Gulfstream 200
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Wal-Mart is Hiring!!!
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Timebuilder
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Here's what I am able to gather from this thread:
1) Some people who work there like it.
2) They think the pay is good, even though first year RJ captain is LOW for the FO in the corporate world.
3) Upgrade time determines how soon you will be able to enjoy a pleasing lifestyle. If upgrade time exceeds five years, that's LONG for a corporate department that is expanding.
4) The "minority" numbers are about standard for the population, as they are mentioned here. This opens the possibility that the company wants to INCREASE the number of non-white, non-male individuals in the department, which could support flyright's comments. This is true in certain fortune 500 companies who want to improve their "image" before Jesse Jackson shows up for a corporate shakedown, a la NASCAR, which was in the news this week. What is the difference between this new "welcome" management and the old management, such as Bob Lake?
Now, if anyone would like to share some specific information about the department besides rainbows and lollipops, I'm all ears. Anyone who isn't willing to ask some tough questions before making this an employment goal needs to sit down and think for a few minutes.
Now, that isn't too much to ask for, is it?
1) Some people who work there like it.
2) They think the pay is good, even though first year RJ captain is LOW for the FO in the corporate world.
3) Upgrade time determines how soon you will be able to enjoy a pleasing lifestyle. If upgrade time exceeds five years, that's LONG for a corporate department that is expanding.
4) The "minority" numbers are about standard for the population, as they are mentioned here. This opens the possibility that the company wants to INCREASE the number of non-white, non-male individuals in the department, which could support flyright's comments. This is true in certain fortune 500 companies who want to improve their "image" before Jesse Jackson shows up for a corporate shakedown, a la NASCAR, which was in the news this week. What is the difference between this new "welcome" management and the old management, such as Bob Lake?
Now, if anyone would like to share some specific information about the department besides rainbows and lollipops, I'm all ears. Anyone who isn't willing to ask some tough questions before making this an employment goal needs to sit down and think for a few minutes.
Now, that isn't too much to ask for, is it?
Last edited:
flyright_188
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Out of the 30 that interviewed in July, the three that were initially offered a job were one minority, one female, and one white male.
I don't know what RJ Captain rate you are looking at. FO pay at Wal-Mart is $40,000 a year. After you put in a couple years plus as a FO you get a little raise and are called a senior FO. Then you can play kiss a$$ to try for the left seat. Forget the Global or Challenger unless you throw a wig on and have a brown nose.
You don't get a type initially either, but you do get to sign a 2 yr training contract.
What I don't get, this company is Fortune #1, yet they pay like they are going broke. After your 5 year upgrade to Lear CA, you can haul in something in the mid $60,000's.
Where are the great health insurance benefits you are talking about? What are you comaring to to? Frankly, they are not good at all.
I don't know what RJ Captain rate you are looking at. FO pay at Wal-Mart is $40,000 a year. After you put in a couple years plus as a FO you get a little raise and are called a senior FO. Then you can play kiss a$$ to try for the left seat. Forget the Global or Challenger unless you throw a wig on and have a brown nose.
You don't get a type initially either, but you do get to sign a 2 yr training contract.
What I don't get, this company is Fortune #1, yet they pay like they are going broke. After your 5 year upgrade to Lear CA, you can haul in something in the mid $60,000's.
Where are the great health insurance benefits you are talking about? What are you comaring to to? Frankly, they are not good at all.
Gulfstream 200
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1Learjetway
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Gulfstream 200
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lawndart
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Once again, the lack of professionalism and maturity that runs rampant on this board shows its face. It doesn't surprise me that a few of the posters said some of the things they did, but it does surprise me to see that even the webmaster has thrown his hat in the ring.
This thread was started as a possible lead for a flying job for the many unemployed pilots out there, but has rapidly become a flagrant display of immaturity. If you don't have cold hard facts or have a constructive question to ask, keep your mouth shut!
Cold Hard Fact: There are 13 people in our international department, 1 of whom is female, the rest are white males. Being one of those white males, I can assure you that I haven't kissed a single posterior to get my position. What it takes to get upgraded here is doing your job and doing it well.
Cold Hard Fact: All new hires, starting with the group about to be hired, will receive a type through the door. They will also be required to sign a training contract to protect the companies investment.
Yes, upgrade times are long right now, but they are everywhere. What is the current upgrade time at American or Delta? How about Flexjet or Flight Options? The pay rate is commensurate with the General Mills and NBAA salary surveys, especially when the bonus, profit sharing and 401k contributions are included.
What are you comparing them to? The health benefits aren't great, but they are adequate.
We do have some whiners, but you find me a flight dept with 73 pilots that doesn't. There have been problems here in the past and there are problems that are ongoing, but when the entire picture is looked at, it's a great place to be.
In this day and time, diversity is a reality in every company and institution in the country. I know of no plans to increase diversity, but a certain level must be maintained. At one point in time, there was a push to increase diversity, but management learned a hard lesson with that. Our hiring committee is doing everything possible to see that the open positions are filled by the most qualified individuals that are available. As far as the new management, our new chief pilot came from within, so he's familiar with what's really happening in the trenches. I've flown with him as my f/o quite a bit, and I think he is a great choice for the position. Bob Lake was a bad mistake by our senior management, but they made it right and have recently turned the asylum over to the inmates, so to speak.
Let me guess... you were one of the 27 that didn't get an offer? How can you be so sure of your numbers? The only people who have access to the actual numbers are management and the hiring committee.
All-in-all, this department is one of the best flying jobs out there. While we may not be the highest paid or have the quickest upgrade, we have job security that is second to none. This company needs our department to conduct business the way that has made them the Fortune 1 company. We fly late model well-maintained equipment and we don't have to carry bags. The average Lear driver is home 28 nights a month and works 14 days a month. Utilization of our airplanes is probably best in the industry with an average passenger load of 5.2 per leg, which equates to a 71% load factor. The department has consistently grown even, during economic downturns, and stands to grow a bunch more to meet the companies needs over the next 5 to 10 years.
Say what you like, the facts show that this is a very sound place to work.
This thread was started as a possible lead for a flying job for the many unemployed pilots out there, but has rapidly become a flagrant display of immaturity. If you don't have cold hard facts or have a constructive question to ask, keep your mouth shut!
Cold Hard Fact: There are 13 people in our international department, 1 of whom is female, the rest are white males. Being one of those white males, I can assure you that I haven't kissed a single posterior to get my position. What it takes to get upgraded here is doing your job and doing it well.
Cold Hard Fact: All new hires, starting with the group about to be hired, will receive a type through the door. They will also be required to sign a training contract to protect the companies investment.
Yes, upgrade times are long right now, but they are everywhere. What is the current upgrade time at American or Delta? How about Flexjet or Flight Options? The pay rate is commensurate with the General Mills and NBAA salary surveys, especially when the bonus, profit sharing and 401k contributions are included.
What are you comparing them to? The health benefits aren't great, but they are adequate.
We do have some whiners, but you find me a flight dept with 73 pilots that doesn't. There have been problems here in the past and there are problems that are ongoing, but when the entire picture is looked at, it's a great place to be.
In this day and time, diversity is a reality in every company and institution in the country. I know of no plans to increase diversity, but a certain level must be maintained. At one point in time, there was a push to increase diversity, but management learned a hard lesson with that. Our hiring committee is doing everything possible to see that the open positions are filled by the most qualified individuals that are available. As far as the new management, our new chief pilot came from within, so he's familiar with what's really happening in the trenches. I've flown with him as my f/o quite a bit, and I think he is a great choice for the position. Bob Lake was a bad mistake by our senior management, but they made it right and have recently turned the asylum over to the inmates, so to speak.
Let me guess... you were one of the 27 that didn't get an offer? How can you be so sure of your numbers? The only people who have access to the actual numbers are management and the hiring committee.
All-in-all, this department is one of the best flying jobs out there. While we may not be the highest paid or have the quickest upgrade, we have job security that is second to none. This company needs our department to conduct business the way that has made them the Fortune 1 company. We fly late model well-maintained equipment and we don't have to carry bags. The average Lear driver is home 28 nights a month and works 14 days a month. Utilization of our airplanes is probably best in the industry with an average passenger load of 5.2 per leg, which equates to a 71% load factor. The department has consistently grown even, during economic downturns, and stands to grow a bunch more to meet the companies needs over the next 5 to 10 years.
Say what you like, the facts show that this is a very sound place to work.
Gulfstream 200
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rebajetgirl
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Hey timebuilder!!! Just an observation, but do you have anything better to do than sit on a computer and post 2282 replys??? Just wondering, and to each there own.
To everyone else, my best suggestion is to, if you got a call for an interview, make your own opinions and go with it. Everyone is looking for something different. Some of the things I read were true at a some time, most just that......an opinion, but this is a great place to work (IMHO). If you fit the culture, more power to you! If not, no big loss!!
Rebajetgirl
To everyone else, my best suggestion is to, if you got a call for an interview, make your own opinions and go with it. Everyone is looking for something different. Some of the things I read were true at a some time, most just that......an opinion, but this is a great place to work (IMHO). If you fit the culture, more power to you! If not, no big loss!!
Rebajetgirl
Lrjtcaptain
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Timebuilder
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Reba-
I wasn't in broadcasting very long before someone tagged me to write a piece for a Philly newspaper. Since then I have written for Motor Age Magazine's study guide series, and I still keep my foot in the business to this day.
I usually have a lot of free time when I'm not flying. I'd like to fix that, and the fact that I never found a suitable replacement for my fiancee. It was a shame I had to say goodbye, but necessary. I guess I enjoy sharing my life experience, since I see aviation as a synergy of different ingredients.
Need any more info?
Certainly some good advice, but an intelligent decision requires some input, and only a little tiny bit of info has been shared here. I find that a little unusual.
Dave has shared some facts with me, and that's great. He no doubt knows that in order to find out whether or not you will be a good fit in ANY corporation's culture, you first need to know something of that culture, along with the particular information about pay and benefits, and in the case of aviation, upgrade time.
I LOVE to fly, but I'm not going to do it for next to nothing for several years. If I had been willing to do that, I would have joined my friends at Allegheny. Things look bleak for them, and I'm less than a year from upgrade to captain in a jet. It would be nice to have a regular schedule, but I'd trade that for some international work in a Challenger as an SIC.
So, Reba, if you can enlighten me with some more factual info, I'm more than happy to listen. I guess it's the PIC in me. Don't misinterpret my caution to mean that I'm being a wise guy. It's just that I've been around long enough to know to ask questions.
I hope you enjoy my next 2800 posts.
rebajetgirl
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I think lawndart has said it quite well!! I'm not here to aurgue with you, but to let some interested people know that we are looking to hire! If it is such a sin to help a fellow pilot out then, so be it! No matter what post you look at regrading jobs, you will have the good with the bad. I just know that we are a one of corporate aviations little known secrets, and if you feel differently, well then ok!
PS> So why are you an FO?? Just wondering?
PS> So why are you an FO?? Just wondering?
Timebuilder
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That's great. Do you have some information to help an intelligent person make a decision about your company?
Who said it was a sin to help out a fellow pilot?
Funny.
PIC is a state of mind, much more than a position in the aircraft. I first learned that state of mind in at the Academy when I was a cadet, and also during martial arts training, and it was affirmed many years later when I took the Dale Carnegie Course.
At one time, I thought of it as Person In charge of Column (writing for the paper), or just Person In Charge. There are a great many people who are incapable of leadership, yet they hold a position in aviation called PIC. In reality, it is a leadership position.
So, I have had the concept of PIC in me for many years. Thanks for asking. Just as at the Academy, I am preparing for my next assignment. I started as a plebe, and moved up from there. Right now I am an FO. Not bad, I must say, for a guy who has done what I have done, and in a depressed market to boot. I have nothing to be ashamed of, and everything to be thanful for.
Now. Does anyone here have any more factual information about wal-mart's flight department, policies, pay, benefits, and upgrade time, or am I out of line to be asking?
Anyone?
Gulfstream 200
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Timebuilder
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Thanks. I wouldn't fly with a 1600 hour captain in the Lear, either.
I do have plans to move up, though. I took a break from my ATP studies to finish my FIRC online with American Flyers. Now I'm back to the ATP work, going back over all of the systems info on the 35 and 55, and preparing to do a type ride with a combined ATP and PIC check. I'm thinking June or July, as our work slows after labor day.
Fortunately, we have a couple of very experienced guys at my company who know the planes down to the rivets, and fly the pants off them. It's been a real education.
Yes, I feel blessed.
(oops)
I do have plans to move up, though. I took a break from my ATP studies to finish my FIRC online with American Flyers. Now I'm back to the ATP work, going back over all of the systems info on the 35 and 55, and preparing to do a type ride with a combined ATP and PIC check. I'm thinking June or July, as our work slows after labor day.
Fortunately, we have a couple of very experienced guys at my company who know the planes down to the rivets, and fly the pants off them. It's been a real education.
Yes, I feel blessed.
(oops)
enigma
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rebajetgirl said:I think lawndart has said it quite well!! I'm not here to aurgue with you, but to let some interested people know that we are looking to hire! If it is such a sin to help a fellow pilot out then, so be it! No matter what post you look at regrading jobs, you will have the good with the bad. I just know that we are a one of corporate aviations little known secrets, and if you feel differently, well then ok!
PS> So why are you an FO?? Just wondering?
Rebajetgirl, pardon me ma'am, but does this reply really present the image you would like to show the world?
As you should know, corporate pilots spend more time sitting in the FBO lounge than they spend flying. It doesn't take much to figure out that the timebuilder spends his sit time in the company of his laptop. If I can persuade you to take the time to research his posts, you will learn most of his story, and find that he spends a lot of time helping other people.
I do appreciate your attempt to help other pilots, and the positive inf. you have provided. I spent many an hour at Beaver Lake Aviation back when my boss was on your corporate board. Back then, (early ninetys) your fleet was mainly turbocommodes, flown single pilot. Had I know what you would turn into, I may have tried to move to Arkansas.
regards,
8N
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rebajetgirl
dont be questioning people where they are in the career.
for a 1600tt guy sitting right seat in a Learjet, well I think he's on track.
If your gonna attack him then we are gonna attack back, your sitting left seat of a lear for wallyworld becasue you have boobs. Thats the only reason. Anyone can fly a plane.
dont be questioning people where they are in the career.
for a 1600tt guy sitting right seat in a Learjet, well I think he's on track.
If your gonna attack him then we are gonna attack back, your sitting left seat of a lear for wallyworld becasue you have boobs. Thats the only reason. Anyone can fly a plane.
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