Virgin America Approved

[Beetle007]

Im not sure if greeting them with open arms is how you encourage them to unionize. Go into any other unionized industry and offer to work for half the wages and see what happens.

Why not simply ONLY have jumpseat agreements with other unionized airlines. I think that would be more of a motivation for airlines to unionize.

Although this would probably backfire because then they (non-union pilots) would all live in base and be much happier than the rest of us =). Of course, the cost of living is rather high in California for those Virgin America pilots. Maybe they would demand higher wages if they didn't have jumpseat benefits.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Some of you union guys are worse than Mormons, Evangelical Christians, and Emperor P-ALPA-tine in your efforts to convert the non-union guys. It's quite entertaining.

As long as I'm chuckling at my own joke...

Emperor P-ALPA-tine...new nickname for Capt. John Prater?

 

[AA717driver]

Like someone else mentioned - it's like giving a thief a ride to your bank so he can rob it. I'm sure many thief's have families and are nice folks also.

But you guys at NWA/Compass are taking money out of other pilot's pockets. APA is gonna have to fight their management because they hold out YOUR contract as "the competition". TC

 

[ualdriver]

Im not sure if greeting them with open arms is how you encourage them to unionize. Go into any other unionized industry and offer to work for half the wages and see what happens.

Why not simply ONLY have jumpseat agreements with other unionized airlines. I think that would be more of a motivation for airlines to unionize.

Although this would probably backfire because then they (non-union pilots) would all live in base and be much happier than the rest of us =). Of course, the cost of living is rather high in California for those Virgin America pilots. Maybe they would demand higher wages if they didn't have jumpseat benefits.

Beetle007, I agree with you. I don't know who you work for but perhaps you should pass a resolution at your next council meeting stating that you do not believe that your unionized carrier should have reciprocal jumpseats with non-union carriers? You don't even have to be at the council meeting to floor a resolution.

 

[A350]

Yeah, I am sure you would like to proffer that resolution at the next UAL council meeting......see how far you get with that one.

You see, in a jumpseat war, EVERYONE loses. It doesn't matter whether you commute or not. If you screw another pilot out of a ride home, to work, or God forbid something worse like a family emergency, it will come back to you in spades. The only people you will hurt is your fellow crew members.

Our pilot forefathers would roll over in their graves if they heard the $hite that drools from your mouths.....Tools to the last one of you.

Enjoy what you have sown.

A350

 

[ualdriver]

Yeah, I am sure you would like to proffer that resolution at the next UAL council meeting......see how far you get with that one.

You see, in a jumpseat war, EVERYONE loses. It doesn't matter whether you commute or not. If you screw another pilot out of a ride home, to work, or God forbid something worse like a family emergency, it will come back to you in spades. The only people you will hurt is your fellow crew members.

Our pilot forefathers would roll over in their graves if they heard the $hite that drools from your mouths.....Tools to the last one of you.

Enjoy what you have sown.

A350

My war isn't with the pilots. My war is with the managements, especially at non-union carriers that insult my peers with 65K/year Airbus Captain positions. I don't think that an ALPA jumpseat should be used to enable these managments to properly staff their airlines with pathetically low wages. Pilots commute nowadays because the pay is SO LOW that it doesn't make sense for one to uproot his/her family to move for a 95K/yr. Airbus Captain job in SFO, for example. Not a problem for this new generation of robber baron managements, however. You're friendly neighborhood ALPA/SWAPA/Teamster union pilot will make sure that his underpaid employee will get to work on time!

If that Skybus or Virgin pilot has the theoretical "family emergency" then perhaps his/her employer can "take care of their own" and make sure that said employee gets to where he/she needs to go with a positive space ticket? Maybe that's how an airline should treat its professionals?

 

[A350]

ualdriver:

What rock did you just crawl out from under?

There have been high and low paid UNION pilots all over the country for some time now.

SWA pilots were some of the lowest paid pilots in the industry for years, especially when it came to their major airline counterparts. And they are UNION......

You see, union doesn't guarantee anything. ALPA itself has high paid and low paid pilots flying the same equipment. Go look at airline pilot central and look at some of the union rates out there.

Again, you need to wake up and smell what you shovel. The only robber baron management I know of is at these bankrupt mainline carriers who steal from their employees and line their pockets with the difference. (insert UAL, DAL, AAA, and NWA.) Then they conveniently blame JB, AAI, and any other LCC out there for their problems. And you buy into it.

BTW...I am sure it is in your ALPA contract that if you have to get to the most obscure point on the map for a family emergency that your airline will pay for you to get there.

A350

 

[Beetle007]

Our pilot forefathers would roll over in their graves if they heard the $hite that drools from your mouths.....Tools to the last one of you. Enjoy what you have sown.

A350

I was talking to my grandpa this weekend (Retired Eastern Pilot) and he was surprised my company had a jumpseat agreement with Delta. He said that Delta never had a jumpseat agreement with Eastern (due to hostility). My point - Hostility is nothing new to this industry. No one is rolling over in any graves.

Legacy airlines (and other unionized airlines) are not obligated to offer jumpseat agreements with any airline trying to further undercut the industry. Non-union airlines are a threat to unionized airlines and should be treated as such.

There is nothing morally wrong with Virgin America or their pilots (this is America), but there is also nothing morally wrong for admonishing pilots for further undercutting the industry (again - this is America).

A jumpseat war is when you deny someone from an airline with a legitimate jumpseat agreement. I would never advocate this. I am saying there shouldn’t be a jumpseat agreement in the first place.

 

[Huck]

Wasn't the hostility because Delta couldn't reciprocate?

My pop was NWA and he quit jumpseating on EAL for the same reason - catching sh!t because NWA didn't have jumpseat rights at the time....

As for the LCC's - I was at Gemini when we unionized. ONE GUY getting denied by an ALPA captain and it would have hurt our organizing. Jesus - you'd think we'd be guying these guys beers and throwing parties, trying to get them into the fold.

The bottom line - you honestly think an unemployed pilot, stacking lumber at Home Depot, is going to turn down ANY flying job just because he'll have trouble jumpseating? Has it been that long ago for some of you, since you were looking for a job?

 

[hawk996]

Thanks for the education guys, I now know that the LCC cost me my job at brand "X" and had nothing to do with the over paid management team that ran it into the ground. The LCC airlines held all the major airline pilot hostage until they voted yes on their pay cutting contracts.

Don't hate the players, hate the game.

Alpa did nothing to help me find a new job when my Alpa carrier kicked us to the curb. A non-union carrier had a "FREE" job fair to help us out. All Alpa had to offer was a High-Cost magizine subscribtion to make my morning study time pass by!

Once again, Thanks for the education guys. I'll quit my job next week at my non-union carrier so you can sleep better.