Valuable ratings VS. Just more money

[TankerDriver]

OK dude, now I know that this is the pot calling the kettle black, but if you were such a hot #hi# CFII, why did you end up getting tankers out of UPT.

Civilian experience has very little to do with how well you will do at UPT and you are a prime example of that.

I got tankers out of UPT as well. I had no real prior flight experience. Had buddies get F-16s that had no prior experience. It just depends if you have the aptitude to fly military jets.

I don't want to be rude (Simon Cowell) but give us a break!

LOL... Tell me, when you're flying your A-320 around, do you ask the guy who flies DC-9's, "If you were such a hot regional pilot, why did you end up flying DC-9's?". I must say you must have a large set of brass ones and an ego to go along with them to insinuate someone was a $hitbag in UPT because they fly tankers. If you must know, I was on a height waiver through UPT that T-1 tracked me from the get go. I knew from Day 1 that I wasn't going to be able to get a T-38 even if I wanted one, which I honestly didn't. T-1's would have been my first choice whether I was #1 or #500 and I was actually #3 if you must know. I know it's hard to grasp the concept of anyone not wanting to be a fighter pilot. I don't know. There was something about studying tactics in a vault for 6 hours to go out and fly for 1.2 only to come back and debrief for another 6 hours that turned me off. Other than being able to takeoff and climb straight up while accelerating, I had no desire to be a fighter pilot. And guess what, most of the fighter pilots flying over Iraq right now are flying circles in the sky just like we are. There's not much bomb dropping going on anymore.

Other than C-21's, tankers were my second choice out of T-1's. Why? I didn't want to be gone every other week flying strat airlift. Sorry, I was lifestyle over airframe. I know when I'm going to deploy and when I'm going to be home. I'm not set to deploy for the next 5 months. But I know, just like the fighter track stereotype, if you don't get C-17's out of T-1's, you're a $hitbag too, right?

Pirate, I hope it wasn't too much $$$ because I'm active duty.

Now that this thread has turned into a pissing match, back to our regularly scheduled program! I knew quite a few guys with lots of civilian flight time in UPT. I never heard of any of them washing out. Not to say it's not possible, but all the ones I knew did very well. Most of them were out of OTS, Guard, Reserves who had been in the "real world" for quite some time vs ROTC or the AFA and because they had been serious about flying for quite some time vs the Zoo guy who breezed through an "I'll just get by" major with a 2.5 GPA and got his flight slot because he wanted to be that cool fighter pilot with the Z06 Corvette. Oops, that's me stereotyping now.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

On a height waiver? For being too short, or tall? I'm 6'5". Will I fit into the T-38's? haha.

 

[dtfl]

My $.02

First of all, Slacker is dangerous.......

Second. We had a CFII with 3000 hours that was a corp pilot for Catepillar and he was an OUTSTANDING pilot...but...other classes had CFIs that washed out. Attitude I guess.

I had a buddy in UPT that got by in college with a 2.5 or so. In a Frat, drank a lot and never studied. Got to UPT and was a very good pilot. Got 12 or so in tweets because our Flt CC was a tea-totaller. Was ranked in the top 3 in 38s. In my drop we had banked fighters and "stacked" fighters meaning - you flew a 38 once a week and waited...and waited...he got an MC130E. He took it because it was AFSOC and he, myself and some buds could hang at HRT.
AFter becoming an OGV guy he got the crossflow approved. He is at Monterey now at Naval Postgrad school. His last assignment? IP at Luke in Vipers. So...even book smart does not equal fly smart

 

[TankerDriver]

Too short. 6'5" huh? I think that's actually close. I don't remember what the upper height limit is. I never really had to worry about it.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

The upper limit is 6'5". The unit I am in flies F-15's. Someone told me one of the pilots is 6'6", so I assume I should be fine, since it is Guard. I fit into C-150s fine, so hopefully I fit into a T-38.

For active duty, do they determine airplane based off of height at all? Does it truly have any factor, as long as you are within limits?

 

[Gorilla]

Remember Chad Hennings, USAFA grad and Dallas Cowboys Defensive line guy? One huge dude. Somehow he managed to get into T-38's and went on to the A-10. I'm not sure how he did it legally.

I'm 6'3", still legal, but when I did my AT-38 IP stint at HMN, my helmet really scraped the back seat canopy, and the whole fit was pretty marginal for safe ejection.

 

[TankerDriver]

The upper limit is 6'5". The unit I am in flies F-15's. Someone told me one of the pilots is 6'6", so I assume I should be fine, since it is Guard. I fit into C-150s fine, so hopefully I fit into a T-38.

For active duty, do they determine airplane based off of height at all? Does it truly have any factor, as long as you are within limits?

Anything is possible. I'm sure the chances of getting a waiver and such is much easier being in the guard because there's less of a chain of leadership to have to deal with and I'm sure units are more prone to fighting for their people compared to Joe Blow active duty.

There is a range, 64-77 inches standing and I think the sitting height range is 32-44". If you fall outside any of those ranges, you're pretty much disqualified from UPT and have to go through a painful waiver process, which used to go up to the Chief of Staff, but I believe the AETC commander can now sign height waivers. When you fall outside any of those limits, they take additional measurements (arm reach, etc...) and evaluate them to come up with what planes you can fly (if you press for the waiver). The waiver process when I went through was a bunch of butt pain, just like anything else in the military. The people down at Brooks were pretty much worthless and wouldn't lift a finger, although they did try to make me reclassify and give me a new job (that was nice of them ). It wound up taking some "political persuation" and 6 months to get a waiver. Supposedly the T-38's archaic ejection seat is very violent on the body, especially if you're outside the height and weight parameters and that's why they T-1 track people outside these parameters.

 

[Pirate]

Oh well, I thought it was a good guess.

Any way I hate the if you didn't fly 38s you must suck attitude.

I could actual care less if you fly an F-whatever or a B-whocares.
The way I see it is a guy has one of two things going for him, either he has a big johnson or he can fight; everyone else should keep their mouth shut.

 

[TankerDriver]

Oh well, I thought it was a good guess.

Any way I hate the if you didn't fly 38s you must suck attitude.

I could actual care less if you fly an F-whatever or a B-whocares.
The way I see it is a guy has one of two things going for him, either he has a big johnson or he can fight; everyone else should keep their mouth shut.

:laugh: Well, I will agree that for the most part, studs that get tankers had them at the end of their list and got them because they were on the poop end of the stick in class ranking. Well, at least the KC-135 guys. KC-10 slots are rare and are considered "Gucci" and usually most people put them up at the top of the list , so the top studs get them. I wanted the 135 over the 10 because we actually fly our aircraft by hand a lot more than the 10 guys and I was lucky enough to have a few 135 IP's in my T-1 flight to tell me this. We do transition, ie: overhead patterns, tactical arrivals and departures, VFR closed patterns, etc... I don't believe the 10 guys do that stuff. UPT is a rumor mill. UPT studs are near sighted and only think about a great first assignment. People love labeling different flying communities and they pick airframes by popularity rather than looking down the road a few years and what their options will be. C-17s are the newest technology we have in AMC, they've got a lot of pretty computer screens and a control stick like a fighter, but after a few years, just like anything else, you get bored with it and the quality of life catches up to you. Besides, 135 guard units are a dime a dozen which opens up many options during these times of "Force Shaping" and hopefully that's where I'll be by the summer. :beer:

We had a guy in my primary class who was ranked 7th out of 13 and he still got fighters because he was lucky enough to have 3 guys ahead of him who wanted T-1's and T-44's. The best of the best, right... sometimes it comes down to who wants what and how lucky you are.

 

[Mooseflyer]

OK dude, now I know that this is the pot calling the kettle black, but if you were such a hot #hi# CFII, why did you end up getting tankers out of UPT.

What a c0cksucker...... I rarely post on Flightinfo, but it always p!sses me off when some moron thinks that if you didn't take a fighter out of UPT you're a sh!tbag. How about bases of assignment? Travel opportunity? Community mentality? Heavy jet time? No deployments? FWIW, the #1 guy in my class took a -135 (with his guard unit), and the F-16 went about halfway down. While I was happy for the opportunity to fly the -38 (in the days before SUPT came to CBM), I couldn't imagine flying around the flagpole for the rest of my days.

Edit:
No offense Vingus, I just noticed YOU were/are a -135 guy. Regardless, the train of thought has always gotten under my skin......