Volcano? KLM flies anyway!!

[ImbracableCrunk]

Thanks for the perspective, flyburg.

 

[StopNTSing]

Suppose this would happen in the US, with the bad economic state the airlines are in. Everyday you look at clear skies, wouldn't you start to question at least the decision. Wouldn't you like to have some confirmation whether it is really as bad as some 'crat says it is? With your job on the line???

Nobody at KLM takes the safety implications for granted!!!

In reference to an earlier post, these were not reserve pilots, but company test pilots. Just like US airlines, pilots specifically trained with a prior background in aviation engineering or ex airforce test pilots, usually trained in Edwards or PAX or Boscombe down. Would you suggest they are not qualified for that task?

Yes, I would. The levels of volcanic ash that are acceptable for safe operations are pretty well understood. The problem is identifying where those areas are, and unless the KLM aircraft were packed with a whole lotta whiz-bang instrumentation not normally found in passenger airliners, then it really doesn't matter if there are a couple of golden arms in the cockpit. I can't speak for Europe, but I know in the States there are a few research aircraft that have the right remote-sensing capabilities (mostly laser-based) to be able to safely and accurately define the size and altitudes of the ash cloud. I would hope that one or more of said aircraft are either speeding to the scene, or are already on station. With that information, you would think EuroControl would then be able to cordon off the unsafe airspace and just have the traffic routed above, below, or around the cloud.....much like a hurricane.

Maybe all this is already happening and the final result is that we are simply dealing with a huge cloud and a stagnant air mass that genuinely has made air travel unsafe for four days (and counting) over an entire continent. But I'm beginning to believe it is just the latest machinations of a paralyzed nanny-state bureaucracy.

 

[flyburg]

Your welcome,

Boy, it sucks though, things were finally looking up. more trainings, people moving up, finally an end to the economic downfall, and now this!!!

Can you imagine this happening in the US!!

Men, I was suppossed to fly the last three days, things have been very hectic. Situation changes from hour to hour. Respect to crew control. Most guys (including myself) have indicated to the company that we are fully ready to forego any stipulations in the CLA to help out.

A crisis like this brings out the best in people!! My wife works in crew control at Transavia and she volunteerd to come in on here day off to help out.

We will see what happens.

 

[labbats]

Say what you will about it, but I haven't done too many test pilot duties with the CEO on board. At least the guy puts his own neck out there.

 

[flyburg]

Yes, I would. The levels of volcanic ash that are acceptable for safe operations are pretty well understood. The problem is identifying where those areas are, and unless the KLM aircraft were packed with a whole lotta whiz-bang instrumentation not normally found in passenger airliners, then it really doesn't matter if there are a couple of golden arms in the cockpit. I can't speak for Europe, but I know in the States there are a few research aircraft that have the right remote-sensing capabilities (mostly laser-based) to be able to safely and accurately define the size and altitudes of the ash cloud. I would hope that one or more of said aircraft are either speeding to the scene, or are already on station. With that information, you would think EuroControl would then be able to cordon off the unsafe airspace and just have the traffic routed above, below, or around the cloud.....much like a hurricane.

Maybe all this is already happening and the final result is that we are simply dealing with a huge cloud and a stagnant air mass that genuinely has made air travel unsafe for four days (and counting) over an entire continent. But I'm beginning to believe it is just the latest machinations of a paralyzed nanny-state bureaucracy.

Hi, My comments were more directed at the reserve pilot statement. Not so much as the gold airm chaired pilots, My personal opinion, they would be very qualified to judge the situation.

But here's a question to you! how would you expect your airline to react to this situation?

Thanks

 

[CoolSidePillow]

And Carnies.....

and regional jet scum and everyone at Republicqua

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Spalding, could it be a Tenerife reference perhaps?

Ding Ding Ding! "We don't need a take-off clearance, set thrust."

 

[lowpitchstop]

Flyburg:

My reference to reserve pilots (which I am from time to time) had nothing to do with their skill level, I posted it because no "lineholding" pilot in their right mind would fly through a HOLE in an ash cloud (even with a CEO onboard) and a junior reserve may feel pressure to "get it done" for they feel their job's on the line.

I've flown many missions to and from Sicily while Mt. Etna was blowing off some steam and can tell you it's not a place to be "experimenting" with people's lives. We did not "blow off" the rules on flying around ash clouds like you eluded you would. Day VFR only upwind and above the cloud.. If you can do that, have at it... $$$$ is important, one aircraft that goes down with cowboy pilots flying it too close to or through it they'll be hell to pay...

 

[pilot error]

so how is a couple of hours flying a valid test? unknown variables, constantly changing concentrations, etc. you need a lot more data than a few hours to determine affect on the engines before you haul pax through it.

 

[twobits]

flyburg. and when KLM makes a profit, will they be sharing it with you? I think you are drinking too much of the kool-aid. Whether the air is clear enough to fly in or not is not my decision, but I would always go with the most conservative view - in this case the individual states that are saying it isn't safe to fly. If you were a politician, and approved flight, and then a plane crashed into a major city because of ash damage; do you think you would be put in jail? um... yes.

My suspicion is that you are a management pilot trying to convince the masses that if you have to show up to work, then everybody else should too.