ual- you're completely committed to blaming other much much smaller companies than realizing that as a member of a 10,000 pilot work force you've had much more influence on VA wages than any pilot applying there.
The only people who have
direct "influence" on VA pilot wages right now are VA pilots. We tried to influence ALL pilot wages with Contract 2000, but apparently those wages were "too high" for the LCC's at the time. The legacies lost the ability to price airline pilot wages several years ago with the advent of the LCC's becoming credible competitors.
Until you see how you (ALPA) (APA) and our whole system creates this environment, nothing will change
ALPA, APA, perhaps SWAPA are the only organizations that will make a concerted effort to build upon what we have and/or hold onto what little we have gained. Certainly you're not arguing that JetBlue, VA, allegiant, Skybus2 pilots are ever going to raise the bar, are you? They'll ride (and pull on) the coat tails of the Union carriers and that's about it. However, if you hate ALPA, APA, SWAPA, unions in general, or whatever, feel free to blame them. They're the blame for just about everything. Just ask anyone.
.....logical conclusion to a system in which United is largely responsible for. Of course the pay is bad- so ask yourself- why would any pilot CHOOSE that? As the most influential player in this business-= how has UAL helped to create it? Worry about things YOU control.
We WERE probably one of the most influential in the business. Not anymore. Now whatever credible competitor can pay their employees the least becomes influential.
And United is largely responsible for VA pilots flying A320's for 90 bucks an hour or Skybus guys having done it for 60? United, and others, tried to build upon what others did years ago, only to be massively undercut. All UAL (or any legacy) can do is hope to build upon what we have, or hold onto what we have and hope that wages at undercutting airlines like VA don't become the "new bar" that the entire industry is forced down to.
And I have never said the ship sinks or swims based on pilot pay- You have, however.
I have. And I'll say it again. If a credible competitor has pilot labor costs significantly lower than that of UA or DAL or whoever, the latter is screwed. Airlines paying their pilots $200+ hour + a B fund + a pension + great work rules will suffer tremendously at an A320 operator flying it's Airbus Captians for a hundred bucks an hour, no retirement, and no work rules. Look no further than several years ago for an example of the repercussions of such behavior.
Further, if that competitor's pilot labor costs are extremely low, the other employee group's certainly will be as well. You have to remember that airlines are not entities that can absorb costs that are "out of whack" in any form. Since an airline's largest
controllable costs are labor, that certainly is a cost that CAN AND WILL sink the ship.
And if you're disgareeing with me fine. I guess I would wonder, then, is if pilot pay "doesn't matter," then why do management teams at airlines like Virgin, Allegiant, Skybus, JetBlue, etc., set it so low? If pilot pay "doesn't matter," couldn't just Virgin America management just set Virgin pilot Captain pay rates to the lowest of the legacy's? I mean, you guys say that Virgin management is fantastic and that you have a great pilot-managment relationship but..........what you're telling me is that Virgin management
could pay your Captains more (for example) and just don't respect your pilot group enough to do so? Or just doesn't feel like it? Or......what? If it pilot pay doesn't matter, why don't they just throw you a bone instead of paying your Captains 90 bucks an hour? I mean, c'mon, they couldn't even set the Captain pay rates to UAL's rates with a B&C fund contribution? Don't they respect you guys enough to pay "lowly" UAL pilot Captain rates?
Or maybe pilot pay DOES matter and that's why airlines like Virgin set it so low? Something to think about I guess.
And no- UAL management would NOT be happy w/ you if you flew for $95/hour-(Christ, they already cut your pay in half and stole your pensions-- you still keep showing up to work at those wages- is anyone happier?) and the culture there certainly would not change. If you flew for a $1- they would be arguing to pay you 75cents and you and I both know it all too well.
Are you kidding me? They'd be THRILLED if we walked into our next contract negotiations and offered to fly at VA's rates. If that was our opener, we'd have the contract done in a week. AND, as a bonus, we'd have a FANTASTIC pilot/management relationship for being such great "team players."
Doesn't matter anyway. For my own personal safety

, I'm not going to try to pass a resolution at my next Union meeting directing our MEC to direct our negotiation committee to shoot for the "lofty" goal of VA pilot wages in DEC '09. I think I would be hung and quartered, and probably rightfully so.