Wall Street Jornal: NWA "reworks plan for merger"

[FDJ2]

DAL is out of bankruptcy. It's BOD calls the shots.

That's not what you said. You said the hostile takeover was rejected by the BOD. Obviously you had no idea what you were talking about.

Here's one for you to ponder. Do you have any idea who was on the panel that selected the current BOD?

 

[400ADude]

Sedona:
FYI....

400AHOLE=chuck yogurt/lawman/einstein/texas crotch rot/boris yelling/lame lizard/sky fly
He's a midwest f/o.

737

Talking to yourself is pretty bad dude. Sedona=737pylt,etc..... we all know.

I don't care if you call me Chuck etc.... It's funny.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Poppi:
You're assuming this dufus is even a pilot. He claims to be air force. But tell me, how can anyone who is just shy of 20 years of military service only have 1800 hours? Its easy, he's not a pilot, but a desk jockey......On the weekend he's studying and building time at the local fbo for his interview at mesa.
Come on now private clown, the colonel needs his afternoon coffee, and there's plenty of copies to be made!

737

You're absolutely right. Pretending to be an "Airforce Pilot" with low total time is pathetic. It's almost as pathetic as pretending to be a Delta pilot while you live in your parents' basement. Newsflash, chief..... just because you've shot the ILS into Bogota umpteen-million times saying, "Delta 123 cleared for the ILS 13R" on FlightSim 2000 doesn't actually make you a Delta pilot.... Sure, you can buy the hat and the double-breasted weenie coat on eBay, but that still doesn't make you anythng other than an acne-ridden 14 year old who likes to dress up in "grownup clothes".

I think I hear your mommy calling you for dinner, little man.

 

[Tanker Clown]

You're absolutely right. Pretending to be an "Airforce Pilot" with low total time is pathetic. It's almost as pathetic as pretending to be a Delta pilot while you live in your parents' basement. Newsflash, chief..... just because you've shot the ILS into Bogota umpteen-million times saying, "Delta 123 cleared for the ILS 13R" on FlightSim 2000 doesn't actually make you a Delta pilot.... Sure, you can buy the hat and the double-breasted weenie coat on eBay, but that still doesn't make you anythng other than an acne-ridden 14 year old who likes to dress up in "grownup clothes".

I think I hear your mommy calling you for dinner, little man.

Lay off the guy. His mom just grounded him. And since no girls would go to the prom with him he had to ask his cousin to go with him. It's quite sad really.

 

[~~~^~~~]

DAL is a share cropper, who even though they managed to get an education and a decent job, has never gotten over coming from the other side of the tracks, and needs to marry into money and respectability.

They bought Pan Am.

I just hope they learned that it is a whole lot better to grow internally than to buy a bunch of aircraft that don't work in the fleet and try to change employees outlooks and attitudes.

Weird, the disparity in rumors. On the DAL side it is 777 orders, growth and faith in a stand alone plan. On the NWA side it is the belief in a forced merger.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Has anyone called the LEC reps to see what they have to say? I could not get a hold of mine

 

[NuGuy]

Has anyone called the LEC reps to see what they have to say? I could not get a hold of mine

Heyas ACL,

Yes. On the NWA side...they basically confirm what Occam has said. The two sides are working towards a deal, "encouraged" by management, which is pressing ahead.

The MECs are basically at risk of being OBE, or "overtaken by events".

Sigh...we are all, both NWA and DAL, in a tight spot here. There were a lot of promises made, or what were interpreted as promises, that simply will not be kept.

I am as about as far from a "managemenet shill" as you can get, but I do recognize the pragmatic nature of both groups. If this thing is forced on us, we will be faced with two choices:

1) Take a deal that meets mid-way, as well as a package of enhancements that will certainly be lower than what was initially offered.

2) Take it to arbitration, and receive nothing for the trouble, and face a HUGE unknown, with the potential of a complete USAir style meltdown.

There are a lot of un-web-savvy, non-fire-starting pilots that simply put on their suit, go to work, go home, and try to squeak out a few hours with the little missus and the 2.3 kids, while trying to keep up on the house payment, as well as a lot of senior pilots who are looking for the pay raise and any equity payout.

If any agreement is produced that doesn't disturb anyone's equipment/base too much, and maybe throws a few schekles on the table, it will pass, despite the commiserating of you, me and all of the other master debaters on this site.

Lots of "unknowns" at this point. YMMV...

Nu

 

[johnsonrod]

Just for clarification sake, can someone remind me why the NWA side originally balked at the DALPA position? What were the main points of contention on the NWA side again that contributed to this delay and potential loss of incentives? I believe fulfilling original career "expectations" was one issue.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

I believe fulfilling original career "expectations" was one issue.

...expectations that appear to be diminishing as the 60+ crowd at NWA sticks around...

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The combination of the carriers will not have the effect that has been stated; The deal stinks all the way around. However, it will allow some execs and upper management to cash out and leave before the industry heads into another recession.

This may end up with two groups of fighting pilots at an insolvent carrier, with all the execs exiting the building.

 

[General Lee]

The combination of the carriers will not have the effect that has been stated; The deal stinks all the way around. However, it will allow some execs and upper management to cash out and leave before the industry heads into another recession.

This may end up with two groups of fighting pilots at an insolvent carrier, with all the execs exiting the building.

I don't think a combination of carriers would ever lead to an "insolvent" carrier. Could it lead to the Hatfields and the McCoys? Maybe. One thing management can't seem to understand is that frontline employees have a real affect on passengers, and whether or not they continue to fly with us. They have witnessed what has happened with USAir, and if they want to force two groups of cultures together, then sobeit. Even with Aloha going away due to high fuel and intense competition with Mesa, NWA/DL will have a hard time pushing this through with LOCAL politicians. I think the DOJ is more open to this now (thanks to Bush leaving and rubbber stamping everything), but certain members of Congress and the Senate will still be tough on DL if certain criteria is not met. Can promises go out the window? Sure.

Also, it really would be too bad if we had to put a deal together now that did NOT include the no furlough protection the previous offer DID have. We all want a fair SLI, and any job losses can be primarily pointed at a greenbook negotiator with an agenda. Our offer kept everyone within .05% of where they are at currently, which is a fact, and fair when blending like sized airlines (ours is larger in reality). At least we know who screwed the pooch on that one. One airline cannot get all the benefits without giving a little, which is what happened.



March 28, 2008, 4:46 pm
Northwest-Delta: We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Pilots

Posted by Heidi Moore
The airline industry may be a place where good ideas go to die.
The best idea in the industry, for instance, is on the rocks. Delta and Northwest had the unprecedented, and widely heralded, idea to get the blessing of their pilots before agreeing to a merger. Unfortunately, the talks have died, stopped by bickering over which airlines get to call the shots on how pilots rank in seniority. Northwest, desperate to do a deal before a new Justice Department comes in under a new president, has suggested that the two parties jettison the pilots’ prenuptial agreement and give the pilots less favorable financial terms.
Sigh.
Which gets us back to how airline mergers usually work: they don’t. The two airlines strike a deal, and then spend the rest of their lives trying to navigate labor disputes. It’s a long, litigious, ugly process. Look at US Airways and America West, who have spent the two years since their merger in labor hell.

Of course, you would expect Northwest to throw themselves at Delta and promise anything to get this deal done. FTN Midwest Securities analyst Michael Derchin put it best in a Feb. 27 research report, in which he wrote:

The group that has the most to gain from the merger is the [Northwest] pilots and all [Northwest] employees who are paid less than the [Delta] employees and will get an immediate bump up in wages, have a greater ability to fly a wide body aircraft sooner, and get an equity stake in the new [Delta]. [Delta] pilots and management feel because [Northwest] pilots have the most to gain they should compromise on the seniority list. As one pilot said to me, “they can’t have their cake and eat it too.”

Delta looked high-minded for trying to do it another way, and get the pilots onboard from the beginning. But what they’re learning is that the process will be equally ugly no matter when you do it: whether now or later, airlines and their labor unions are just fated to fight.




Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Occam's Razor]

The combination of the carriers will not have the effect that has been stated; The deal stinks all the way around. However, it will allow some execs and upper management to cash out and leave before the industry heads into another recession.

This may end up with two groups of fighting pilots at an insolvent carrier, with all the execs exiting the building.

Gettin' nervous, "Cubicle Boy"?

You should be.

 

[General Lee]

Gettin' nervous, "Cubicle Boy"?

You should be.

A lot of people should be, thanks to your Merger Committee Chair with an agenda. The prior deal will look like the lottery after we are done now. You can't have your cake and eat it too, and that greenbook guy should take the heat from any NWA pilot who could get furloughed. A No Furlough clause was part of the last deal. Let's see if it is for this next one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Cpt Oveur]

A no furlough clause isn't ironclad. If the economy continues to worsen, furloughs are still going to be possible in a merger.

 

[General Lee]

A no furlough clause isn't ironclad. If the economy continues to worsen, furloughs are still going to be possible in a merger.

We still have a no furlough clause for guys ending at our bottom previous furlough. (TBKANE) It includes high oil prices and economic issues as reasons you cannot furlough. Obviously another 9-11 could cause a "forced manure" clause---but that is about it. We supposedly had the same one for this proposed merger, but I believe it is off the table now. I hope it is added in there if we have to merge. Sure would be nice for some.....


Bye Bye--General Lee