Virgin America Revenue...

[Ralph Cramden]

Is VX hiring?

Yes..

 

[Lake Alice]

NE

You worked for an ALPA carrier that provided you with medical, retirement, safety, training and the ability to build time. You were not provided with industry leading salary.
For all the complaints you have regarding ALPA and it's policies I must point out you wouldn't be at VX without the SLP you worked for. Without a major agreeing to outsource flying to your SLP you would probably still be years behind where you are now.

If you understood finances a little better you would know under deregulation a Major cannot fly a 319 into Omaha or equivalent to smaller size markets and make a profit. In order for these communities to be served an SLP was contracted. Could the majors themselves flown those aircraft like Air Canada does, yes, but as Air Canada has learned these aircraft are unprofitable regardless of the load.

Part of your rant is in response to Fubi. We all get that. The rest is harboring on ignorance. Pilots want to protect their jobs. VX's is a bane on the industry. Jetblue was.

 

[NEDude]

NE

You worked for an ALPA carrier that provided you with medical, retirement, safety, training and the ability to build time. You were not provided with industry leading salary.
For all the complaints you have regarding ALPA and it's policies I must point out you wouldn't be at VX without the SLP you worked for. Without a major agreeing to outsource flying to your SLP you would probably still be years behind where you are now.

If you understood finances a little better you would know under deregulation a Major cannot fly a 319 into Omaha or equivalent to smaller size markets and make a profit. In order for these communities to be served an SLP was contracted. Could the majors themselves flown those aircraft like Air Canada does, yes, but as Air Canada has learned these aircraft are unprofitable regardless of the load.

Part of your rant is in response to Fubi. We all get that. The rest is harboring on ignorance. Pilots want to protect their jobs. VX's is a bane on the industry. Jetblue was.

Actually most of my experience came at the hands of a non-union carrier mostly doing flying that never belonged to the majors - flying a BE-1900 to rural communities. I held the high ground for many years and refused to go fly RJs on mainline routes because I felt they were stealing jobs. Many people, including mainline pilots felt this way as well. However ALL PILOTS (don't kid yourself) are in it for themselves, and there is no unity in this profession. There are only people who got lucky and those who were not so lucky. I did go fly RJs for a short period of time, but took the first opportunity to get out and go do independent flying again, not outsourced flying that used to belong to someone else.

I find it funny that you seem to overlook the fact that part of the economies that allowed for the massive expansion of RJs was in part created by pilots. DALPA allowed these near mainline sized jets to be outsourced to pilots making pennies on the dollar - that affects the economic production of that airplane. It is is not the entirety of the operating costs, but it is the largest controllable factor. Delta was perceived by the other carriers to get an economic edge by doing so and thus began to push for their own scope relief, and the pilot groups caved. The fact that you choose to ignore that part of the history of RJs means you will repeat the same mistake in the future. Hopefully more union members recognize the mistakes of the past.


I have fubi on my ignore list, so I can't see what he has been writing. But I do find it funny that he is has been preaching about being high and mighty and hating start-ups who undercut, only to find out he got his job with Alaska because they pushed for de-regulation so they could expand by undercutting other carriers. Just another reason to keep him on the ignore list.

 

[Lake Alice]

Any flying you did in a 1900 was still outsourced flying whether its in a Jet or on a "mainline" route. You benefited from the very relationship you now rail upon.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Part of your rant is in response to Fubi. We all get that. The rest is harboring on ignorance. Pilots want to protect their jobs. VX's is a bane on the industry. Jetblue was.

All of his rant is directed at me. When I criticized VX for its non-Union status, he read non-ALPA.

FAIL.

In response, he goes on the attack about outsourcing. And highlights his ignorance by accusing AKALPA of rolling over on the QX/SKW outsource.

EPIC FAIL.

Add to that he's a VX pilot.

HISTORIC FAIL.

Strike three, you're out Dude.

 

[waveflyer]

Any flying you did in a 1900 was still outsourced flying whether its in a Jet or on a "mainline" route. You benefited from the very relationship you now rail upon.

Benefitted?

How was it better to fly a 1900 for an outsourced carrier than to fly it for the major who's name was painted on the tail? Legacy airlines started out flying B-247's and dc-3's, when did they get it in their head that flying a turboprop wasn't glamorous enough?

All outsourcing does is make it harder to get a foot in the door at the stable well paid job- and guarantees constant whipsawing so that turboprop job will never be that good- it's no benefit at all. The minimum qualifications just raise up for any job worth having

This is a piece of logic so basic to the outsourcing argument, so dumb and void of thought and responsibility, that I have to literally take a deep breath or three to avoid slapping the person.

Another opportunity to practice patience.

 

[Lake Alice]

Don't get your panties in a wad. Your boy NEdude is stumping on the madness that is a regional aircraft flying routes for a mainline carrier. How poverty wages are the norm and how terrible ALPA is at fault. If you flew for a regional carrier to build time that is your problem and don't complain about using that carrier as a stepping stone.
As for the B-247's and DC-3's or a turbo prop being glamorous who cares. The argument is regionals cannot pay because they don't bring in the revenue. SLP's are third party contractors and that's it. The wage scale is not there. No one gives a sheet whether you think its glamorous or not.
Mainline carriers aren't going to fly 1900's. This concept seems awfully difficult for some to grasp.

 

[Lake Alice]

You pissed off RJ guys need to go back to school and take a class in economics and common sense.

 

[NEDude]

Any flying you did in a 1900 was still outsourced flying whether its in a Jet or on a "mainline" route. You benefited from the very relationship you now rail upon.

Umm no it wasn't. It was at risk flying on a network set up by my airline's management, not by a mainline carrier. It was not in and out of a mainline hub, there was no capacity purchase agreement/fee for departure with a mainline carrier, and it was not on routes that used to be flown by a mainline carrier.

As much as you think Virgin, or JetBlue, or Allegiant is a drag on the industry, we are no more so than any other airline. Are you really ignorant enough to think Virgin is the only airline guilty of using de-regulation to undercut fares of other carriers and expand? As we have learned Alaska is itself very guilty of that. United/Continental has a very nice EWR hub built by a de-regulation start-up. A large percentage of the current USAirways is a result of a de-regulation start-up. United has been trying to undercut American and vice versa in Chicago for 30+ years. There are countless more examples.

Your argument against Virgin America (or Allegiant, or JetBlue) is not based on fact, logic or rational thought. It is purely a selfish emotional rant based on the fact that you got yours and feel threatened by others getting theirs, that it somehow makes you less "special". Because EVERY airline in the post regulation era has been trying to undercut others, and cut expenses. Most of the surviving ones have benefited from the infrastructure created by start-ups and used chapter 11 to survive and operate at a loss in order to keep market share. You are a fool if you believe otherwise and a hypocrite for bashing other airlines for doing EXACTLY what you carrier has been doing.

 

[Lake Alice]

I'm employed by Jetblue. How the airline wasn't found guilty of predatory pricing shortly after it's inception is beyond me. What the pilot group has done is fight for better pay and benefits. We are no longer the bottom, you are. However, this discussion has turned to the regionals. If you flew a 1900 for a commuter you operated under the umbrella of a larger carrier. You did not, at any point regardless of where you flew, set your own ticket prices. You operated under the banner of another carrier. This is what makes you a hypocrite. You rail against regionals and majors for creating the regional market yet you flew for one in order to gain experience to move on. You did what half the industry did. They used it for what its worth while you sit atop your pedestal.

Airlines undercut one another based on route. Jetblue did so in the past but it made money. VX undercuts EVERY other airline yet does not turn a profit. There is a big difference here. If VX pays its employee what is considered industry standard, as per your financial reports, you would go out of business. I'm not looking for you to lose your job but those are facts.