USAPA and the Domicile meeting for PHX/LAS

[get2flyin]

Everyone keeps saying "binding, they just don't understand the word binding"!!!! If it was binding why isn't it being enforced by Dougie??? I don't know how binding it is until it is implemented. It is kind of like winning the lottery, but the state not paying you the millions. You think you won everything, but really you didn't get anything except anger and bitterness. Very sad to see really! Way to go Doug, you are truly an incredible leader and manager! 3.5 years and you still can't finish what you started!!

Lemme guess...another 190 jockey. Sadly, your reality is what USAPA tells you that it is and you've accepted it nicely. At some point, you really ought to consider talking to a West guy to hear their side of the story instead of just accepting the spoon fed, USAPA perspective. I know you have to live with those "gentleman" out East, but maybe it would do you some good to hear a "lottery winners" perspective about getting furloughed. Good luck in your career.

 

[get2flyin]

Oh, BeCareful. You've offered us another "eloquent" submission of just what a D-bag you really are.

Let's have a look at the East mentality, shall we?

If anything dies it will be the west coast flying. The bean counters will kill it as things tighten up economically. Know history, and you will see the future .

Well, you're weak. You should legitimately join USAPA and make a go of this. Big fence....let's go.

So, you've offered us your keen insight into not only the aviation industry, but the national economy as well. You think that PHX and LAS are DOOMED! And then, in a latter paragraph, you generously offer to fence the West pilots into the Hubs you prophesize will close. WOW, THANKS!

As for membership, every rep I've spoken with has said the same thing: you guys all tried to sign up with the understanding that you'd never ever pay dues of any kind....not even what is required for maintenence of the contract.

So, you get what you pay for, I guess.

Wow, you supposedly spoke to the USAPA reps and they told you the West wasn't being nice? HAHA! Seriously? Well you got the info straight from the horses ass, so I have to give you credit there.

A few things for you to think about, if you have time between your USAPA rallies, that is.

A whole lot of West pilots sent applications into your buddy Bradford. They didn't do anything with them. No "thanks for joining", nothing. But then, faced with legal trouble for excluding the West, they spontaniously excepted the ones they'd received. *(HOORAY). Then they tried to have 4 of them fired for not paying dues (didn't they JUST become members?). Your USAPA heroes probably failed to share with you that when they all had a Pow-wow with the company, the West pilots said they handn't been properly accepted by the USAPA. As per the constitution, pilots within a domicile have to be accepted by the local council and there ISN'T a PHX or LAS council. I know, I know, your buddies in your bogus union told you they tried to get reps but no one would play, but the truth is everyone who would do it WOULDN'T support DOH and so USAPA wouldn't allow them to be in your club. Here's the fun part. The company agreed with the West pilots...how can you be fired for not paying dues to an organization you aren't even a part of? Sorry, Charlie, no Westies fired that day.

So what elegant solution did they offer? Why, amend the constitution and force the new members in seconds later. Why are they unable to do this? Read USAPA's constution and you'll find the answer. The NEXT DAY, without even telling the new "members" they had been accepted or that their new "protector" was coming *(NOTHING on the crew-room USAPA board, WOW, surpriseing), they showed up. So, EVERYONE that showed up had been a member for about 24hours, according to USAPA, and yet EVERYONE was in bad standing. I'd tell you to verify this all with your golden boy, Bradford, but he'll just keep B.S.ing you and you'll just keep sucking it all up, like GOOD union pilots.

As far as lowest of the low...yeah, I guess all the CAL scabs and the UAL scabs and the AWA scabs (Ansett Airlines) are great union folks. For your group, the West pilot group with the actual picket line crossing dirty scabs, I guess if it happens below the equator you don't get too worked up about it, eh? Figure you can come back here to the USA and act all bad @ss like you're strong, union guys.

What did AWA have? Less then 10 guys? And aren't they all.......retired? You're a joke.:laugh:

 

[MK82Man]

USAPAs offical take on the meeting

I want to throw up!

USAPA Update
November 13, 2008

Item One - USAPA’s first PHX – LAS Domicile Meeting: The first USAPA PHX and LAS Pilot domicile meeting was held at the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Building in PHX on Tuesday November 11th. The meeting for members in good standing was conducted by the CLT Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR) as per the USAPA Constitution. Since there are currently no PHX or LAS Pilots who have volunteered to serve as USAPA Domicile Representatives, the USAPA Constitution states that the closest geographical domicile will represent the Pilots. In this case, CLT represents PHX and LAS. The Domicile meeting was open to all members in good standing, as is any union meeting (other than “informational”) where union member business is conducted.

CLT Domicile Chairman Captain Dave XXXXX opened the meeting by welcoming the few members present (EDIT: 2 members there!) and introducing the Union officials who were in attendance. Dave stated that although there will always be differences of opinions, having open dialog between Pilots and Board Representatives is the mandatory first step in producing something beneficial for the entire Pilot group. He affirmed that USAPA stands ready at all times to welcome active participation in all levels of the Union.

Vice Chairman Captain Bill XXXXX then discussed the roots of USAPA and provided a short history of Pilot union representation on both AWA and US Airways properties during the previous decade. He reminded those in attendance that both the former AWA and pre-merger US Airways Pilots acted to remove ALPA off the properties. Bill pointed out that the roots of USAPA were in place long before any merger announcement with AWA and that the inclusion of many of our super senior Pilots, such as CLT Domicile Chairman Captain XXXXXXX, seniority number 1XX, is indicative of that fact. Having Pilots represent the interests of the former America West Pilots at the Board level, or any level within the Union, is what it will take to move the interests of the entire Pilot group forward.

CLT Vice Chairman First Officer Steve XXXXX emphasized mutual respect and courtesy and, most importantly, the need to maintain our professionalism in the workplace.

USAPA President First Officer Stephen Bradford welcomed all the participants and talked about the many inherent advantages for the Pilots as outlined in USAPA’s Constitution. President Bradford focused on the recently announced USAPA Officer elections and the upcoming Domicile Representative elections, of which PHL and PHX will be the first elections conducted. His words were spoken with a sense of pride and accomplishment, as the Union follows its mandate of embracing the true democratic process. He stated the only requirement to run for a USAPA Officer position is that you are a member in good standing, and the best way for all Pilots to be heard is through participation.

President Bradford also informed the group that the first USAPA ballot on issues affecting the Pilots was completed on Monday, November 10. The results of the ballot were favorable, with a yes vote to Constitutional Amendments (which required 2/3rd majority), medical insurance assistance for furloughees (EDIT: but not the 100+ AWA Furloughees, since we had no path for membership prior to the vote) and the conditionally-proposed merger assessment for future mergers. Equally impressive was the level of voter participation; over 70% of the eligible Pilots voted, which was a level of participation much greater than under the previous bargaining agent and is indicative of the continued strong support for USAPA.

USAPA Secretary Treasurer Captain Mark XXXX then briefed the members on the financial status and membership numbers of the Union. The financial standing of the Union is strong; monthly dues revenue is well above the Union’s expenditures, in addition to money in the bank. Any notion that USAPA is financially weak or that total expenditures are difficult to meet are unfounded. Captain XXXX noted that with the former bargaining agent, over 70% of your dues money stayed in Herndon, whereas with USAPA all US Airways Pilots’ dues stays here, working for the US Airways Pilots. Captain XXXX also noted that our Pilots’ dues money is protected from the frivolous expenditures experienced in the past. USAPA’s monetary philosophy, such as conducting Union business at crew hotels (EDIT: but not the PHX/LAS MTG at the Federal Mediation Building), standard contract Pilot per diem rates while doing Union business and no alcohol purchases, all add up to a lean organization that allows all member dues to be put to use where our Pilots benefit the most. Captain XXXX stated that there are currently in excess of 3,400 USAPA Union Members. (EDIT: Not according to USAPA's statement when the votes came out on Nov 10.) Captain XXXX emphasized that members must be dues current by December 15th in order to participate in the upcoming Officer elections.

USAPA Executive Vice President First Officer Gary XXXXX briefed the members on the status of the Union’s infrastructure, including all the items that make a Union functional. The Union’s phone system, computers systems, office space and contracts all have to be managed. The Union basically outsources all services in order to run as efficiently as possible. Gary invited Union members to the USAPA Office and assured them that they would be impressed with what they found. The Union has also employed Sherry XXXX to assist the R&I Committee as a benefits advisor and to establish a Human Resources program for the Union. He stated that USAPA has developed the foundation it requires in order to serve the needs of its Pilots.

Merger Committee Chairman Captain Randy XXXXX then discussed USAPA’s Section 22 Seniority contract position in detail. Captain XXXXX expressed the fact that US Airways is a date-of-hire airline and when you bring two airlines together with dissimilar demographics, Conditions and Restrictions (C&Rs) are required to protect Pilots. Captain XXXXX then initiated a detailed briefing on the C&Rs and added examples so that members were clear on the impact the C&Rs will have on Pilots. Captain XXXXX then noted that Pilots in general and former AWA Pilots in particular, seem unaware of the actual C&Rs and what role they play in the protection of former AWA Pilots.

A discussion ensued about how a lack of dialog concerning the C&Rs contributes to misunderstandings, making Mr. Parker the sole apparent winner. It is interesting to note that during the discussion, President Bradford interjected that it was entirely conceivable that under the C&Rs, First Officer Bradford (who, with a 1986 hire date holds a Captain bid but flies as a First Officer), could easily be raising the gear for the 1997 former AWA Captain present in the room. This exemplifies the value of the C&Rs to the former AWA Pilots and what they mean to all Pilots.
USAPA is concerned that many Pilots are not familiar with what the C&Rs bring to the table. The Merger Committee page on the USAPA web site, which is currently available to all Pilots (members and non-members), includes information regarding the C&Rs, with examples and FAQs. The Communications Committee, along with the Merger Committee, will redouble its efforts in disseminating the C&Rs.

After some short committee briefings from Communications, Pilot 4 Pilot and the Furlough Committee, the meeting adjourned at approximately 1820 local time.

There is one other issue that we would like to report to the Pilots concerning the meeting. Just prior to the meeting, a group of approximately 18 former AWA non-union member Pilots were present and requested to stay at the meeting. USAPA had made it very clear on the meeting invitations that the meeting was only open to members in good standing -- those who pay dues as active Union members. When asked to leave, they drew cameras to shoot pictures of both USAPA Officials and those who remained seated; it was obvious that a planned camera shoot was taking place. After a short display of frustration, non-members vacated the room and when only union members remained, the meeting convened. USAPA wants to make it perfectly clear that the Union wants Pilot participation and dialog, but Union meetings have and always will be reserved for members in good standing. In fact, the overlying theme of the entire meeting was participation and representation. All the speakers welcomed former AWA Pilots to assume leadership positions in the Union when they can do so without fear of reprisals from their fellow Pilots, so that all points of view can be heard and debated. All the speakers stressed that dialog and Union participation are part of the solution.

 

[Carl S.]

"All points of view can be heard"! But to join USAPA you must accept DOH and to be an elected official or appointed at this time, you must take an oath to DOH! The sides are so polarized that only the courts can settle this, but the spin from the East is well beyond a cult!

 

[Fast43]

Doesn't the same group of laws also state that a closed shop employee must pay union dues as a condition of employment? It is my understanding that not all pilots are paying their union dues because they don't agree with the union. Does the union still have to represent people in bad standing?

YES that is correct, they do!!!

 

[cactusboy53]

Does everyone out west still trust and believe in Doug? That man does not care about ex amer west pilots, he looks at you just like the US Air pilots, a liability that takes his profits. If you believe Doug you are crazy!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget, Doug is the same person that said the AWA was looking at financial trouble too (while we were hiring, upgrading 6 year FO's, growing, and getting airplanes).

So, which way do you want it? Grasp at the straw "AWA was in trouble, too." or "If you believe Doug, you are crazy!!!"?? You can't have it both ways, bub.

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

I was going to have a leisurely 'd o uc he' but what do you know. That Bradford guy came by from nowhere quicker than lickity spit, stole my 'do uc he' and shoved that that thing so far in his ass I dont think we'll ever see it again!. Funny thing is he said it was ritefully HIS and he and Semen would first enjoy it then make me pay! What nerve!

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Lemme guess...another 190 jockey. Sadly, your reality is what USAPA tells you that it is and you've accepted it nicely. At some point, you really ought to consider talking to a West guy to hear their side of the story instead of just accepting the spoon fed, USAPA perspective. I know you have to live with those "gentleman" out East, but maybe it would do you some good to hear a "lottery winners" perspective about getting furloughed. Good luck in your career.

Look chief, this has nothing to do with what USAPA tells me. I was an out sider with no vote. I am unbiased since DOH or Nic don't affect me either way. I am junior no matter what. I have spoken with friends of mine from the west and I worked out east. DOH makes since to me because when I am 55 and my company merges with another I don't want to lose seniority. I also think it is ridiculous that a 4.5 year copilot is being furloughed before a 8 month copilot. Who's fault? Doug! Doug makes these choices! The point is I have an opinion and so do you, but we obviously will never agree. I just want everyone, east and west, to recognize our "leader," the man with 3 dui's, the man who has direct control over our lives is the one furloughing all of us and downsizing LAS, not USAPA and not ALPA. We don't have to agree on terms of contract and our union representation, but we should all stand together against the evil rulers we call management that works over on Rio Salado Drive.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Don't forget, Doug is the same person that said the AWA was looking at financial trouble too (while we were hiring, upgrading 6 year FO's, growing, and getting airplanes).

So, which way do you want it? Grasp at the straw "AWA was in trouble, too." or "If you believe Doug, you are crazy!!!"?? You can't have it both ways, bub.

Financial trouble has nothing to do with my point. I never brought up the finances of the now defunct amer west or the old us airways. Neither pilot group had any handle on finances anyways. Amer west pilots didn't take pay cuts to "save us airways," just like us airways pilots didn't do anything to save amer west. If you still trust Doug after what he has done to both sides you are insane. Doug is the person furloughing the 4.5 year copilot before the 8 month copilot from the east, not us airways east pilots and not USAPA. Doug is the one to blame. We need to agree on one thing and that is to fight against Doug and not each other. We can still disagree about seniority, which we all know will be a disagreement no side will budge on. We need to grow up and at least fight the iron curtian over on Rio Salado Drive.

 

[m80drvr]

Look chief, this has nothing to do with what USAPA tells me. I was an out sider with no vote. I am unbiased since DOH or Nic don't affect me either way. I am junior no matter what. I have spoken with friends of mine from the west and I worked out east. DOH makes since to me because when I am 55 and my company merges with another I don't want to lose seniority. I also think it is ridiculous that a 4.5 year copilot is being furloughed before a 8 month copilot. Who's fault? Doug! Doug makes these choices! The point is I have an opinion and so do you, but we obviously will never agree. I just want everyone, east and west, to recognize our "leader," the man with 3 dui's, the man who has direct control over our lives is the one furloughing all of us and downsizing LAS, not USAPA and not ALPA. We don't have to agree on terms of contract and our union representation, but we should all stand together against the evil rulers we call management that works over on Rio Salado Drive.

Hey Idiot.... If you actually knew what was going on you woud realise that USAPA OUR union was just in court fighting WITH the company to keep more senior pilots on the street. Yup DOH only applies if it screwing the west pilots.

Don't get me wrong Doug is a lying a$$whole but a "union" that sells out it's own principles and rules to screw it's own members is a joke. Your "union is fighting to keep more senior pilots on furlough.

Take the assessment for health insurance for the furloughed pilots. Only a member in good standing can get the insurance.......WELLLLLLL their was no vehicle for a west pilot to be a member in good standing by the deadline. It was impossible for the west furloughed pilots to get the same coverage as the east pilots.

I could list a hundred more items like this but you have drank too much east coolaid.

Enjoy your career with usairways......you now work for the worst airline in history and you are a member of the biggest joke of a union.

good luck

Ps if the famed 55 year old pilot was a reverve first officer why should he immediately become a line holding captain at the expense of another younger pilot group. That's fair in your book I guess.

Wait until it happens to you.

 

[m80drvr]

Financial trouble has nothing to do with my point. I never brought up the finances of the now defunct amer west or the old us airways. Neither pilot group had any handle on finances anyways. Amer west pilots didn't take pay cuts to "save us airways," just like us airways pilots didn't do anything to save amer west. If you still trust Doug after what he has done to both sides you are insane. Doug is the person furloughing the 4.5 year copilot before the 8 month copilot from the east, not us airways east pilots and not USAPA. Doug is the one to blame. We need to agree on one thing and that is to fight against Doug and not each other. We can still disagree about seniority, which we all know will be a disagreement no side will budge on. We need to grow up and at least fight the iron curtian over on Rio Salado Drive.

USAPA was just in court fighting with Doug to let this happen. 6 months ago when a grievance was filed by the west to stop the furloughs USAPA DECLINED to pursue it. No kidding your union said it was ok to furlough the more senior west pilots. It was only AFTER ucrapa was sued that they brought the grievance back. Then like I said UCRAPA argued with the company to make sure the furloughs happen to the west pilots. Some union!

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Hey Idiot.... If you actually knew what was going on you woud realise that USAPA OUR union was just in court fighting WITH the company to keep more senior pilots on the street. Yup DOH only applies if it screwing the west pilots.

Don't get me wrong Doug is a lying a$$whole but a "union" that sells out it's own principles and rules to screw it's own members is a joke. Your "union is fighting to keep more senior pilots on furlough.

Take the assessment for health insurance for the furloughed pilots. Only a member in good standing can get the insurance.......WELLLLLLL their was no vehicle for a west pilot to be a member in good standing by the deadline. It was impossible for the west furloughed pilots to get the same coverage as the east pilots.

I could list a hundred more items like this but you have drank too much east coolaid.

Enjoy your career with usairways......you now work for the worst airline in history and you are a member of the biggest joke of a union.

good luck

Ps if the famed 55 year old pilot was a reverve first officer why should he immediately become a line holding captain at the expense of another younger pilot group. That's fair in your book I guess.

Wait until it happens to you.

Idiot huh? I love the professionalism you show to a fellow pilot. Since I was placed out east outside of my control you have to hate me. What a guy! It is unfortunate you post on this forum because everyone out there who doesn't know any west pilots will think they are all uneducated clowns like yourself. I apologize to all that read this. Not all of us at US Airways(east or west) are like this guy. Once again, this is not about east vs. west or doh vs. nic, but US (no pun intended) vs. Doug. Doug is no good! He is evil and he is creating more and more unnecessary issues between two pilot groups. NOT USAPA, but US AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT!!!!! When will we realize this?????

 

[BeCareful!]

It's a good effort, HockeyFan, but I don't think you'll get through to the West pilots who live, er, I mean, post here on FI.com

Their lack of professionalism here mimics the worst of the stunts the West pilot group has pulled in public. Thinks like: Placing a large poster against the pedestal of the Bus during boarding so that passengers could read their inane, false accusations about scabs and whatnot. Assaulting east pilot in PHX terminal (got fired for that one.) Stranding east non revs in LAS in favor of junior West employees (got fired for that, too.....broke several fedral laws in the process....not even the mighty ALPA could save that guy.)

No, these guys are a class act I actually know several West pilots who are good guys, but their rhetoric and lack of prefessionalism here makes them all look foolish.

 

[m80drvr]

Idiot huh? I love the professionalism you show to a fellow pilot. Since I was placed out east outside of my control you have to hate me. What a guy! It is unfortunate you post on this forum because everyone out there who doesn't know any west pilots will think they are all uneducated clowns like yourself. I apologize to all that read this. Not all of us at US Airways(east or west) are like this guy. Once again, this is not about east vs. west or doh vs. nic, but US (no pun intended) vs. Doug. Doug is no good! He is evil and he is creating more and more unnecessary issues between two pilot groups. NOT USAPA, but US AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT!!!!! When will we realize this?????

You have no idea what my history is with USAir.

That being said you spout some drivle about how you are sorry others have to read this and that I'm un professional yet you do not refute ANYTHING I said.

UCRAPA and the east pilots made this an east vs west fight not Doug. Lets see...

It was the east pilots that decided on the all or nothing DOH stance (all the while the arbitrator was saying DOH would not work).

It was not the west pilots that threw a tantrum after the Nic was published. (EAP program....come on.....really)

It was not the west pilots that REFUSED to negoitate a new contract while the company was making HUGE profits.

It was the east pilots that decided they didn't want to abide by an arbitration that THEY AREED to.

It was the east pilots that decided to make a new union with the STATED goal of screwing over 1/3 of the pilots.

It was the east pilots that decided to run a "union" with representatives for 1/3 of the pilot group.

It was the east pilots that sided with the company when it came to furloughing out of DOH order because it mostly effected the west.

It was the east pilots that offered to have a vote on the furloughed pilots health insurance with FULL knowledge the NOT one east pilot could have been member in good standing before the deadline.

It was the east pilots that made an agreement with the company to transfer the 6 most junior pilots back to the east side so they would not get furloughed. Then sided with the company and said it was impossible to transfer the west pilots to the east so they could bump junior probationary pilots. Separate operations only applies when it benefits the east


Shall I go on..........?

You may be the best guy in the world, but you open yourself up to discussions and dissenting opinions when you post on an open web board. Especially when you suggest that the fight is with Doug and not a "union" that is openly trying to take my job. In fact USAPA has taken the jobs of 90 pilots while probationary pilots still collect a paycheck. Again, USAPA fought with the company to allow this.

You are right that this shoud be a fight agaist dougwiesr but the actions of the east and your pi$$ed off FO club "union" had made it an east west fight.

Honestly do you think a union that needs two police officers to come to their meeting is really working for all it's pilots....... Wake up... take off the rose colored glasses.

And don't question my profrssionalism due to the responses on a message board.

 

[Sandhawk]

It's a good effort, HockeyFan, but I don't think you'll get through to the West pilots who live, er, I mean, post here on FI.com

Their lack of professionalism here mimics the worst of the stunts the West pilot group has pulled in public. STUNTS LIKE PLACING A USA TODAY AD? SHOOTING A HOLE IN A BUS? DOING THE BRADLEY BAJA IN A BOEING? Things like: Placing a large poster against the pedestal of the Bus during boarding so that passengers could read their inane, false accusations about scabs and whatnot. Assaulting east pilot in PHX terminal (got fired for that one.) FIRED, REALLY? - NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT ONE......... Stranding east non revs in LAS in favor of junior West employees (got fired for that, too.....broke several fedral laws in the process....not even the mighty ALPA could save that guy.) FIRED, TOO? - NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT ONE EITHER.........

No, these guys are a class act I actually know several West pilots who are good guys, but their rhetoric and lack of prefessionalism here makes them all look foolish. HELLO POT, MEET KETTLE!!

Here's your sign.............

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

You have no idea what my history is with USAir.

That being said you spout some drivle about how you are sorry others have to read this and that I'm un professional yet you do not refute ANYTHING I said.

UCRAPA and the east pilots made this an east vs west fight not Doug. Lets see...

It was the east pilots that decided on the all or nothing DOH stance (all the while the arbitrator was saying DOH would not work).

It was not the west pilots that threw a tantrum after the Nic was published. (EAP program....come on.....really)

It was not the west pilots that REFUSED to negoitate a new contract while the company was making HUGE profits.

It was the east pilots that decided they didn't want to abide by an arbitration that THEY AREED to.

It was the east pilots that decided to make a new union with the STATED goal of screwing over 1/3 of the pilots.

It was the east pilots that decided to run a "union" with representatives for 1/3 of the pilot group.

It was the east pilots that sided with the company when it came to furloughing out of DOH order because it mostly effected the west.

It was the east pilots that offered to have a vote on the furloughed pilots health insurance with FULL knowledge the NOT one east pilot could have been member in good standing before the deadline.

It was the east pilots that made an agreement with the company to transfer the 6 most junior pilots back to the east side so they would not get furloughed. Then sided with the company and said it was impossible to transfer the west pilots to the east so they could bump junior probationary pilots. Separate operations only applies when it benefits the east


Shall I go on..........?

You may be the best guy in the world, but you open yourself up to discussions and dissenting opinions when you post on an open web board. Especially when you suggest that the fight is with Doug and not a "union" that is openly trying to take my job. In fact USAPA has taken the jobs of 90 pilots while probationary pilots still collect a paycheck. Again, USAPA fought with the company to allow this.

USAPA is trying get better pay and work rules, but also asking for DOH. Once again we will never agreee on it's practices, just like we would never agree about what ALPA has done/not done for our industry. I just want to see everyone put things aside and tell Doug, "look we have our problems, but you US AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT needs to work around us. Don't expect us to fix your problems, give us new pay rates and work rules and let us operate seperately like we are right now." Doug could give us the new USAPA pay rates and work rules, but he refuses to. Look at DAL/NWA no seniority list, but new pay and contract. DOUG is to blame, Doug is to blame, and Doug is to blame. We need to be upset with Rio Salado Drive not CLT vs. PHX. DOUG is Evil!!!

 

[m80drvr]

It's a good effort, HockeyFan, but I don't think you'll get through to the West pilots who live, er, (GLASS HOUSE)I mean, post here on FI.com

Their lack of professionalism (professional abide by their agreement don't they)here mimics the worst of the stunts the West pilot group has pulled in public. Thinks like: Placing a large poster against the pedestal of the Bus during boarding so that passengers could read their inane, false accusations about scabs and whatnot. Assaulting east pilot in PHX terminal (got fired for that one.) Stranding east non revs in LAS in favor of junior West employees (got fired for that, too.....broke several fedral laws in the process....not even the mighty ALPA could save that guy.) Fairly sure you made up ALL of those. Good try though.

No, these guys are a class act I actually know several West pilots who are good guys, but their rhetoric and lack of prefessionalism here makes them all look foolish. ( Foolish? hmmmm I'm not sure you want to go there......Most FI readers think you guys are idiots at best.....)

Yawn.......waiting for MCDOOOOOOOSH to chime in.

 

[m80drvr]

USAPA is trying get better pay and work rules, but also asking for DOH. Once again we will never agreee on it's practices, just like we would never agree about what ALPA has done/not done for our industry. I just want to see everyone put things aside and tell Doug(So the west pilots should just roll over to the will of the east? The west should ignore a fair slotting arbitration in favor of a USAPA list that had NO input from the west pilots. A 55 year old Reserve fo should be able to be a captain just becaus of the merger?...no thanks... You started the fight not us), "look we have our problems, but you US AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT needs to work around us. Don't expect us to fix your problems, give us new pay rates and work rules and let us operate seperately like we are right now." Doug could give us the new USAPA pay rates and work rules, but he refuses to.( Reality check junior......our reps told your reps that Doug operates on the delay delay delay mo while in negotiations. You were warned, instead of fighting for a contract when the company was making money you guys threw a tantrum and took you ball and went home.........Now the company is losing money and the economy is facing the biggest recession since the 20s. and you think you are going to get a raise. Hell you could have had west book plus but remember Scabfords mantra of "our seniority is not for sale". You are right it isn't for sale, you're going to have to PAY doug to get anything you want). Look at DAL/NWA no seniority list, but new pay and contract. DOUG is to blame, Doug is to blame, and Doug is to blame ( Doug is to blame for delta being better negotiators?....more east "it's everyone elses flault not mine"....look in a mirror you might not like what you see.) We need to be upset with Rio Salado Drive not CLT vs. PHX. DOUG is Evil!!!

Next!!!

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Next!!!

Still unable to see Doug as the problem eh senior? Keep blaming USAPA and east pilots. Keep looking in the past and not towards the future(if there is one). As for the past, I do remember the west pilots agreeing to fly the A330 for the same bankruptcty pay and work rules as the east. Never once trying to negotiate a higher pay or better work rules. Now for the future, we shall see if we make progress or more crying about how we all got hosed over(east and west).

 

[OnTheDole]

I also think it is ridiculous that a 4.5 year copilot is being furloughed before a 8 month copilot. Who's fault? Doug! Doug makes these choices!

Doug (and EVERY CEO out there) makes choices in regards to whats best for the sharholders, not whats right for the empoyees - the only thing in place to stop that is the union. Doug knew he could get away with the out of senority furlough because it only affects the west therefore USAPA wouldn't spend a second defending against it. So Dougs doing what CEO's have been trying to do for decades - but its the "union" that allowed him do it. If you and the majority of the East can't (or refuse to) see it for what its worth, hypocracy of the DOH mantra, then you're blind.

 

[Carl S.]

Doug is milking the USAPA/East USAPA cult members for all it is worth! The West only has the courts to correct the damage USAPA does and has to react after the damage is done. My bet is the next CLT crewnews, the first question will be about pay parity.
How is the LCC/USAPA legal team working on the injunction/DFR? The West is at one table and LCC/USAPA is at the other.

 

[m80drvr]

Still unable to see Doug as the problem eh senior?
(Nope Doug is part of the problem. You are unwilling to recognize that USAPA is what is stifling any chance at unity. But that's to be expected...the average east pilot has no idea what is going on.) eep blaming USAPA and east pilots. (I will, don't worry....when you screw with my family you make an enemy for life) Keep looking in the past and not towards the future( By saying looking at the past you mean the meeting that took place on the 11th? The lack of representation of the west is on going. The lawsuits, …..The furloughs that don’t even follow ucrapas DOH list,…..Siding with the company to keep the furloughs out west...This is not the past m0r0n it's the present, on going, continuing. Maybe UCRAPA should give up the past and move on how about that....but no, in you estimation it's entirely the west pilots fault and they should just move on. It was the east that agreed to the arbitration then walked away when they didn’t get what they wanted. Yet YOU suggest the west should take it in the shorts just to get you a raise. UNBELIEVABLE... If anyone needs to move on it will be UCRAPA. You only suggest the west should move on because it helps you.(if there is one). As for the past, I do remember the west pilots agreeing to fly the A330 for the same bankruptcty pay and work rules as the east. (Sigh…We didn’t get higher rates to fly the 330’s so the company could not whip saw us…….Higher rates would have also forced the east to activate the ERP program again.) Never once trying to negotiate a higher pay or better work rules. (Do you honestly think Doug would have agree to higher rates than the east anyway…..) Now for the future, we shall see if we make progress or more crying about how we all got hosed over (east and west). We are where we are because of your pilots unwillingness to follow their agreements. You don’t have a better contract for that reason and that reason alone.

I'm on the street after 4 years, I brought a job to this merger. Yet you... a new hire is still providing for your family.....you have alot to learn about people and this industry.



Since you failed to respond to any of the points I have brought up I will allow you the last word, I'm tired of debating people that just keep spouting the "we all need to get along mantre" without understanding how we got here.

 

[MCDU]

I'm on the street after 4 years, I brought a job to this merger. Yet you... a new hire is still providing for your family.....you have alot to learn about people and this industry.


You brought a worthless job to the merger. AWA would have been gone had they not merged. USair East is subsidizing the operations out west since the merger. Very low revenue out West. Maybe they will close the whole West down. Then the Westies do not have to worry about USAPA anymore.

By the way. New seniority numbers are out for East pilots. Still lots of attrition. Many have moved up quite a deal. To bad we are still shrinking. Without the attrition we would have seen a lot more furloughs out East.

By the way most former USAIR East furloughed pilots are holding blocks and are flying Widebodies to Europe again, just like the did prior to 9/11/2001.
This thanks to the min. block hours and min hull required by LOA 93. These are East jobs bought to the merger and Westies want them. Westies want to take East positions and they want to fly Widebodies. If not, they would agree to a long fence.

AWA pilot group just like the prop 8 group out in CAL.

M

Can not wait for some of junior Westies who infest this board to chime in.

 

[reepicheep]

I agree...we need to get back to the core values that made usair the industry-leading success it was back in the 90's and into the early 2000's. (And don't try and confuse the issue with phony financial numbers - we all know those multi-billion dollar losses were pure negotiating tactics; they can massage those results any way they want.)
Unload the loser west routes like we did PSA....BusinessSelect©, Operation High Ground, F100's & DC-9's. Ithica, Elmira, Scranton. THAT was a real airline.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Sioux HF-
Everyone at US needs to hold Bradford and USAPA accountable for their needless delay in securing a joint contract by continuing to pursue the dead-end DOH SLI.

I don't fault Parker. USAPA is the sole reason that Nicolau has not been implemented in a joint contract. They are blatantly protecting the east at the expense of the west and that is the crux of the DFR lawsuit.

 

[m80drvr]

I'm on the street after 4 years, I brought a job to this merger. Yet you... a new hire is still providing for your family.....you have alot to learn about people and this industry.


You brought a worthless job to the merger. AWA would have been gone had they not merged. (Really Karnak tell me more........I guess you can see the future...does it also include the fact that you and the rest of the east pilots would be on the street. USair East is subsidizing the operations out west since the merger.(AWA Airline subsidized the merger. If the east is such a financial powerhouse how come you you guys keep going into bankrupcy? Oh I get it....it's a negotiating tactic... Very low revenue out West. Maybe they will close the whole West down. Then the Westies do not have to worry about USAPA anymore.

By the way. New seniority numbers are out for East pilots. Still lots of attrition. Many have moved up quite a deal. To bad we are still shrinking. Without the attrition we would have seen a lot more furloughs out East.

By the way most former USAIR East furloughed pilots are holding blocks and are flying Widebodies to Europe again, just like the did prior to 9/11/2001.
This thanks to the min. block hours and min hull required by LOA 93. These are East jobs bought to the merger and Westies want them. Westies want to take East positions and they want to fly Widebodies. If not, they would agree to a long fence.

AWA pilot group just like the prop 8 group out in CAL. Nice...everytime you open your mouth and spout off crap like that just makes you and the rest of the east pilots look idiotic. You respond to fact with emotion and insults.....You guys are great. Can't wait until the whole place tanks.....there is not an airline in the country that is going to hire you guys


M

Can not wait for some of junior Westies who infest this board to chime in.

Hey MCDOOOOOOOOSH

I get a laugh reading your stuff though. Thanks

PS easties don't bother applying with my company...they won't hire you..........Karma is a bitch.

The SWA guys did a great job getting SWA/FO to STFU.......Hopefully the east guys will do it to you.

 

[Lampshade]

Sioux you been here 9 months and are completely brain washed! Nothing is going to move until the seniority thing is settled! no new contract, no pay parity, no FA contract it's all up to USAPA to remove there head from there azz or have the courts do it for them.

Also as a soon to be furloughed, you should be advised that east will sell you down the river for a couple of shekels. Good Luck.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Since the Prime Directive of USAPA is to terminate those with dissenting opinions rather than listening and bending towards the will of 1/3 of the pilots, I have to wonder how Parker will handle the termination of 33% of his airline? Will he be allowed the luxury of terminating folks at the same rate that they can be replaced? Must all be terminated at once? Can a class action suit be filed on behalf of all non-payers to require the company to terminate all at once or none at all?

How sweet it would be to see the easties packing up their flight bags as the last US jet is delivered to the Victorville, under the title, "BE CAREFUL what you ask for, you just might get it."

Which is not to say it would be sweeter still to see them come to their senses, abandon DOH for now, move on unified and build a winning airline. Not bloody likely, but sweeter none the less.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Since the Prime Directive of USAPA is to terminate those with dissenting opinions rather than listening and bending towards the will of 1/3 of the pilots, I have to wonder how Parker will handle the termination of 33% of his airline? Will he be allowed the luxury of terminating folks at the same rate that they can be replaced? Must all be terminated at once? Can a class action suit be filed on behalf of all non-payers to require the company to terminate all at once or none at all?

How sweet it would be to see the easties packing up their flight bags as the last US jet is delivered to the Victorville, under the title, "BE CAREFUL what you ask for, you just might get it."

Which is not to say it would be sweeter still to see them come to their senses, abandon DOH for now, move on unified and build a winning airline. Not bloody likely, but sweeter none the less.

On that same note, would it be unreasonable to expect the ex amer west pilots to abandon NIC for now, move on unified and build a winning airline? Not likely! We will have to agree to disagree. Oh well, our fate is in Doug's hands now!!

 

[Carl S.]

AAA is long dead, the past is a distant memory. LCC is a split pilot group with one side having the lowest mainline rates and worst work rules for a long time to come.