Usapa lost!

[Taco Rocket]

So is that how they're referring to the east pilots nowadays ?

PHXFLYR

I thought Y(east) Infection was funny!

 

[B-atch]

CB

Lurkers:
The post that Marty put out is decidedly one that reeks of desperation. He now has his Captain seat and is making a whole $30 more an hour. Every year that USAPA delays a new contract (for we now now that the Nicolau Award can never be cast aside), it is costing you over (at least) $45,000.00, time off and contract improvements.

Are you tired of the current USAPA circus? Are you ready for a change? Do you want a better contract and wage improvements this coming year?

YES! YES! YES!.....

1. Please be informed: Go to www.cactuspilot.com and read the legal documents and other documents.
2. Please be sure that you are a member in good standing, so that you can participate and vote.
3. Join us (east & west) at: http://cp.cactuspilots.us This is a forum that we can discuss, share information together, and have spirited debates. There are only a handful of east guys there, and you are all welcome.
4. Please join us if you tired of the current USAPA circus: www.reformusapa.com. There are three petitions there. EVEN if you completely disagree with the Nicolau, the other two petitions are NO BRAINERS.

CB

...........Who's DESPERATE?? Any good PROPAGANDA machine should have buttons and stickers!!..Don't forget hats!!

 

[Taco Rocket]

CB


...........Who's DESPERATE?? Any good PROPAGANDA machine should have buttons and stickers!!..Don't forget hats!!

Lanyards!

Bag tags!

Oops can't go there now can we...

 

[becket]

You are so out of touch with reality Dave. Let me guess. You believe in Adam and Eve as well. Anyway, I hope your house did not foreclose in PHX. I know it is creating a lot of heart burn for many Westies. Good luck, I realize you overextended yourselves with believing you would have upgraded.

95% of East pilots will vote no if the seniority proposal included the Nic. Under Nic we would go back to separate voting like the ALPA proposal called for. No changing how the Nic was intended to be voted on. Otherwise DFR.

Under the DOH with C and R proposal. One vote and a DFR.

By the way, my pay just went up 30 dollars an hour in March. How bout yours.

We remain separate and we could re-brand the West operation to MDA-2. Same airline, Union, callsign, you just can not bid over. Just like your beloved ALPA did. Seemed fair to the MDA pilots.

Maybe if we merge we can show the MDA-2 pilots as furloughed on our list. Just like ALPA did. That seems fair. You would get a staple. Just like the MDA pilots.

M

Poor delusional MCDoodie. Congratulations on getting off the E190 and into the big girl jets. ALPA never intended independent ratification of the SLI. That's why it went to Final and Binding arbitration. You know all of this. I'll make you a bet. The FIRST contract the pilots get to vote on will be ratified including an unqualified Nic. award.

 

[cactusboy53]

CB


...........Who's DESPERATE?? Any good PROPAGANDA machine should have buttons and stickers!!..Don't forget hats!!

Not desperate, just helping to inform the "Lurkers". For every desperate attempt of you kids to evade the Nicolau and stay separate operations, there is at least 5+ non-posters that read your drivel.

These are the people that we are trying to reach. These are the people that are loosing at least $45,000.00 a year in lost wages & time off. There is a potential for change, it simply depends upon the members in good standing and what they TRULY desire.

If we have enough votes to change the CBL's, we can move on. If we don't (as MickyDu claims), then you get separate operations for years to come. Time will tell.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Can you amateur and professional lawyers out there explain points of change of control clauses in plain English?

For example, if Parker sells 20% of AWA assets the bargaining agent -- (obviously) now USAPA -- can determine at its sole discretion if the crews follow the planes?

Or if the majority AWA assets aren't sold in 1 transaction or close within a 12 month period, the company isn't bound by section 1?

Further, if merging with another pilot group not represented by USAPA (paraphrasing ALPA-ALPA language in section 1 to reflect today's reality), the new merged list would go section 3 and 13 of Allegheny/Mohawk?

Is this information correct?

 

[ableone]

By the way, my pay just went up 30 dollars an hour in March. How bout yours.

We remain separate and we could re-brand the West operation to MDA-2.....
M

Last I heard you were a Gulfstream washout. You never worked at USAir.

So explain this "My pay.." and "We remain separate...."


Sounds like you are a liar.

 

[Carl S.]

Taco, step away from the USAPA spin, there is no merger coming soon. USAPA is seeking another wait till moment that keeps your eyes of the prize, a contract other than LOA 93, but that does include the Nic. The DJ will show that final and binding is final and binding, you can not outrun your legal commitment.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Taco, step away from the USAPA spin, there is no merger coming soon. USAPA is seeking another wait till moment that keeps your eyes of the prize, a contract other than LOA 93, but that does include the Nic. The DJ will show that final and binding is final and binding, you can not outrun your legal commitment.

I took the opportunity to read the AWA contract, as suggested by some on this board. Is my understanding of section 1 correct? A simple question.

 

[Ocity]

I took the opportunity to read the AWA contract, as suggested by some on this board. Is my understanding of section 1 correct? A simple question.

I see you took Cleary's bait. So is this the new obsessive distraction? CoC language? How about the IBT? Executive session where you're sure to get Kasher to reverse? The 3% raises are coming for sure now right....just a FEW more months? There's always an appeal to the 9th to look forward to isn't there? SCOTUS? Sure. Maybe the "identity thieves" will get fired...that's be something cool to look forward to right?

Anything and everything except reality...the USAPA way. Cleary is as desperate as Hitler was in his final days. Expect the noise machine to be cranked to Max as your dear leader is dragged back into court in Feb.

Honestly, you East guys cannot possibly be collective idiots. Surly you MUST see that USAPA is an outright failure that has cost EVERYONE close to a billion dollars right? USAPA has failed, spectacularly, at every single task it has undertaken. Every promise has been broken and the blame MIRACULOUSLY, always belongs at the feet of anyone or anything other than USAPA and the East Leadership.

AT LONG LAST EAST PILOTS....HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

 

[MCDU]

As long as east and west stay separate it is a win. Nobody in the East wants anything to do with America West if it includes Nic.

MDA version 2.0 West division. Two pilot groups with the same employer, union, call sign etc. It was done before under ALPA and nobody complained except the MDA version 1.0 pilots.

I do not care how much money is offered. Our seniority is not for sale. You keep your DOH we keep ours. That is fine.

The only ones who seem to have a problem are the ones not cashing in on a windfall. You have a problem remaining separate. I don't.

M

 

[cactusboy53]

Can you amateur and professional lawyers out there explain points of change of control clauses in plain English?

For example, if Parker sells 20% of AWA assets the bargaining agent -- (obviously) now USAPA -- can determine at its sole discretion if the crews follow the planes?

Or if the majority AWA assets aren't sold in 1 transaction or close within a 12 month period, the company isn't bound by section 1?

Further, if merging with another pilot group not represented by USAPA (paraphrasing ALPA-ALPA language in section 1 to reflect today's reality), the new merged list would go section 3 and 13 of Allegheny/Mohawk?

Is this information correct?

Taco;
I know you are seeking answers, BUT Mike Cleary is not the person you should get them from. His latest SHAMEFUL communication is quite simply a grasp at straws.

IF there is any way that Parker/LCC can get out of the CofC clause, I am quite sure they will. The fact that USAPA has firmly placed our collective pilot group in the injunctions "cross hairs", gives us in NO leverage at all.

I don't know what I can say to make your situation any better. USAPA was formed for the sole reason to evade the Nicolau. They foolishly followed SSM&P's advise that it was a "slam dunk".

The legal battles have quite nearly been exhausted and the union doesn't have the spare change to launch more. It is time to move on.

CB

 

[cactusboy53]

As long as east and west stay separate it is a win. Nobody in the East wants anything to do with America West if it includes Nic.

MDA version 2.0 West division. Two pilot groups with the same employer, union, call sign etc. It was done before under ALPA and nobody complained except the MDA version 1.0 pilots.

I do not care how much money is offered. Our seniority is not for sale. You keep your DOH we keep ours. That is fine.

The only ones who seem to have a problem are the ones not cashing in on a windfall. You have a problem remaining separate. I don't.

M

Rage against the machine Marty. USAPA has painted itself into a corner. The legal battles are quite nearly done, and the rats are leaving the USAPA ship as fast as they can swim. Further, the more sensible pilots have figured out the the next contract WILL have an unrestricted Nicolau seniority list.

I'm glad you got your little captain's seat. You may just get to keep it if you are lucky.

See you in the Spring!

 

[Ocity]

As long as east and west stay separate it is a win. Nobody in the East wants anything to do with America West if it includes Nic.

MDA version 2.0 West division. Two pilot groups with the same employer, union, call sign etc. It was done before under ALPA and nobody complained except the MDA version 1.0 pilots.

I do not care how much money is offered. Our seniority is not for sale. You keep your DOH we keep ours. That is fine.

The only ones who seem to have a problem are the ones not cashing in on a windfall. You have a problem remaining separate. I don't.

M

The only problem with your little scheme Marty is that it's patently Illegal. CBA stands for collective BARGAINING agent. They are required, by law, to bargain in good faith adhering to their Duty of Fair Representation. There isn't a single person in this Industry that DOESN'T know exactly why USAPA was formed and that delay is the sole intent of your "union".

It's illegal. It's coming to an end. Get over it.

 

[Bringupthebird]

As long as east and west stay separate it is a win. Nobody in the East wants anything to do with America West if it includes Nic.

MDA version 2.0 West division. Two pilot groups with the same employer, union, call sign etc. It was done before under ALPA and nobody complained except the MDA version 1.0 pilots.

I do not care how much money is offered. Our seniority is not for sale. You keep your DOH we keep ours. That is fine.

The only ones who seem to have a problem are the ones not cashing in on a windfall. You have a problem remaining separate. I don't.

M

What happens if Silver says Nic is negotiable, yet USAPA still is wary of stepping on that land mine and delays further? Parker tearing up the TA and opening west bases (all equipment) in east hubs! Migrating aircraft? You bet!! West A330 positions? Absolutely!!

I'll bet MCDU just got called back to F/O on the 190 from his Lav Truck C/O position. That should be about a $30/hr increase.

Seniority not for sale? HA! HA! You idiots have never sold anything, you GAVE IT AWAY!!

 

[flygirlqt]

Our seniority is not for sale.

But your common sense certainly is.

 

[ableone]

As long as east and west stay separate it is a win. Nobody in the East wants anything to do with America West if it includes Nic.

MDA version 2.0 West division. Two pilot groups with the same employer, union, call sign etc. It was done before under ALPA and nobody complained except the MDA version 1.0 pilots.

I do not care how much money is offered. Our seniority is not for sale. You keep your DOH we keep ours. That is fine.

The only ones who seem to have a problem are the ones not cashing in on a windfall. You have a problem remaining separate. I don't.

M

What are you talking about? You don't work for USAir so you have no seniority to sell.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Taco;
I know you are seeking answers, BUT Mike Cleary is not the person you should get them from. His latest SHAMEFUL communication is quite simply a grasp at straws.

IF there is any way that Parker/LCC can get out of the CofC clause, I am quite sure they will. The fact that USAPA has firmly placed our collective pilot group in the injunctions "cross hairs", gives us in NO leverage at all.

I don't know what I can say to make your situation any better. USAPA was formed for the sole reason to evade the Nicolau. They foolishly followed SSM&P's advise that it was a "slam dunk".

The legal battles have quite nearly been exhausted and the union doesn't have the spare change to launch more. It is time to move on.

CB

I'll assume then from the collective venom that my understanding now is correct. I'll be honest and admit I have not read your entire contract, just portions from time to time. Since, according to some, I am the hapless victim of a propaganda machine, I thought I would simply ask someone -- perhaps you -- that purports to be in the know for another perspective. I never read or asked about section 1 because there I had no reason to do so.

Now I know why. IF a scenario happens involving a breakup BEFORE and IF a new collective bargaining agreement is reached I can infer it would be easier to go after the west. I reread the document and see that Parker signed a letter of understanding to Woerth repeating these key points. And just why would he do that? No he said she said if/when the time comes.

I'm not looking for you to make my situation "better" -- whatever that means. Just looking for a different perspective, and perhaps a laugh.

 

[Carl S.]

Taco. there is no break up coming, but enjoy your new dream till USAPA spins a new distraction to LOA 93. Did you get to read the Safety chairs letter resigning, WOW!!!! He does not have many friends out East, but we do not want him also. I think it is cute how USAPA leads the guilble like lemmings.

 

[waveflyer]

But your common sense certainly is.

Perfect response to that tired east line