do a standard walkaround. I don't believe any of the crews I saw doing it were actually required by the owner but undertook it on their own.
It did not kill any of them and no doubt they were lowering that imaginary bar everyone is so concerned with. The irony is in all the interviews I have had, no one ever said the things they would not do.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I have seen crews based here wash the aircraft. We have people here that do that for a living but there are a few that do it themselves if it is a light wash and hire the company for bright work or heavy cleans.
Personally I think it is good to do it yourself every once in awhile as you tend to see things a bit differently than when you do a standard walkaround. I don't believe any of the crews I saw doing it were actually required by the owner but undertook it on their own.
It did not kill any of them and no doubt they were lowering that imaginary bar everyone is so concerned with. The irony is in all the interviews I have had, no one ever said the things they would not do.

well, I would certainly inquire about what is expected in an interview...especially at a smaller place that MIGHT expect pilots to do this type of thing during downtime.

So long as you know, you cant complain.

That being said, I personally think one can find better things to do on their downtime!

 

[Publishers]

Well let's see, I'll pay you $110k a year to fly my Lear 60 200 hours a year, 3 weeks hard time off, full benefits including company paid healthcare and dental, but, I would like you to wash the aircraft every once in awhile.
No, I don't do windows.