Virgin America Approved

[Yuppyguppy]

Hey Ty how quickly you forget who raised the bar. After our legacy C11's you guys got your contract that wasn't even close to ours over at UAL, CAL, CAL and NWA. You've gone over 2 1/2 years without a new contract...that's embarassing totally. You want to start picking fights how about raising the bar over there at Citrus and helping us all out instead of Good ole forklift Joe waiting until AMR, CAL, UAL guys get back some money and benefits before he negotiates so you guys can undercut us again...Talk about jumpseats hell if I ever see some of those scabs I flew with over there I will personally throw them off myself...otherwise I had fun with most of the captains over there. Don't rip the legacy guys get your contract settled and take care of business.

 

[BenderGonzales]

eh (shrug). If we deny THEM the jumpseat then we have to deny it to just about every regional flying a DC9 replacement-jet for pennies on the 1999 dollar.

Not worth it. You can't fight city hall.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Great, bring on the Whores!! "No, it's a great place to work, the pay will come with time, but a great place to work" Whore!

 

[AA717driver]

Great, bring on the Whores!! "No, it's a great place to work, the pay will come with time, but a great place to work" Whore!

We're all whores. We just have different prices on the menu. TC

 

[A350]

Only a stiff would advocate a jumpseat war.....no matter what the pay, the union, or the carrier.

Keep it up. The tactics you advocate will keep management in the drivers seat for years.

Sleep well, son. I doubt you commute. Another tool who wants a guy who was doing this job when he was in grammar school to sell his house and work at Home Depot to help him make more flying the jets that replaced hundreds if not thousands at the mainline carrier.

Yikes.

A350

 

[9rj9]

take a look in the mirror

No one is talking AT or the Feeds that fly at industry rates. If you don't see the issue with a group of pilots flying 130 seat jets at 70 seat wages I don't know what to tell you. Allegient or Midwest (and AT) are niche players. Skybus and VA are a lower form of JB and are out to change the industry paradigm just as JB did, but another order of magnitude lower. For all the chest thumping about how JB or AT pays more than legacies now, that was not the case before JB helped shift the curve. As to JS wars, no I don't advocate that as normal policy. I also firmly believe that the JS is a negotiated privilege, not a birthright. I have heard LCC pilots talk with glee about they are going to put XYZ legacy out of business with their all too trendy wave of the future airline. Why should we give them a ride to work to accomplish that goal?

Why not encourge them to join the Union instead of blaming them for the legacy woes. AirTran, Jetblue and the like didn't cause USair, UA, NW, DL to go bankrupt; poor management, business model shifted and they were slow to respond. While wages may be the first or second biggest expense, the actual difference between legacy and LCC is small. I think its mostly ego, the legacy doesn't want to give up one pax to a new LCC route and will spend millions to save a nickel. Why not blame Delta, half of their flying is done by a regional partner, they gave up the 70 seat scope and soon will give the 100 seat to the lowest bidder. USair gave it all away, retirement and pay lower than JB.
So take a look in the mirror before you start a jumpseat war, you just might end up with a wage war.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

whore

 

[xray678]

I disagree about using the jumpseat as a weapon. Airlines like Virgin or Skybus are detrimental not only to our pay scales, but they will end up hurting all the established carriers in the industry. I have no problem with someone starting a new airline. I do have a problem with the pilots who accept those jobs at way below the going rate.

It would be a whole lot harder for Virgin to get pilots at the wages they are offering if those pilots could not commute to work on our airlines. Sorry, but no Virgin or Skybus pilot will be getting a ride on my jumpseat.

 

[Fly4hire]

Why not encourage them to join the Union instead of blaming them for the legacy woes.......AirTran, Jetblue and the like didn't cause USair, UA, NW, DL to go bankrupt; poor management, business model shifted and they were slow to respond.

I'm not blaming them - but they are a significant contributing factor. The legacy carriers did not adapt quickly enough to a changing environment that included the LCC's, and the LCC's had the advantage of low initial costs, in significant part due to their wages and extremely favorable leases (those low initial cost are coming home to roost in spades at JB). The legacies saw they had to remake themselves to compete with the LCC, including wages and benefits. To say JB and new LCC entrants have no impact is hogwash. For JB and AT pilots to say you are just as low as us is completely disingenuous and naive. To blame the pilots who accepted these concessionary contracts under Ch 11 is even more pernicious coming from pilots at the LCC's who accepted these wages as they sung kum-ba-ya with the LCC managements.

While wages may be the first or second biggest expense, the actual difference between legacy and LCC is small. I think its mostly ego, the legacy doesn't want to give up one pax to a new LCC route and will spend millions to save a nickel

Funny, NWA has lower operating costs and higher yields than JB as we emerge from Ch 11.

While hard to separate here, it's not the pilots I blame, however they are combatants at an enemy corporation. Our respective employers would like nothing more than to point to the ULLC's (ultra low cost carrier) as the model they have to follow to stay competitive. Again VA and Skybus represent a completely different threat than do the feeders or small niche carriers. These guys are out to remake the industry as much as JB did.

If we don't make a concerted effort to ensure that carriers of the likes of VA and Skybus do not succeed with the help of benevolent pilots giving them a free ride to work we will continue to look at the downward spiral of pattern bargaining.

Nothing personal to the pilots who work there, but nothing would be better for this industry for the LCC model to collapse. (That's OK, I know you were counting on the death of the legacy's for your benefit) There are some hopeful signs this may be underway at JB.

Give em' a ride to work? It's about a lot more than just being nice to another aviator.......

 

[A350]

Holy $hite.....a NWA guy crooning about a UNION?

You guys flew right through a major strike by your brother and sister UNION mechanics and you want to start a jumpseat war with the LCC's?

Don't look now, but I think you just sunk to a new low.

Where do you think JB and AT found some of these eager new pilots? They are castaways from the legacies. Again, you want us to sit on the sidelines and help you recover your lost wages and bennies when you discarded most of us like yesterday's junk mail? I think not.

Giving another professional the courtesy of a ride to work or a ride home has always been OUTSIDE the realm of competition. He/she is just another schlep trying to do his job and provide for his family. If you don't like how we are doing it, you are entitled to your opinion. In the meantime, you are always welcome to ride with me, even though the NWA guys have been less than nice to some of my brothers.

A350