USAPA and the Domicile meeting for PHX/LAS

[becket]

haha...

If anything dies it will be the west coast flying. The bean counters will kill it as things tighten up economically. Know history, and you will see the future


.

I agree 100%. I do know history and it's called PSA. Everything US Air touches turns to sh*t. That's the historical record. I know, I know, you have such great "yields". We'll those killer yields sent you to BK twice in 3 years.

Your airline lost 4/5ths of a BILLION dollars in 3 months. DP is publicly questioning your survival. I believe in Karma and I think it's coming around this time to finally Kick US Air in the ass.

 

[MESAhater]

hmmmm...

 

[MESAhater]

Your kidding, right?


PHXFLYR

Of course he/she was kidding. Why would they want their fellow pilots to get along?????? Why would they want to see Doug accept the new USAPA pay rates???? Better than the pay rates AWA wanted to fly the a/c for. All of us at USA/AWE need to get out of the "commuter" mentality and get back to being the highest paid legacy carrier like US Air was is 1999. Call me crazy, but why would we not want a pay raise???? This is no longer Mesa Grande!!!!!

 

[MESAhater]

Everyone keeps saying "binding, they just don't understand the word binding"!!!! If it was binding why isn't it being enforced by Dougie??? I don't know how binding it is until it is implemented. It is kind of like winning the lottery, but the state not paying you the millions. You think you won everything, but really you didn't get anything except anger and bitterness. Very sad to see really! Way to go Doug, you are truly an incredible leader and manager! 3.5 years and you still can't finish what you started!!

 

[PHXFLYR]

No solidarity amongst the pilots, no leverage at the negotiating table with management. No leverage at the negotitiong table with management, no pay raise.

Just wishing for a pay raise isn't going to get you one . And that toothless tiger you goons refer to as a "union" isn't going to be getting you one anytime soon either.


PHXFLYR

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Doug said it yesterday at the crew news meeting in PHX. "The company and USAPA are WAY, WAY, WAY apart" - referring to contract negotiations. Now, I know that's typical management rhetoric, but I believe him. And they know they can keep the operation seperate, furlough the more expensive pilots out west and enjoy the benefits of LOA93. Congrats, USAPA. You'll have five more years of LOA93, if this place makes it that long. You heard it here first.

Oh, and he also said "I have a list". Wonder which one he was referring to?

 

[regionaltard]

Worst of the worst... You make me laugh...

Even a scab has enough integrity not to pretend he's something other than what he is by cloaking himself in the mantle of trade unionism as he goes about the business of screwing his fellow pilots. Worst of the worst is an understatement.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Doug said it yesterday at the crew news meeting in PHX. "The company and USAPA are WAY, WAY, WAY apart" - referring to contract negotiations. Now, I know that's typical management rhetoric, but I believe him. And they know they can keep the operation seperate, furlough the more expensive pilots out west and enjoy the benefits of LOA93. Congrats, USAPA. You'll have five more years of LOA93, if this place makes it that long. You heard it here first.

Oh, and he also said "I have a list". Wonder which one he was referring to?

Does everyone out west still trust and believe in Doug? That man does not care about ex amer west pilots, he looks at you just like the US Air pilots, a liability that takes his profits. If you believe Doug you are crazy!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Carl S.]

At least when Parker F's us, he does it not under the false banner of a union for all 5200 LCC pilots and I expect the company to screw me, not the union!

 

[get2flyin]

Wow! Classy statement in regards to a group of pilots that disagree wtih you. Can't wait to fly with you when/if we get a combined list.

I know your new East pilot buddies are telling you that the West guys are trying to steal what's rightfully belongs to them. This isn't a case of simple disagreement. If you were furloughed after 4 1/2 years instead of comfortably sitting in a 190 after the 2 years or so that you've been there, you would understand.

On the bright side, I don't think you'll have to worry about flying with the "big, bad" West pilots anytime some. Your union will see to that. Out of curiousity, do you wear a USAPA lanyard?

 

[get2flyin]

Everyone keeps saying "binding, they just don't understand the word binding"!!!! If it was binding why isn't it being enforced by Dougie??? I don't know how binding it is until it is implemented. It is kind of like winning the lottery, but the state not paying you the millions. You think you won everything, but really you didn't get anything except anger and bitterness. Very sad to see really! Way to go Doug, you are truly an incredible leader and manager! 3.5 years and you still can't finish what you started!!

Lemme guess...another 190 jockey. Sadly, your reality is what USAPA tells you that it is and you've accepted it nicely. At some point, you really ought to consider talking to a West guy to hear their side of the story instead of just accepting the spoon fed, USAPA perspective. I know you have to live with those "gentleman" out East, but maybe it would do you some good to hear a "lottery winners" perspective about getting furloughed. Good luck in your career.

 

[get2flyin]

Oh, BeCareful. You've offered us another "eloquent" submission of just what a D-bag you really are.

Let's have a look at the East mentality, shall we?

If anything dies it will be the west coast flying. The bean counters will kill it as things tighten up economically. Know history, and you will see the future .

Well, you're weak. You should legitimately join USAPA and make a go of this. Big fence....let's go.

So, you've offered us your keen insight into not only the aviation industry, but the national economy as well. You think that PHX and LAS are DOOMED! And then, in a latter paragraph, you generously offer to fence the West pilots into the Hubs you prophesize will close. WOW, THANKS!

As for membership, every rep I've spoken with has said the same thing: you guys all tried to sign up with the understanding that you'd never ever pay dues of any kind....not even what is required for maintenence of the contract.

So, you get what you pay for, I guess.

Wow, you supposedly spoke to the USAPA reps and they told you the West wasn't being nice? HAHA! Seriously? Well you got the info straight from the horses ass, so I have to give you credit there.

A few things for you to think about, if you have time between your USAPA rallies, that is.

A whole lot of West pilots sent applications into your buddy Bradford. They didn't do anything with them. No "thanks for joining", nothing. But then, faced with legal trouble for excluding the West, they spontaniously excepted the ones they'd received. *(HOORAY). Then they tried to have 4 of them fired for not paying dues (didn't they JUST become members?). Your USAPA heroes probably failed to share with you that when they all had a Pow-wow with the company, the West pilots said they handn't been properly accepted by the USAPA. As per the constitution, pilots within a domicile have to be accepted by the local council and there ISN'T a PHX or LAS council. I know, I know, your buddies in your bogus union told you they tried to get reps but no one would play, but the truth is everyone who would do it WOULDN'T support DOH and so USAPA wouldn't allow them to be in your club. Here's the fun part. The company agreed with the West pilots...how can you be fired for not paying dues to an organization you aren't even a part of? Sorry, Charlie, no Westies fired that day.

So what elegant solution did they offer? Why, amend the constitution and force the new members in seconds later. Why are they unable to do this? Read USAPA's constution and you'll find the answer. The NEXT DAY, without even telling the new "members" they had been accepted or that their new "protector" was coming *(NOTHING on the crew-room USAPA board, WOW, surpriseing), they showed up. So, EVERYONE that showed up had been a member for about 24hours, according to USAPA, and yet EVERYONE was in bad standing. I'd tell you to verify this all with your golden boy, Bradford, but he'll just keep B.S.ing you and you'll just keep sucking it all up, like GOOD union pilots.

As far as lowest of the low...yeah, I guess all the CAL scabs and the UAL scabs and the AWA scabs (Ansett Airlines) are great union folks. For your group, the West pilot group with the actual picket line crossing dirty scabs, I guess if it happens below the equator you don't get too worked up about it, eh? Figure you can come back here to the USA and act all bad @ss like you're strong, union guys.

What did AWA have? Less then 10 guys? And aren't they all.......retired? You're a joke.:laugh:

 

[MK82Man]

USAPAs offical take on the meeting

I want to throw up!

USAPA Update
November 13, 2008

Item One - USAPA’s first PHX – LAS Domicile Meeting: The first USAPA PHX and LAS Pilot domicile meeting was held at the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Building in PHX on Tuesday November 11th. The meeting for members in good standing was conducted by the CLT Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR) as per the USAPA Constitution. Since there are currently no PHX or LAS Pilots who have volunteered to serve as USAPA Domicile Representatives, the USAPA Constitution states that the closest geographical domicile will represent the Pilots. In this case, CLT represents PHX and LAS. The Domicile meeting was open to all members in good standing, as is any union meeting (other than “informational”) where union member business is conducted.

CLT Domicile Chairman Captain Dave XXXXX opened the meeting by welcoming the few members present (EDIT: 2 members there!) and introducing the Union officials who were in attendance. Dave stated that although there will always be differences of opinions, having open dialog between Pilots and Board Representatives is the mandatory first step in producing something beneficial for the entire Pilot group. He affirmed that USAPA stands ready at all times to welcome active participation in all levels of the Union.

Vice Chairman Captain Bill XXXXX then discussed the roots of USAPA and provided a short history of Pilot union representation on both AWA and US Airways properties during the previous decade. He reminded those in attendance that both the former AWA and pre-merger US Airways Pilots acted to remove ALPA off the properties. Bill pointed out that the roots of USAPA were in place long before any merger announcement with AWA and that the inclusion of many of our super senior Pilots, such as CLT Domicile Chairman Captain XXXXXXX, seniority number 1XX, is indicative of that fact. Having Pilots represent the interests of the former America West Pilots at the Board level, or any level within the Union, is what it will take to move the interests of the entire Pilot group forward.

CLT Vice Chairman First Officer Steve XXXXX emphasized mutual respect and courtesy and, most importantly, the need to maintain our professionalism in the workplace.

USAPA President First Officer Stephen Bradford welcomed all the participants and talked about the many inherent advantages for the Pilots as outlined in USAPA’s Constitution. President Bradford focused on the recently announced USAPA Officer elections and the upcoming Domicile Representative elections, of which PHL and PHX will be the first elections conducted. His words were spoken with a sense of pride and accomplishment, as the Union follows its mandate of embracing the true democratic process. He stated the only requirement to run for a USAPA Officer position is that you are a member in good standing, and the best way for all Pilots to be heard is through participation.

President Bradford also informed the group that the first USAPA ballot on issues affecting the Pilots was completed on Monday, November 10. The results of the ballot were favorable, with a yes vote to Constitutional Amendments (which required 2/3rd majority), medical insurance assistance for furloughees (EDIT: but not the 100+ AWA Furloughees, since we had no path for membership prior to the vote) and the conditionally-proposed merger assessment for future mergers. Equally impressive was the level of voter participation; over 70% of the eligible Pilots voted, which was a level of participation much greater than under the previous bargaining agent and is indicative of the continued strong support for USAPA.

USAPA Secretary Treasurer Captain Mark XXXX then briefed the members on the financial status and membership numbers of the Union. The financial standing of the Union is strong; monthly dues revenue is well above the Union’s expenditures, in addition to money in the bank. Any notion that USAPA is financially weak or that total expenditures are difficult to meet are unfounded. Captain XXXX noted that with the former bargaining agent, over 70% of your dues money stayed in Herndon, whereas with USAPA all US Airways Pilots’ dues stays here, working for the US Airways Pilots. Captain XXXX also noted that our Pilots’ dues money is protected from the frivolous expenditures experienced in the past. USAPA’s monetary philosophy, such as conducting Union business at crew hotels (EDIT: but not the PHX/LAS MTG at the Federal Mediation Building), standard contract Pilot per diem rates while doing Union business and no alcohol purchases, all add up to a lean organization that allows all member dues to be put to use where our Pilots benefit the most. Captain XXXX stated that there are currently in excess of 3,400 USAPA Union Members. (EDIT: Not according to USAPA's statement when the votes came out on Nov 10.) Captain XXXX emphasized that members must be dues current by December 15th in order to participate in the upcoming Officer elections.

USAPA Executive Vice President First Officer Gary XXXXX briefed the members on the status of the Union’s infrastructure, including all the items that make a Union functional. The Union’s phone system, computers systems, office space and contracts all have to be managed. The Union basically outsources all services in order to run as efficiently as possible. Gary invited Union members to the USAPA Office and assured them that they would be impressed with what they found. The Union has also employed Sherry XXXX to assist the R&I Committee as a benefits advisor and to establish a Human Resources program for the Union. He stated that USAPA has developed the foundation it requires in order to serve the needs of its Pilots.

Merger Committee Chairman Captain Randy XXXXX then discussed USAPA’s Section 22 Seniority contract position in detail. Captain XXXXX expressed the fact that US Airways is a date-of-hire airline and when you bring two airlines together with dissimilar demographics, Conditions and Restrictions (C&Rs) are required to protect Pilots. Captain XXXXX then initiated a detailed briefing on the C&Rs and added examples so that members were clear on the impact the C&Rs will have on Pilots. Captain XXXXX then noted that Pilots in general and former AWA Pilots in particular, seem unaware of the actual C&Rs and what role they play in the protection of former AWA Pilots.

A discussion ensued about how a lack of dialog concerning the C&Rs contributes to misunderstandings, making Mr. Parker the sole apparent winner. It is interesting to note that during the discussion, President Bradford interjected that it was entirely conceivable that under the C&Rs, First Officer Bradford (who, with a 1986 hire date holds a Captain bid but flies as a First Officer), could easily be raising the gear for the 1997 former AWA Captain present in the room. This exemplifies the value of the C&Rs to the former AWA Pilots and what they mean to all Pilots.
USAPA is concerned that many Pilots are not familiar with what the C&Rs bring to the table. The Merger Committee page on the USAPA web site, which is currently available to all Pilots (members and non-members), includes information regarding the C&Rs, with examples and FAQs. The Communications Committee, along with the Merger Committee, will redouble its efforts in disseminating the C&Rs.

After some short committee briefings from Communications, Pilot 4 Pilot and the Furlough Committee, the meeting adjourned at approximately 1820 local time.

There is one other issue that we would like to report to the Pilots concerning the meeting. Just prior to the meeting, a group of approximately 18 former AWA non-union member Pilots were present and requested to stay at the meeting. USAPA had made it very clear on the meeting invitations that the meeting was only open to members in good standing -- those who pay dues as active Union members. When asked to leave, they drew cameras to shoot pictures of both USAPA Officials and those who remained seated; it was obvious that a planned camera shoot was taking place. After a short display of frustration, non-members vacated the room and when only union members remained, the meeting convened. USAPA wants to make it perfectly clear that the Union wants Pilot participation and dialog, but Union meetings have and always will be reserved for members in good standing. In fact, the overlying theme of the entire meeting was participation and representation. All the speakers welcomed former AWA Pilots to assume leadership positions in the Union when they can do so without fear of reprisals from their fellow Pilots, so that all points of view can be heard and debated. All the speakers stressed that dialog and Union participation are part of the solution.

 

[Carl S.]

"All points of view can be heard"! But to join USAPA you must accept DOH and to be an elected official or appointed at this time, you must take an oath to DOH! The sides are so polarized that only the courts can settle this, but the spin from the East is well beyond a cult!

 

[Fast43]

Doesn't the same group of laws also state that a closed shop employee must pay union dues as a condition of employment? It is my understanding that not all pilots are paying their union dues because they don't agree with the union. Does the union still have to represent people in bad standing?

YES that is correct, they do!!!

 

[cactusboy53]

Does everyone out west still trust and believe in Doug? That man does not care about ex amer west pilots, he looks at you just like the US Air pilots, a liability that takes his profits. If you believe Doug you are crazy!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget, Doug is the same person that said the AWA was looking at financial trouble too (while we were hiring, upgrading 6 year FO's, growing, and getting airplanes).

So, which way do you want it? Grasp at the straw "AWA was in trouble, too." or "If you believe Doug, you are crazy!!!"?? You can't have it both ways, bub.

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

I was going to have a leisurely 'd o uc he' but what do you know. That Bradford guy came by from nowhere quicker than lickity spit, stole my 'do uc he' and shoved that that thing so far in his ass I dont think we'll ever see it again!. Funny thing is he said it was ritefully HIS and he and Semen would first enjoy it then make me pay! What nerve!

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Lemme guess...another 190 jockey. Sadly, your reality is what USAPA tells you that it is and you've accepted it nicely. At some point, you really ought to consider talking to a West guy to hear their side of the story instead of just accepting the spoon fed, USAPA perspective. I know you have to live with those "gentleman" out East, but maybe it would do you some good to hear a "lottery winners" perspective about getting furloughed. Good luck in your career.

Look chief, this has nothing to do with what USAPA tells me. I was an out sider with no vote. I am unbiased since DOH or Nic don't affect me either way. I am junior no matter what. I have spoken with friends of mine from the west and I worked out east. DOH makes since to me because when I am 55 and my company merges with another I don't want to lose seniority. I also think it is ridiculous that a 4.5 year copilot is being furloughed before a 8 month copilot. Who's fault? Doug! Doug makes these choices! The point is I have an opinion and so do you, but we obviously will never agree. I just want everyone, east and west, to recognize our "leader," the man with 3 dui's, the man who has direct control over our lives is the one furloughing all of us and downsizing LAS, not USAPA and not ALPA. We don't have to agree on terms of contract and our union representation, but we should all stand together against the evil rulers we call management that works over on Rio Salado Drive.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Don't forget, Doug is the same person that said the AWA was looking at financial trouble too (while we were hiring, upgrading 6 year FO's, growing, and getting airplanes).

So, which way do you want it? Grasp at the straw "AWA was in trouble, too." or "If you believe Doug, you are crazy!!!"?? You can't have it both ways, bub.

Financial trouble has nothing to do with my point. I never brought up the finances of the now defunct amer west or the old us airways. Neither pilot group had any handle on finances anyways. Amer west pilots didn't take pay cuts to "save us airways," just like us airways pilots didn't do anything to save amer west. If you still trust Doug after what he has done to both sides you are insane. Doug is the person furloughing the 4.5 year copilot before the 8 month copilot from the east, not us airways east pilots and not USAPA. Doug is the one to blame. We need to agree on one thing and that is to fight against Doug and not each other. We can still disagree about seniority, which we all know will be a disagreement no side will budge on. We need to grow up and at least fight the iron curtian over on Rio Salado Drive.

 

[m80drvr]

Look chief, this has nothing to do with what USAPA tells me. I was an out sider with no vote. I am unbiased since DOH or Nic don't affect me either way. I am junior no matter what. I have spoken with friends of mine from the west and I worked out east. DOH makes since to me because when I am 55 and my company merges with another I don't want to lose seniority. I also think it is ridiculous that a 4.5 year copilot is being furloughed before a 8 month copilot. Who's fault? Doug! Doug makes these choices! The point is I have an opinion and so do you, but we obviously will never agree. I just want everyone, east and west, to recognize our "leader," the man with 3 dui's, the man who has direct control over our lives is the one furloughing all of us and downsizing LAS, not USAPA and not ALPA. We don't have to agree on terms of contract and our union representation, but we should all stand together against the evil rulers we call management that works over on Rio Salado Drive.

Hey Idiot.... If you actually knew what was going on you woud realise that USAPA OUR union was just in court fighting WITH the company to keep more senior pilots on the street. Yup DOH only applies if it screwing the west pilots.

Don't get me wrong Doug is a lying a$$whole but a "union" that sells out it's own principles and rules to screw it's own members is a joke. Your "union is fighting to keep more senior pilots on furlough.

Take the assessment for health insurance for the furloughed pilots. Only a member in good standing can get the insurance.......WELLLLLLL their was no vehicle for a west pilot to be a member in good standing by the deadline. It was impossible for the west furloughed pilots to get the same coverage as the east pilots.

I could list a hundred more items like this but you have drank too much east coolaid.

Enjoy your career with usairways......you now work for the worst airline in history and you are a member of the biggest joke of a union.

good luck

Ps if the famed 55 year old pilot was a reverve first officer why should he immediately become a line holding captain at the expense of another younger pilot group. That's fair in your book I guess.

Wait until it happens to you.