Wash-out style of training

[skipro101]

Yea, I mean, I think a major reason that I made excuses is that the reputation for AMF training is ....screw up and your out. Thus, every time I screwed up I thought I was going to get kicked, so I tried to make it look like I wasnt messing up....and that just made it worse! The reality is that they will work with you, to a point....

Bah, water under the bridge now...and I am a better pilot for the experience.

 

[hate2bL8]

I had a friend make one mistake on his ride and was not given a second chance. Nicest guy you would ever meet no attitude no chip on the shoulder;however,had he passed and decided to quit the company would be after him for the cost of training. this makes absolutely no sense!!

 

[jmreii]

Lots of good comments on this thread and none of the usual Flight Info BS.

Years ago when I started with Evergreen on the DC-8, they ran a strict military style program: You don't get 80% on the written exam, ya are out..No excuses, no re-testing. A bit nervewrecking and 2 guys in class were given a ticket home..One of them already had a type in the Diesel 8..Go figure.

At other non-scheds I have worked, including as a check airman, they (we) looked at attitudes as well as background/knowledge, etc.
Nobody got booted without being given a second chance.
As we hired more and more low-time guys the training issue was more high-lighted: High-time International guys with time in type did not need much training, just learn OUR procedures and call-outs, show up for training on time and you will get through...

When the low-time guys came onboard, we actually had to TRAIN folks, more or less from scratch.
Less of those guys washed out than the high time guys with an attitude.
It is really easy: If you try hard, the instructors and check airmen will bend over backwards to help you.
If you are lazy and think you know it all, you may be on the street real soon, wondering what happened.

very good post, also mesa and amflight should be added to the list.

 

[laserman2431]

"I usually end up yelling at the student until he submits and realizes he still has things to learn and yes,"

Dear loser,

It's unfortunate that mnay companies have at least one instructor who has a large a$$hole right in the middle of his forehead. I'm guessing the other children were mean to you.

 

[climbhappy]

while we're on the subject of training, anyone of you ever had this : most IPs will say that the sim should follow a normal progression. a curve that keeps going up. on my first type ride, i came in and shined the first three days then had the bad sim. i actually think i just drank too much coffee and i was having a caffeine crash. my partner started weak then tied it together. well, i was told i had to have one more sim. they sent him through and asked me to ride support. i had to swallow some humble pie and it made me better. i regrouped and and nailed the ride and realize that this progression thing makes sense.

on my recent 73 typeride , my curve was normal, the ride ends up being easy or easier...My IPs have said," the checkride will be a breeze and it usually is.
what's ya'll take...do rides seem easier? ithink so..

 

[Big Dog]

Perfect Example

"I usually end up yelling at the student until he submits and realizes he still has things to learn and yes,"

Dear loser,

It's unfortunate that mnay companies have at least one instructor who has a large a$$hole right in the middle of his forehead. I'm guessing the other children were mean to you.

This is the combative attitude. I bet you never make mistakes in the airplane, it's always the gauge, the GPS, the database, the sim, the instructor; an excuse for every situation of poor airmanship.
Just submit and learn. Cooperate/Graduate

 

[b707guy]

My training history usually consisted of:
Day 1 Crap, Where'd we find this guy?
Day 2 Shine, OK then!
Day 3 Really impressive, glad we found him
Day 4 Crap, whoops...
Day 5 Regroup and shine, Phew!
Day 6 Nice Checkride, congrats!

I don't know that there's a "normal" progression. Everyone's different. The mid-program sims I've always found to be the most difficult because
you're supposed to know what you're doing then so you get the more challenging events, plus you're cramming as much in so you can concentrate on the impending checkride. That's what seems to be "normal" for me anyway. I also sealed up the ol' forehead sphincter a long time ago. That helps me get through days 1 and 4. The other days then just become pudding for the line.

 

[8inMan]

I think almost all companies that hire pilots to fly single pilot, multi-engine, part 135(such as AMF) end up with a pretty high washout rate. There just is no way around it. When you are flight training in an actual airplane that is consuming lots of gas, especially a turbine, you can't train and train and train. If the student isn't progressing at all or if you're spending more time teaching the student how to fly instruments then teaching them the airplane and company profiles, it just isn't going to work. I've taken extra time to train a student if he/she is progressing slowly, but there defenitely has to be some progression. If not, I'm sorry, but you probably just aren't cut out for this stuff. Go get a job in the front office of some shiny airplane that practically flies itself and if something goes wrong, you'll have another pilot there to help sort things out. Flying a beat up 30 year old freighter alone to 1800rvr isn't a job everyone can do.

 

[laserman2431]

"...the GPS, the database, the sim, the instructor; an excuse for every situation of poor airmanship."

Hmm. If I have a situation of poor airmanship, I'll watch to see how I respond.

 

[asaflyer]

I can speak from experience when I say that the worst thing you can do for any length of time is fly jumpers. I did this for a while and then went to Flight Express back in '98. They put me and my class through the ringer. We all made it (only 3) but it was tough. And that was just a 210. I have a E120 type from ASA which I considered pretty tough, but I had more experience then. I think it's just what your used to. I haven't been in a E120 for 6 years and I know it would kick my butt now. I will agree that it's 90% attitude.

 

[AZaviator]

Has anyone had the pleasure of doing the 2am-6am sim session for 7 days straight? I did it a few months ago and it was rough! I tried several different sleep schedules and came to the conclusion that none of them were going to work at those hours. Lucky for me, I had really good sim instructors and a great sim partner. However, I wouldn't wish the 2am-6am sim schedule on anyone.

climbhappy and b707guy are right on about the training progression. I experienced exactly what they were saying:
Sims: 1-3 all went really well; normal progression.
Sim 4: WTF?????
Sim 5,6, & checkride: back on track and all went well.

 

[jmreii]

I think almost all companies that hire pilots to fly single pilot, multi-engine, part 135(such as AMF) end up with a pretty high washout rate. There just is no way around it. When you are flight training in an actual airplane that is consuming lots of gas, especially a turbine, you can't train and train and train. If the student isn't progressing at all or if you're spending more time teaching the student how to fly instruments then teaching them the airplane and company profiles, it just isn't going to work. I've taken extra time to train a student if he/she is progressing slowly, but there defenitely has to be some progression. If not, I'm sorry, but you probably just aren't cut out for this stuff. Go get a job in the front office of some shiny airplane that practically flies itself and if something goes wrong, you'll have another pilot there to help sort things out. Flying a beat up 30 year old freighter alone to 1800rvr isn't a job everyone can do.

too bad a jet does not fly like a turboprop, that was my first lesson, blocking out turboprop exerience.

 

[hate2bL8]

the biggest A$$hole IP trains out of MIA and he knows who he is. Because he has flown in Vietnam when many of us were still in Diapers. The only reason he has his part time gig is because the company needs Instructors!! constantly forgetting things..

 

[mvedepo]

ATI's "washout" rate was pretty much 0% until recently. I've talked to some of our current pilots and it seems like somethings changed in our training department. I'm truly sorry if you were affected by this and I hope you can move on to something better. I personally believe a high washout rate says more about the training department than the individuals being trained. Good luck.

until you interview somewhere else. Not getting through training somewhere can really hurt you in the future unfortunately. Especially the next position you are trying to apply for.

 

[jmreii]

until you interview somewhere else. Not getting through training somewhere can really hurt you in the future unfortunately. Especially the next position you are trying to apply for.

If it is a good company with an excellent training department, it wont hurt you a bit. Just a minor setback for something better.