USAPA wants $'s for marksman........

[Captzaahlie]

From: USAPA Communications <[email protected]>

Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 3:10 PM

USAirlinePilots.org
US Airline Pilots Association

Representing the pilots of US Airways​

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A Call For Benevolence

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One of our own, Capt. James Langenhahn, has had his 24-years of service to US Airways terminated, pending appeal to an arbitrator. USAPA is confident of Jim’s vindication by the neutral arbitrator, but that will not happen until at least late November; more likely the end of 2008.​

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Capt. Langenhahn, as many will recall, suffered international notoriety, when his pistol discharged, through its holster, while Jim attempted to replace the mandated trigger lock.​

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Regardless of one’s current opinion of the case, the facts and circumstances have not yet had a full and fair hearing. When that occurs, Jim will be returned, to continue his career as a professional airman and a fine employee.​

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Unfortunately, in the meanwhile, Jim Langenhahn is suffering financially. Family circumstances and certain extraordinary, one-time expenses have all come at just the wrong time… many of us have “been there.” To pay bills he has been forced to liquidate his retirement accounts. Naturally, employment as a pilot is tough to find now, doubly so when one has been terminated (temporarily), in so public a forum.​

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Your union, USAPA, is calling upon each of Capt. James Langenhahn’s fellow US Airways Union Pilots to reach into our relative plenty and give Jim just a little bit, to see him through until Christmas when, we are confident, he will be back in the cockpit again.​

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Why ask you for money this way, rather than an assessment? Your USAPA Constitution mandates a Pilot Referendum on all such matters. The cost of administration would equal what we hope to raise for Capt. Langenhahn. Also, the need for your help is NOW; an assessment vote takes weeks to complete.​

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Please search your hearts and then reach into your wallets for a fellow aviator who truly could use a hand. Next time you go to the ATM for layover money, take a couple of the “twenties” that thing burps out, (larger amounts and checks are welcome too!) and send them to:​

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Capt. James Langenhahn Fund​

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C/o Capt. Elwood Menear​

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PO Box 62​

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Hummelstown, PA 17036-0062​

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Checks should be made payable to:
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USAPA
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Note: these contributions are not tax deductable​

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[FONT=Arial,sans-serif]USAPA Communications | US Airline Pilots Association
877-678-7272 | USAirlinePilots.org
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[Old School 737]

wonder if they would do this for a west side guy????

 

[PHXFLYR]

Fat chance would be my guess. But then a "west side guy" wouldn't be dumb enough to be putting his gun away descending through 8000 feet just so he can make his jumpseat flight home,either.


PHXFLYR

 

[m80drvr]

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One of our own, Capt. James Langenhahn, has had his 24-years of service to US Airways terminated, pending appeal to an arbitrator. USAPA is confident of Jim’s vindication by the neutral arbitrator, but that will not happen until at least late November; more likely the end of 2008. [/FONT]​

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Classic, USAPA says they are appealing to an arbitrator. What will USAPA do when the company says that they aren't going to follow the arbitrators findings "becaues it isn't fair".

The fact that these guys continue to to use the terms arbitration, arbitrator and binding arbitration are just laughable. They make a mockery of the arbitration system in this country yet continue to rely on it to pass their agenda.

Glass house anyone.

 

[Caveman]

When did we become so jaded and bitter that we can't set aside the BS for one moment and help out a fellow human being? How about just this one time we forgive and forget and help a guy out? Does it really matter that he's East or West? Rise above. Turn the other cheek. Whatever, but let it go or else it's gonna kill your own spirit. You can still fight for seniority and scope and fences, but you don't have to lose your humanity in the process.

 

[Networ-King]

When did we become so jaded and bitter that we can't set aside the BS for one moment and help out a fellow human being? How about just this one time we forgive and forget and help a guy out? Does it really matter that he's East or West? Rise above. Turn the other cheek. Whatever, but let it go or else it's gonna kill your own spirit. You can still fight for seniority and scope and fences, but you don't have to lose your humanity in the process.

As "humane" as you think as you are being by forgiving and forgetting the idiot that made up his own procedures in the cockpit and put the whole FFDO program in jeopardy and to give money to this boob, why not have everybody reach into their pockets and pay for the guys that are going to be on the street in a couple of months!!!!!! OUT OF SENIORITY ORDER? forgive and forget right? Give me a break......these guys that are going to be on the street soon need to save every penny for themselves instead of giving it to dumba$$ whose been "CAPTAIN" most of his career at USA. Whats the matter? Did he live outside his means and not have savings for emergencies? Boo freaking hoo.....

As a FFDO and a friend of pilots on the west side, that are getting screwed by the east guys, I say let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Dr. Rumack]

OK, I'll throw it out there...
If we were still ALPA, in spite of all of our differences I would pony up to help the guy and his family while they get this sorted out. I do think it is an offense worthy of losing your job but agree that is not for me to decide. Since they took ALPA from us, they can figure out how to help him out until the issue is put to bed. Kind of ironic that they are saying he deserves his day in court and that I am not going to help out since they made a mockery of the court system.

 

[A350]

PHXFLYR:

You are right....the West seniority list is full of Mensa members! Especially the two that pushed off the gate drunk as skunks.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw bricks.....

Every airline has a pilot that has put their peers in a bad light and every pilot has had a day in their career they would rather forget. If you haven't, you will!

If you don't want to support this pilot, then don't. It is a personal choice.

Enuff said.

A350

 

[m80drvr]

As "humane" as you think as you are being by forgiving and forgetting the idiot that made up his own procedures in the cockpit and put the whole FFDO program in jeopardy and to give money to this boob, why not have everybody reach into their pockets and pay for the guys that are going to be on the street in a couple of months!!!!!! OUT OF SENIORITY ORDER? forgive and forget right? Give me a break......these guys that are going to be on the street soon need to save every penny for themselves instead of giving it to dumba$$ whose been "CAPTAIN" most of his career at USA. Whats the matter? Did he live outside his means and not have savings for emergencies? Boo freaking hoo.....

As a FFDO and a friend of pilots on the west side, that are getting screwed by the east guys, I say let the chips fall where they may.

YUP!




In the words in Donald Trump,

"YOU'RE FIRED!"

 

[m80drvr]

When did we become so jaded and bitter that we can't set aside the BS for one moment and help out a fellow human being? How about just this one time we forgive and forget and help a guy out? Does it really matter that he's East or West? Rise above. Turn the other cheek. Whatever, but let it go or else it's gonna kill your own spirit. You can still fight for seniority and scope and fences, but you don't have to lose your humanity in the process.

I became bitter and jaded when a group of unemployed pilots decided it was ok to destroy my career to further their own.

 

[Dr. Rumack]

A350

I am on the West list and not Mensa. That is why I would have preferred to have a union there to defend me if I had one of those days you are talking about. I do not. Neither does he. If you want to speak cliche might I suggest 'you reap what you sow'.

 

[m80drvr]

A350

I am on the West list and not Mensa. That is why I would have preferred to have a union there to defend me if I had one of those days you are talking about. I do not. Neither does he. If you want to speak cliche might I suggest 'you reap what you sow'.

Or:

You got your just desserts

What's good for the goose is good for the gander

What goes around comes around

Or my favorite

Charma......It's a bitch.

 

[Caveman]

Unless you were there or are a party to the investigation you don't know what exactly happened. I'm as in the dark as the rest of you. I know this much though. CA Langenhahn is not personally responsible for Nicalau's decision. CA Langenhan is not personally resonsible for USAPA. CA Langenhan isn't personally responsible for all the hate and discontent between East & West. Last but not least he still hasn't had his day in court and the process isn't finished.

I have no idea whether or not he's an idiot or just made a bad decision. Is he guilty of unsafe behavior or a victim of flawed procedure? Or both? I'm not asking anybody to donate. I am asking some of you to consider that maybe you've let your hatred of East vs West go too far. The whole USAPA/Nicalau/East vs West deal is a train wreck. That doesn't justfy dumping all your anger upon one relatively obscure individual. I can understand someone deciding not to donate because they had concerns about his actions relative to FFDO procedure. That is a rational decision. Not contributing solely because he's an Eastie is what I find disturbing. If he needed a kidney would you refuse just because he's an Eastie? That's an extreme analogy, but the principle is the same.

 

[Networ-King]

Or:

You got your just desserts

What's good for the goose is good for the gander

What goes around comes around

Or my favorite

Charma......It's a bitch.

I don't care who you are..... that's some funny shizzle right there.:beer:


You guys ever wonder what color a smurf would turn if you choked it? :laugh:

 

[Dr. Rumack]

Caveman,

Either you did not read my posts or you are referring to someone else. I did not mention the Nic award and you would be hard pressed to find any vitriole in my posts. I hate the enemies of our country and people who wich to harm others. Hate is a very strong word. I also advocated the guy getting his day in court. I am, under the circumstances (on the furlough list) pretty damned reasonable. That being said, USAPA threw out the safety net for issues just like this. They reap what they sow. I think I can logically and reasonably, though with great bias, point out this fact as one of the many issues that the east has failed to share the same logic and reason.

 

[waveflyer]

it's a good point that if USAPA had a fund to help the upcoming furloughs- guys would be a lot more willing to help a captain who should be better off financially than this.

 

[vetrider]

When did we become so jaded and bitter that we can't set aside the BS for one moment and help out a fellow human being? How about just this one time we forgive and forget and help a guy out? Does it really matter that he's East or West? Rise above. Turn the other cheek. Whatever, but let it go or else it's gonna kill your own spirit. You can still fight for seniority and scope and fences, but you don't have to lose your humanity in the process.

Ordinarliy I'd agree with what you just wrote. However, when this benevolet association goes after 18 of my brothers for seven figures of damages in a trumped up bs lawsuit, it tends to make me a little bitter and jaded.

And then when the judge throws out said lawsuit, they appeal it, stating that they are interested in the damages available to them under the rico statutes. Give me a break.

These cretins have a lot of gall sending that plea to west pilots. Perhaps if they hadn't wasted all those hundreds of thousands on lawsuits and an ad harming the mouth that feeds them they'd have enough to slip old Jim some money.

 

[vetrider]

So if usapa succeeds in bankrupting 18 individual west pilots for high crimes such as web board posts will they send out and appeal for benevolence on their behalf?

 

[Networ-King]

Unless you were there or are a party to the investigation you don't know what exactly happened. I'm as in the dark as the rest of you. I know this much though. CA Langenhahn is not personally responsible for Nicalau's decision. CA Langenhan is not personally resonsible for USAPA. CA Langenhan isn't personally responsible for all the hate and discontent between East & West. Last but not least he still hasn't had his day in court and the process isn't finished.

I have no idea whether or not he's an idiot He is. or just made a bad decision He did. Is he guilty of unsafe behavior He is or a victim of flawed procedure I didn't shoot a hole in the side of my airplane last time I carried my weapon with said "flawed procedures"? Or both No... its his fault? I'm not asking anybody to donate. I am asking some of you to consider that maybe you've let your hatred of East vs West go too far. The whole USAPA/Nicalau/East vs West deal is a train wreck. That doesn't justfy dumping all your anger upon one relatively obscure individual. I can understand someone deciding not to donate because they had concerns about his actions relative to FFDO procedure. That is a rational decision. Not contributing solely because he's an Eastie is what I find disturbing. If he needed a kidney would you refuse just because he's an Eastie? That's an extreme analogy, but the principle is the same.

Its guys like this that waste the union funds because of their stupidity or their actions. Been at enough airlines to see enough of these kind of pilots do the dumbest sh!t and get caught and expect the union to save their a$$e$. I fully stand shoulder to shoulder with my union brothers and sisters, but there is nothing that can be written in any contract that can support stupidity and or lack of common sense.

Oh and by the way.... while doing the recurrent FFDO course they briefed us on exactly what this guy did. He's lucky hes not in jail for endangering the lives of his passengers and or his crew. If you ask me he got off easy......

 

[Caveman]

I agree that USAPA has a lot of nerve forwarding this to the Westies. Either you decide to donate or you don't. Just don't let anger and resentment make the choice for you. It's either a worthy cause or it isn't.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Caveman.

It isn't. But if you feel that strongly about it, feel free to donate. As a matter of fact,here's the address you can send your check to:

"Captain" James Langenhahn Fund
C/O "Captain" Elwood Menear (a piece of work in his own right)
PO Box 62
Hummelston PA 17036
Checks payable to "Usapa"
..... and hope that it gets to it's intended recipient.
Go get 'em Marine !!


PHXFLYR

 

[waveflyer]

Now that we've figured out that anyone can donate or not....

HOW ABOUT THAT FURLOUGH FUND?

SEEMS LIKE A MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE TO BE TALKING ABOUT.

 

[Dan Roman]

Kind of pathetic regardless of how you feel about this guy. Fact is, if they were still in ALPA he would have all the resources he needs at his disposal. Sad that as a USAPA pilot they have to resort to panhandling.

 

[Poahi]

While I sympathize with his situation, I have to ask, if they only need to get him through the end of the year and he's worked for Airways 24 years, where did all the money go?

 

[MK82Man]

Caveman --

I can’t speak for every dude out West, but I’m certain almost all of us are empathetic to Capt Jim Langenhahn’s plight. But it stops there. We feel for the guy, but most of us strongly believe that he jeopardized the reputation of our airline by his conduct. So we are sympathetic to his plight and feel for him, but that is about it. At some point personal responsibility sets in.

Now USAPA asks us to help him. What is the USAPA doing to help the 175 mainline AWA guys being furloughed this Fall? – ZERO. What are they doing to help the 125 “new-hire” furloughs out East? – ZERO. So you see, it re-enforces the pattern of behavior that USAPA exists only to help the one’s they want to help. Old time East pilots. None of the East Coast furloughee recalls (those who were on the street in May 05 when the merger was announced) will be furloughed this Fall. USAPA is ok with that because it keeps old legacy US Air pilots employed while they attrit the legacy AWA pilots. If USAPA hadn’t run the USA Today Ad claiming the company was abusing Captain’s Authority (so laughable) they would have had $100K to help out Capt Jim. And now USAPA asks me to cough up money to help Capt Jim when I’m being furloughed this Fall, while some East Coast guy who didn’t have a job at the company when the merger was announced, gets to keep his job – YGTBSM.

Next week, USAPA will begin Section 29 proceedings against over 1000 AWA pilots who have refused to pay dues to USAPA. There hasn’t been a single road show by USAPA to either West domicile since they were elected the CBA in April … and they want our help? I’ll tell you what they want; they want our money so they can further disenfranchise us. Capt Langenhahn is caught in the middle. As long as USAPA exists and the East won’t live up to the binding arbitration they agreed to, the house will be divided and USAPA can best decide where to allocate the scarce resources. Fundraisers for a guy who broke the rules and endangered the safety of his passengers and the reputation of the airline will be poorly received out West. The chickens are indeed coming home to roost and it is sad that so many East pilots were blinded by rage against ALPA and voted for USAPA. Unfortunately there will be many more pilots and families damaged as the months drag on. Good luck to Capt Jim. The sooner the East pilots wake up to the nightmare USAPA has created for all of us, the better. Me and 299 other soon to be furloughed dudes would to get back to work in 2009.

 

[Colonel Savage]

"Next week, USAPA will begin Section 29 proceedings against over 1000 AWA pilots who have refused to pay dues to USAPA."

Why only 1000? Did 800 pay their dues?

 

[eatme]

Politics aside, anyone proficient with a gun care to chime in on this. From what I read about this incident, it sounds like negligence, pure and simple. If this is FFDO SOP, you can have it.

 

[Herkdrv]

Its guys like this that waste the union funds because of their stupidity or their actions. Been at enough airlines to see enough of these kind of pilots do the dumbest sh!t and get caught and expect the union to save their a$$e$. I fully stand shoulder to shoulder with my union brothers and sisters, but there is nothing that can be written in any contract that can support stupidity and or lack of common sense.

Oh and by the way.... while doing the recurrent FFDO course they briefed us on exactly what this guy did. He's lucky hes not in jail for endangering the lives of his passengers and or his crew. If you ask me he got off easy......

Can you provide further details?

 

[PCL_128]

CA Langenhan is not personally resonsible for USAPA.

Actually, if he voted for uSAPa, as 90% of the Eastholes did, then he's most certainly responsible for his own lack of adequate representation at the moment. I hope he sees the irony.

 

[m80drvr]

Politics aside, anyone proficient with a gun care to chime in on this. From what I read about this incident, it sounds like negligence, pure and simple. If this is FFDO SOP, you can have it.

Yup

I shoot more than most. I shoot some local competitions in my area. Nd's (negligent discharges) occur....alot. (not in competitions though. They are very structured and safe)Do some searching on the web. Hell, Utube has videos of them. BUT........ to blame any ND on the firearm or the holster is just plain stupid. The FFDO program has SOPs JUST LIKE THE AIRLINES. If you follow the SOPs you will NOT shoot an innocent airbus. If you make up your own procedures than you will, at some point, shoot an airplane or a person.

We have all heard of the term "get home-itus", If you rush, and are careless of a firearm you will have an ND. Hopefully you don't shoot a person.

Again I shoot alot. I'm not an expert but I am experienced in the shooting sports, and gun handling.


Everyone screws up in life, it's humn nature, but to screw up with a firearm can be deadly.

MD