Virgin America Revenue...

[MBCP]

I suppose you have many examples of non union airlines that have been stapled or have lost their jobs do to lack of scope. I can list thousands of ALPA pilots that lost their jobs to scope relaxation.

Are you really arguing that scope is a bad thing? SWAPA pilots have a strong scope clause that has protected their jobs and allowed them the leverage they have to be paid well and have their jobs protected.

Virgin America and JetBlue pilots have NO scope protection. And you are actually arguing that that's a good thing. I hate to call people names on here, but you, my friend, are an idiot.

 

[aircombat]

Are you really arguing that scope is a bad thing?

You completely missed my argument. Scope is good. Saying that ALPA upholds scope is laughable. You are paying for false protection. As you pointed out only in house unions have been successful in that area. Airlines with unions, especially ALPA, are the only ones that scope out work. They do it to limit the reach of the unions. ALPA=expect your job to be scoped out. If you have examples to the contrary I'm still listening.

 

[jayme]

I'm pretty sure you don't know how scope works.

The union scopes out work, not the company.

They do that to limit what the company can outsource.

For example, Delta can't sell a seat on a plane with a Delta flight number operated by another airline unless the pilots sign off on it. Delta pilots are ALPA. DAPLA, unfortunately, did sign away some of their scope. What exists keeps current Delta pilot jobs more secure than they would be without their scope clause.

 

[MBCP]

What he said. That's the whole reason why Skywest CRJ 900's don't have 90 seats, and why Skywest doesn't fly 737's. ALPA-negotiated scope.

 

[hyflyin]

Wave, I hear you loud & clear on the fear of status quo issue. We have a lot of young guys with the mindset of "no way around it, get it over with now" so I am not worried about this tactic. The company traditionally announces the mid year pay raise early in the year, and this year there are rumors coming from management types that we will be brought up to average in order to better compete for pilots and stem the growing attrition. We will see if those rumors are going to pan out, as management themselves have set the expectation level high.

As to you signature line, I disagree! While this year LSU and Bama were 1 for 1 (but the rematch was pretty decisive), last year Auburn ran the table. War Damn Eagle! (and yes, the BCS needs fixing)

We must be reading different company threads because our largest kool aid drinker published this post from DC last december,"the board has already agreed around a $5 per hour increase for all pilots next year".

We will be no near "industry standard" in 2012 nor probably 2015 for that matter.

It is time for us to take control of our futures or we will be light years behind, just like Jetblue.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Their scope protection is not having ALPA on property. The threat of a union is much more powerful than having a union and it's free..

Wow, two inaccuracies in two sentences. As others have pointed out, get yourself in trouble, have a legal or medical issue or want stable, negotiated pay rates and that 1.9% is a bargain.

Before the haters jump in with "It's not the Co. but the pilots that deserve it", we will do this on OUR TERMS!

I agree. If you continue to try to do it on your individual terms, you do deserve what you get. However, what you get drags down what I get and I don't deserve that consequence of your folly.

Are you really arguing that scope is a bad thing? SWAPA pilots have a strong scope clause that has protected their jobs and allowed them the leverage they have to be paid well and have their jobs protected.

Exactly.

Virgin America and JetBlue pilots have NO scope protection. And you are actually arguing that that's a good thing. I hate to call people names on here, but you, my friend, are an idiot.

Again, exactly right. Although in jetBlue's case they negated the need by flying the 100 seaters on their own seniority list.

 

[pilotpm]

I agree. If you continue to try to do it on your individual terms, you do deserve what you get. However, what you get drags down what I get and I don't deserve that consequence of your folly.

Again, I could give a rats @ss what you think. I care only what I and my fellow VX pilots think.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Again, I could give a rats @ss what you think. I care only what I and my fellow VX pilots think.

Obviously. None of you care for anyone but yourselves. Hopefully, I'll be long gone before the consequences of your actions come home to roost on the airline piloting profession.

You're making your bed...you're going to have to sleep in it.

 

[ASADFW7]

Here is where Fubijaakr is taking the comparisons to slant to their thinking. Every time there is a start up all the pilots start at the bottom and work their way up. Many of those pilots are professionally trained from other airlines. The pay rates are not great but they are better than being out of the industry. Many start ups now are niche and low cost carriers. Their market percentage begins with a fraction of the market. Yes they have an impact on the market, however beating down the individual is not always the best way to make your point. Collectively, there are many efforts to help other carriers organize when asked. The environments are hostile when trying to organize a union. It is easier to throw stones from the outside then make decisions when it is the food on your kitchen table that matters too.

The tactic of belittling others is not drawing people to your thinking. It is simply poor communication, and recruitment technique and shows limited appeal and empathy towards others.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

We must be reading different company threads because our largest kool aid drinker published this post from DC last december,"the board has already agreed around a $5 per hour increase for all pilots next year".

We will be no near "industry standard" in 2012 nor probably 2015 for that matter.

It is time for us to take control of our futures or we will be light years behind, just like Jetblue.

hyflyin,

I read that thread as well and agree it doesn't jive with the direct comment to me from a flight ops manager. Time will tell which one of them is right, and I am guessing DC is closer to the truth.