Virgin America

[Kezwick]

Curious how you guys like it there? How's the sked for newhires? Is reserve long? Good rules for that? How many days off can you expect on reserve? Do most pilots there commute? Just trying to get a feel.

 

[Chairman]

Things are slowly improving although not as fast as most would like. Most of the trips are very efficient and for allow for jr pilots to hold 17-19 days off. Reserve right now has been about 9 months for pilots. Things are going to move pretty quick till next summer then the airplanes stop for about a year. This could mean a lengthy stay on reserve. They try to make reserve commutable for the most part.

 

[hyflyin]

This could mean a lengthy stay on reserve.

It sure will be and when some of the current issues were brought to the SFO base chief about reserve his response was "thats how it was at USAIR for my 17 years on reserve". A real forward thinker, yes? Things better start changing soon or Dave will be making a video for us.

Can't believe we haven't learned anything from JetBlue!

Just sayin

 

[Chairman]

It sure will be and when some of the current issues were brought to the SFO base chief about reserve his response was "thats how it was at USAIR for my 17 years on reserve". A real forward thinker, yes? Things better start changing soon or Dave will be making a video for us.

Can't believe we haven't learned anything from JetBlue!

Just sayin

Totally Agree

 

[Fubijaakr]

Great place if you want to work for substandard wages and FARs for your work rules.

 

[tzskipper]

It sure will be and when some of the current issues were brought to the SFO base chief about reserve his response was "thats how it was at USAIR for my 17 years on reserve". A real forward thinker, yes? Things better start changing soon or Dave will be making a video for us.

Can't believe we haven't learned anything from JetBlue!

Just sayin

Anyone know what the old Airways reserve "rules" were (from the '90's)?

S

 

[N813CA]

don't Virgin to JetBlue. You are wrong.. Sorry but true. I will only give one example. PAY rates.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Great place if you want to work for substandard wages and FARs for your work rules.

Beatings commence on every other Thursday. Grog is handed out only if we meet quarterly incentive goals. We sacrifice virgin Virgins only on full moons. This policy has been strictly enforced. Dogs and cats living together......MASS HYSTERIA!

 

[hyflyin]

Beatings commence on every other Thursday. Grog is handed out only if we meet quarterly incentive goals. We sacrifice virgin Virgins only on full moons. This policy has been strictly enforced. Dogs and cats living together......MASS HYSTERIA!

Exactly!

 

[cmrflyer]

don't Virgin to JetBlue. You are wrong.. Sorry but true. I will only give one example. PAY rates.

Dude, you were at comair when we got the pay cuts. Delta used the jetblue 190 pay rates to show the judge how over paid comair was.
$88 an hour for a 12 year 190 captain!
That was less than four years ago. Your very proud of the new contract, but seem to forget your old contract under cut the regionals by about $30, for a much larger aircraft.

 

[cbrown1]

Do you still need an internal rec to get an interview? Or are they interviewing people off the street?

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Do you still need an internal rec to get an interview? Or are they interviewing people off the street?

Street people have been just as successful as internal recommends.

First step after applying is the online eval, called Previsor, the great equalizer. If you pass that you are ranked for interview. If you interview it is about 40 to 60% getting into the class pool. You are ranked again for being called out of the pool. We are about halfway through a hiring push, then about a year of no growth.

Good luck!

 

[cbrown1]

Street people have been just as successful as internal recommends.

First step after applying is the online eval, called Previsor, the great equalizer. If you pass that you are ranked for interview. If you interview it is about 40 to 60% getting into the class pool. You are ranked again for being called out of the pool. We are about halfway through a hiring push, then about a year of no growth.

Good luck!

Are people getting on without 1000 tpic?
I'm short in that department. I'm probably to late for this round.

 

[hyflyin]

Are people getting on without 1000 tpic?
I'm short in that department. I'm probably to late for this round.

Yes they are and you never know. If your interested put your stuff in.

 

[hyflyin]

don't Virgin to JetBlue. You are wrong.. Sorry but true. I will only give one example. PAY rates.

Both are the same in that neither have representation or are contributing anything to our industry as a whole. No one was comparing work rules, pay or anything else. Jetblue and Virgin, IMHO, are stepping stones to another job worth having.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Jetblue and Virgin, IMHO, are stepping stones to another job worth having.

The problem is by flying narrowbody equipment for a non-Union carrier with substandard wages/work rules, YOU lower the bar. YOU make it harder for US to raise wages and improve work rules.

By undercutting the jobs worth having you're helping to ensure they won't be there when you want to step up.

Think about it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The problem is by flying narrowbody equipment for a non-Union carrier with substandard wages/work rules, YOU lower the bar. YOU make it harder for US to raise wages and improve work rules.

By undercutting the jobs worth having you're helping to ensure they won't be there when you want to step up.

Think about it.

Just whom is it that has been assigned the task of subjectively determining the group responsible for setting this arbitrary wage rate or which job is worth having?

Is it you?

What if an individual has different needs, wants, career desires, etc. that don't tend to jive with your narrow and selfish interpretation of what others need to do to provide you with what you need?

Do doctors go to medical school to enter their field to uphold some mythical bar defined by others and largely by economic metrics and rules of a bygone era? Do lawyers?

Believe me I get where you are coming from but your thinking is somewhat rather anachronistic in the modern world, economy, and certainly the deregulated industry in which we toil.

I hate to burst the bubble of salty old dog, but you need to see the world for what it is. Coming on here and picking on others for making different choices which don't ignore the economic realities of the world is waste of your time and annoying as can be to the rest of us.

You need a hobby. Get of the internet and go live your life. The whole crusader thing is getting a bit old.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Sorry you're too lazy or stupid to stand up for the profession, Pogue.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

The whole crusader thing is getting a bit old.

Someone has to be Don Quixote around here!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Sorry you're too lazy or stupid to stand up for the profession, Pogue.

That is rather ironic Fubi. I thought that leftist National Worker Party Che Guevara types like you were support the lazy and stupid like me in the struggle to compel the corporatist system to capitulate to our needs.

Instead you choose to insult a fellow proletariat you know nothing about.

 

[xjhawk]

Sorry you're too lazy or stupid to stand up for the profession, Pogue.

I have not called anyone a Pogue since my Infantry days while in the Army. Keep up the great humor Fubi! That made my day!

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Believe me I get where you are coming from but your thinking is somewhat rather anachronistic in the modern world, economy, and certainly the deregulated industry in which we toil.

I hate to burst the bubble of salty old dog, but you need to see the world for what it is. Coming on here and picking on others for making different choices which don't ignore the economic realities of the world is waste of your time and annoying as can be to the rest of us.

You need a hobby. Get of the internet and go live your life. The whole crusader thing is getting a bit old.

Nice speech. Now if most of you would lived in Burlingame or San Mateo on your crap VA salary instead of jumpseating in on union carriers from lower cost of living areas. I'd be more impressed.

My airline is too wrapped up in a dogfight. If it wasn't, I'd be pushing for a resolution that any jumpseat agreement is cancelled once an airline goes 3 years without voting in a union after growing to more than 300 pilots in size.

 

[HDA]

Nice speech. Now if most of you would lived in Burlingame or San Mateo on your crap VA salary instead of jumpseating in on union carriers from lower cost of living areas. I'd be more impressed.

My airline is too wrapped up in a dogfight. If it wasn't, I'd be pushing for a resolution that any jumpseat agreement is cancelled once an airline goes 3 years without voting in a union after growing to more than 300 pilots in size.

Plenty of union represented airline pilots ride to work on VA from lower cost of living areas to their bases in SFO and LAX as well. Give them the option of riding on their own company or VA and you can bet they are gonna take VA.
As for your jumpseat idea....spend that effort on grammer school.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Nice speech. Now if most of you would lived in Burlingame or San Mateo on your crap VA salary instead of jumpseating in on union carriers from lower cost of living areas. I'd be more impressed.

My airline is too wrapped up in a dogfight. If it wasn't, I'd be pushing for a resolution that any jumpseat agreement is cancelled once an airline goes 3 years without voting in a union after growing to more than 300 pilots in size.

Write your own resolution and bring it to your local council. Things won't change unless the rank and file changes them.

The problem is ALPA isn't a Union its an Association of individual MECs. If we were a real Union, we wouldn't be offering Union negotiated PRIVILEGES to non-Union pilots.

You don't see a non-Union electrician going to the IBEW hall and asking for a ride out to the job site, do you?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The problem is ALPA isn't a Union its an Association of individual MECs.

Uhhh...ya think?

 

[dingo222]

I have not called anyone a Pogue since my Infantry days while in the Army. Keep up the great humor Fubi! That made my day!

damn pogue's. dont see them out here ruckin up at o dark 30,lol. i got the same laugh!

 

[Lake Alice]

Just whom is it that has been assigned the task of subjectively determining the group responsible for setting this arbitrary wage rate or which job is worth having?

Is it you?

What if an individual has different needs, wants, career desires, etc. that don't tend to jive with your narrow and selfish interpretation of what others need to do to provide you with what you need?

Do doctors go to medical school to enter their field to uphold some mythical bar defined by others and largely by economic metrics and rules of a bygone era? Do lawyers?

Believe me I get where you are coming from but your thinking is somewhat rather anachronistic in the modern world, economy, and certainly the deregulated industry in which we toil.

I hate to burst the bubble of salty old dog, but you need to see the world for what it is. Coming on here and picking on others for making different choices which don't ignore the economic realities of the world is waste of your time and annoying as can be to the rest of us.

You need a hobby. Get of the internet and go live your life. The whole crusader thing is getting a bit old.

You're just a little off in your comparison. Industries who's work forces are predominantly represented by a union use one another as baselines for pay and benefits. It's done so in construction, auto, manufacturing, airlines and many more so therefore the use of the word anachronistic is contextually incorrect. A fair comparison to the medical or legal fields cannot be made as the BAR and AMA do not represent the individual but rather the profession. The professions themselves, in both cases, do set an industry standard for wages or fees just not in a formal setting associated with a CBA.

Virgin America's lack of a proper compensation package does affect the industry. They know it, we know it. A certain amount of the industries woes can be attributed to the Jetblues, Airtrans and Vrigins of the industry. In fact how Jetblue wasn't initially found guilty of predatory pricing is beyond me. Clearly I don't understand the law.
The reason people complain more about Jetblue than a regional is a regional pays practically nothing but still charged mainline ticket prices. Jetblue initially paid nothing for a domestic narrow body pilot AND charged substantially less for tickets. This is where Virgin America stands today.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Buille faoi thuairim mé nach labhraíonn tú Gaeilge.


I appreciate the rapier wit needed to find the double entendre to such an obscure term. One that hundreds of thousands if not millions of us in the military have used for the last 75 years or so. Congratulations all around, that was indeed cause for a hearty guffaw.


Anois, cén fáth nach dtéann tú fear greannmhar nach mbíonn gnéas béil le chéile.

Slainte.

 

[Lake Alice]

Buille faoi thuairim mé nach labhraíonn tú Gaeilge.


I appreciate the rapier wit needed to find the double entendre to such an obscure term. One that hundreds of thousands if not millions of us in the military have used for the last 75 years or so. Congratulations all around, that was indeed cause for a hearty guffaw.


Anois, cén fáth nach dtéann tú fear greannmhar nach mbíonn gnéas béil le chéile.

Slainte.

No sir I do not. As for the last phrase I suspect something rude.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

No sir I do not. As for the last phrase I suspect something rude.

LA. I am sorry my post was sent whilst you were replying with what is an intelligent and rationale perspective in discussions such as this. I apologize if in anyway the timing implied that I was providing a retort to your comments. I was directing them specifically toward the mean-spirited comments provided some others in this thread with reference to taking my moniker out of context.

I appreciate thoughtful insights and discussions about the industry, the effects of deregulation on the pattern bargaining process by which wage rates have been historically set, and so too the how deregulation has tended to make that process rather arcane. You see, the economic pressures brought to bear on different companies, and therefore labor, vary significantly and have rendered pattern bargaining theory useless, other than perhaps as a means for pilots to measure the respective size of their dongs, and provide some basis for people like Fubi to draw subjective comparisons in compensation as the basis for insulting others or placing blame for his lack of career fulfillment.

This of course has be exacerbated by a obvious factor that Fubi stated that the process is undertaken not by a union but a collection of disparate tribes with varying needs and levels of economic power to weild against their respective employers in their desire to set higher wage and compensation rates.

The simple fact is that unless the RLA goes away and national trade union is established that will alleviate the problems that malcontents like Fubi bemoan, the situation is what it is and whining and insulting others won't "fix" anything. The industry is what it is and angry tirades are not going to change the game.

For an historical example of the futility of ideological fights that can't be won and generally have some rather unpleasant unintended consequences, one only need to look back to the third man in the cockpit debacle. Of course there are plenty of examples...the autoworkers....railway workers etc.

It's time to quit placing blame and invent solutions. The rest is just pointless whining in the big picture.

Cheers.