Valuable ratings VS. Just more money

[PilotOnTheRise]

When it comes to getting a pilot slot through Active Duty, or Guard/Reserve, having previous flight time, and some ratings under your belt are a good thing. It only helps your chances.

My question is;
What ratings are good to get, and help your chances, vs. what ratings are simply burning more holes in your pocket, and don't make a difference.

For example, is having a private, and instrument sufficient, along with a good amount of flight time, or if one can, does continuing on, and getting a commercial, etc., etc., help even more.

I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but if you get a pilot slot, obviously you are getting trained, and will receive all of these ratings through the military, free. Is it worth spending $20K+ for all of these ratings past the instrument civilian?

 

[slacker]

Let the military pay for your ratings. In the Air Force, you will receive a PCSM score. This is some magic number that takes into account your AFOQT, BAT test and Flight hours. On your score sheet, it shows how much your PCSM score would increase as your flight time increases. I think it maxes out at 200 hours. Over that, and your flight time is all fodder for the interview and doesn't help your score anymore. Good Luck.

 

[Gunfighter]

I can't speak for the active duty boards, but I do know a little about the ANG. The pilot training program is built for a candidate with little to no expereince, with a strong aptitude and an ability to learn fast. With that in mind, they can and sometimes do hire people with little civilian experience if they show strong aptitude and academic ability.

Some selection boards place a higher value on civilian experience, generally because they had an inexperienced candidate wash out of UPT. Some boards place a higher value on being in the unit or from the local area, because they are concerned about retention.

Keep in mind they are hiring an officer who is trained as a pilot in the unit's assigned aircraft. You may be the best pilot in the world, but you also must convince the board you will be an asset to them as a commissioned officer.

 

[TankerDriver]

In my Phase II UPT class, we had 4 studs in the class with almost 4,000 combined hours of flight time. 3 of us had ratings up to CFII's, 2 of which had 1,000+ hours each, the other CFII had about 500, and the 4th guy had his PPL, instrument, commercial and had some hours teaching gliders at the Zoo. We were 1, 2, 3, and 4 ranked in the class and were all very close in mass score. Coincidence? I don't think so.

I would say a PPL and instrument rating are worth it, however, I think it's more about the quality of flight time in your logbook, ie: realworld instrument experience. I had been flying since I was 15 years old when I went to UPT. 11 years of flying. Granted, 1,300 hours of flying mostly small GA aircraft is not exactly like flying a 250 knot T-37 or T-6, but as a CFII, I felt I had stronger decision making skills and airmanship than the average stud coming in with just the Air Force funded IFT program. I was somewhat used to making quick decisions from flying 6-7 hours a day in one of the busiest training airspaces in the country. When you've been flying for a while, you can free up a few more brain cells for thinking about other things besides keeping the aircraft right side up.

I would agree that the program is designed for someone with little to no experience and going in with a lot of flight time can be frustrating because the IP's really haven't been trained to train someone like this. I frequently felt I was dancing that line between coming across confident and coming across a little too cocky. There were many things an IP would teach me in briefings that I knew already from flying in the civilian world and the key is to shut your mouth and nod, "Yes sir". The last thing you want is to come across thinking you know it all because the fact is, even with 10,000 hours of civilian time, military flying is different and you will learn lots of new things. Some of these things will make you that much better and some of them will make you ask, "Why the heck does the AF do it like this?" when the civilian way brings you to the same outcome. I don't know why. It's just different. If you've gotten far enough to get a few civilian ratings, you've proven to be trainable and with hardwork and determination, your civilian ratings will put you that much farther ahead of the rest.

Keep in mind, as you go into Phase III, things will start to level off. It will get more challenging, especially when you're flying an aircraft that's now weighs 15,000lb and goes 500kt+ (a T-1 for example). I had one up near 600 knots groundspeed one time. Things happen quick! You're starting your descent 100+ miles out now because you're up in the flight levels flying with the big boys now. You're using your weather radar and your anti-icing equipment.

In the end, I don't regret spending the money for civilian training, however, I didn't do it to help me get through UPT. I had plans to fly commercially and it was my step towards that career path.

 

[Boxav8r]

Pvt was all I had

All I had was a private ticket when I got to flight school. I finished first in my primary class. Some more instrument time would have been nice, but wasn't necessary.

All it did for me was let me settle in and pay attention to flying -vs- sightseeing in the first several hops. After that, the military teaches things SO differently than civilians that you're only likely to learn bad habits you'll have to break.

So - short answer is: If you've got your private, you'll be fine. You've shown all the aptitude it takes. Take the $20K you're thinking of putting into ratings and make a down-payment that red Porsche so you can be the babe-magnet when you report in to your first gun squadron.

To paraphrase Yogi Berra: It's 90% mental, the other half is physical.

 

[malterf15]

You don't need anything to make it through UPT. It's just the basics and they handfeed it to you.
To get hired depends on your timing more than your ratings. If they need dudes, they'll hire anybody. If they don't, the bar gets raised. Call the flying board office at AFPC at Randolph AFB in San Antonio and ask them what the current climate is. Having a PPL is a minimum nut cutter if they're tightening the pipeline. Everything else is a waste of time (unless you want to be the #1 tanker pilot in your class).

 

[Vingus]

In my Phase II UPT class, we had 4 studs in the class with almost 4,000 combined hours of flight time. 3 of us had ratings up to CFII's, 2 of which had 1,000+ hours each, the other CFII had about 500, and the 4th guy had his PPL, instrument, commercial and had some hours teaching gliders at the Zoo. We were 1, 2, 3, and 4 ranked in the class and were all very close in mass score. Coincidence? I don't think so.

I would say a PPL and instrument rating are worth it, however, I think it's more about the quality of flight time in your logbook, ie: realworld instrument experience. I had been flying since I was 15 years old when I went to UPT. 11 years of flying. Granted, 1,300 hours of flying mostly small GA aircraft is not exactly like flying a 250 knot T-37 or T-6, but as a CFII, I felt I had stronger decision making skills and airmanship than the average stud coming in with just the Air Force funded IFT program. I was somewhat used to making quick decisions from flying 6-7 hours a day in one of the busiest training airspaces in the country. When you've been flying for a while, you can free up a few more brain cells for thinking about other things besides keeping the aircraft right side up.

I would agree that the program is designed for someone with little to no experience and going in with a lot of flight time can be frustrating because the IP's really haven't been trained to train someone like this. I frequently felt I was dancing that line between coming across confident and coming across a little too cocky. There were many things an IP would teach me in briefings that I knew already from flying in the civilian world and the key is to shut your mouth and nod, "Yes sir". The last thing you want is to come across thinking you know it all because the fact is, even with 10,000 hours of civilian time, military flying is different and you will learn lots of new things. Some of these things will make you that much better and some of them will make you ask, "Why the heck does the AF do it like this?" when the civilian way brings you to the same outcome. I don't know why. It's just different. If you've gotten far enough to get a few civilian ratings, you've proven to be trainable and with hardwork and determination, your civilian ratings will put you that much farther ahead of the rest.

Keep in mind, as you go into Phase III, things will start to level off. It will get more challenging, especially when you're flying an aircraft that's now weighs 15,000lb and goes 500kt+ (a T-1 for example). I had one up near 600 knots groundspeed one time. Things happen quick! You're starting your descent 100+ miles out now because you're up in the flight levels flying with the big boys now. You're using your weather radar and your anti-icing equipment.

In the end, I don't regret spending the money for civilian training, however, I didn't do it to help me get through UPT. I had plans to fly commercially and it was my step towards that career path.

OK dude, now I know that this is the pot calling the kettle black, but if you were such a hot #hi# CFII, why did you end up getting tankers out of UPT.

Civilian experience has very little to do with how well you will do at UPT and you are a prime example of that.

I got tankers out of UPT as well. I had no real prior flight experience. Had buddies get F-16s that had no prior experience. It just depends if you have the aptitude to fly military jets.

I don't want to be rude (Simon Cowell) but give us a break!

 

[Pirate]

I put my money on him being a reservist. Maybe that's why his little CIV/MIl thing says both.
Just a guess.

 

[CobraKai]

In my Phase II UPT class, we had 4 studs in the class with almost 4,000 combined hours of flight time. 3 of us had ratings up to CFII's, 2 of which had 1,000+ hours each, the other CFII had about 500, and the 4th guy had his PPL, instrument, commercial and had some hours teaching gliders at the Zoo. We were 1, 2, 3, and 4 ranked in the class and were all very close in mass score. Coincidence? I don't think so.

While true in most cases I have seen more than a few CFII/1000+ hour pilots struggle to make it through UPT. In my own class one washed out (couldn't comprehend the whole inverted nose high recovery) and another one made it, but managed to piss off almost every IP and Student they worked with ("in the civilian world we don't do that")

... it's more about the quality of flight time in your logbook,

...and about your attitude. Military and civilian flying is different. The CFIIs that struggled were the ones that "earned" thier ratings quickly in mostly VFR level point to point flying, just to build time, or the ones that were too set in thier civilian flying is allways right ways.

Come in with a positive attitude, and the ability to accept instruction (as in if it is suggested to due something one way maybe you should try it) and you will do well.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I have my private, and am planning on getting my instrument, and stop there. I think with those two ratings, I can build some valuable flight time/ experience. I will be applying for a pilot slot with a Guard unit I recently enlisted in. Still some time away before I do that, but just trying to find out what I should do along the way.

I certainly don't want to burn money on ratings that offer no significant boost in my chances of getting a slot.