Venezuelan Russian-made Flankers

[mzaharis]

No exchange tours and have never flown and Eagle with the GE. The numbers being what they are (more thrust from a lighter engine) I would rather have it over the PW even though it's not as reliable. I have fought enough BLK 30 / 50 Vipers to know it's a good engine (even though the BLK 30 guys were clean and never in a combat drag index / configuration).

A while back, Flight International reported the possibility that the F-15C's might be upgraded with -229s. Given the USAF's procurement priorities, I wonder if it would ever happen, but it might even up thing a bit.

 

[BiffF15]

A while back, Flight International reported the possibility that the F-15C's might be upgraded with -229s. Given the USAF's procurement priorities, I wonder if it would ever happen, but it might even up thing a bit.

I doubt that would happen. First, the USAF just finished upgrading from the F100-100 to the -220 standard (or is almost done). To go to a complete new engine would be cost prohibitive (would take money from the F22 / F35.
It would be nice though!

 

[NewmanF16]

There was talk a few years back to reengine all the 220E F-16s with 229s (at least the Blk 32s and 42s--block 25s don't have a common congifuration engine bay). That would've freed up engines for the F-15 fleet. Like all good ideas an operator would like to see come to fruition, this one died as well, much like the thrust vectoring nozzle for the Viper.

 

[BiffF15]

There was talk a few years back to reengine all the 220E F-16s with 229s (at least the Blk 32s and 42s--block 25s don't have a common congifuration engine bay). That would've freed up engines for the F-15 fleet. Like all good ideas an operator would like to see come to fruition, this one died as well, much like the thrust vectoring nozzle for the Viper.

Actually a couple of Guard / Reserve Viper units did do this. A portion of each sister squadron was changed over. I have an Eagle bud flying in one of them and he said the 229 is NICE.

 

[SIG600]

Mmmmmm. Knots.

 

[BiffF15]

A while back, Flight International reported the possibility that the F-15C's might be upgraded with -229s. Given the USAF's procurement priorities, I wonder if it would ever happen, but it might even up thing a bit.

I think at one time PW made a pitch to use a -229 core with the -220 fan / burner section to get more thrust at a lessor cost. Not sure what ever happened with that.
After the structural failure that STL had I doubt the USAF will be giving the light grays anymore thrust.

 

[mzaharis]

I think at one time PW made a pitch to use a -229 core with the -220 fan / burner section to get more thrust at a lessor cost. Not sure what ever happened with that.
After the structural failure that STL had I doubt the USAF will be giving the light grays anymore thrust.

I found the article (from September 11, 2001), and it listed an "unfunded" proposal to add -229s to the remaining 220-engined F-15E's. Nothing about C's. Bad memory on my part. And, it's so old, I'm sure any upgrade plans have gone through 30 iterations (are APG-63(v)3s still on?).

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/2001/2001%20-%203141.html

BTW, Flight International has an astounding archive - practically every page they ever printed is available in PDF format. Found this article in a few minutes.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/2001/2001 - 3141.html

 

[BiffF15]

I found the article (from September 11, 2001), and it listed an "unfunded" proposal to add -229s to the remaining 220-engined F-15E's. Nothing about C's. Bad memory on my part. And, it's so old, I'm sure any upgrade plans have gone through 30 iterations (are APG-63(v)3s still on?).

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/2001/2001%20-%203141.html

BTW, Flight International has an astounding archive - practically every page they ever printed is available in PDF format. Found this article in a few minutes.

http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/2001/2001 - 3141.html

The C/D requires a mod to install the 229. They did a 229 on a B model, saw it at the bone yard. It was supposed to be a G machine.

 

[DaveGriffin]

After Gen. Carlson's "politically incorrect", if possibly strategically correct, public statement (when he said that the air force would find a way to get around the Pentagon to get 380 Raptors, and joked that 380 Raptors were "a compromise" from their desired 381), the Air Force is looking for a compromise, and are asking by saying, "Pretty please with sugar on top."

<H3>USAF Leaders Prefer More F-22 Raptors


Mar 6, 2008
By Michael Bruno
Prodded specifically by the Senate Armed Services Committee chairman for their personal opinions, U.S. Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne and chief Gen. T. Michael Moseley allowed that their own preferences would be for additional F-22 Raptor fighters and an alternative Joint Strike Fighter engine.
The top two Air Force leaders repeatedly stressed their support for President Bush's fiscal 2009 budget request and outyear defense budget planning. Moreover, during the Wednesday hearing in front of the SASC they noted profound efforts to "salute smartly" in response to all budget-making guidance from White House and Pentagon superiors.
But explicitly asked by Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) to offer their personal assessments, Wynne and Moseley made clear their own desires for more Raptors and an alternative JSF engine. The Air Force leaders suggested the SASC chairman ask them for their personal opinions after Levin grew momentarily frustrated with their hesitation to respond to his direct questions on the issues.
The secretary said he believes the minimum number of Raptors needed to meet future requirements is probably the previous estimate of 277. Moseley stated that he personally does not believe that the official Defense Department plan for just 183 of the Lockheed Martin-made fighters is enough.
"No, sir," the chief of staff told Levin when the senator asked him.
Both men also allowed that a second JSF engine could be a smart move by Washington, citing engine experiences with F-16s. Wynne acknowledged that the "business case" for a second JSF engine undermines such an effort on that specific cost analysis, but the question for defense leaders and lawmakers might be more one of confidence in meeting capabilities rather than strict budget concerns.
"Affordability can't always be the rule," the secretary said.
Indeed, highlighting redundancy and reliability above cost concerns played a major role in Wynne's explanations for more Raptors, in light of planned JSFs, as well as another JSF engine. He recalled being able to rely on F-16s when F-15s had to be grounded after longeron failures were identified last fall following an F-15 crash.
Moseley said the Air Force tries to craft its official budget request following affordability guidance provided from above, but it also stands ready to answer where further dollars would be best spent. "We owe you what we believe it takes," the chief also said.
Regarding an alternative JSF power plant, Moseley suggested that the Air Force's concerns revolve around protecting the JSF program to roll it out to the other armed services and allies in time, rather than necessarily scuttling efforts toward a second engine.
Both men maintained that the service should get an additional $20 billion annually over proposed budgets in order to truly meet all the demands placed on it, including matching growing needs from burgeoning land services, which the air service leaders said they support.

</H3>http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...ders Prefer More F-22 Raptors&channel=defense

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123089011

Gen. Bruce Carlson shortly after speaking with Air War College and Squadron Officer School students Feb. 27 about the importance of recapitalizing the Air Force's aging fleet to maintain air dominance.

"Soon we could be flying against aircraft and air defense systems that our older aircraft were not intended to fly against," General Carlson said. "And if we don't have the freedom to operate in hostile territories, we risk fighting the next conflict on our home territory."

If the AF doesn't think they can keep the bad guys away from door, then we'll just have to leave it up to the Navy, Marines and Army.

 

[stonewall]

And here I thought we were all one team.