USAPA and the Domicile meeting for PHX/LAS

[MK82Man]

The following “announcement” of a Phoenix and Las Vegas Domicile Meeting Notice was sent on USAPA Letterhead to West US Airways Members in Good Standing (dated 3 Nov) and received by some folks on Thursday, 6 Nov for a “short notice” combined domicile meeting on Veteran’s Day, Tuesday, the 11th. IE, 3 business days notice for a domicile meeting.

November 3, 2008

Phoenix and Las Vegas Domicile Meeting Notice

In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and By Laws and the USAPA Union Operating Manual, there will be a Phoenix and Las Vegas Domicile Meeting on November 11th at 1600. The USAPA Constitution and Bylaws provides that the nearest geographic domicile with representation will represent the members of a domicile that is not represented. Charlotte, NC is the nearest domicile to both Phoenix and Las Vegas and therefore those representatives will chair this meeting. All USAPA members in good standing are welcome. This meeting will be held at the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, 4000 North Central Avenue, Suite 2360, Phoenix, Arizona. Per the USAPA C&BL, all members in good standing are welcome.

Agenda
-USAPA Officer Briefings
- Merger Committee Presentation regarding Conditions and Restrictions
- Negotiations Update
- Committee Staffing

Sincerely,

Dave XXXXXXX, Chairman, Bill XXXXXXXX, Vice-Chairman, Steve XXXXXXX, Vice-Chairman


So, here are the questions ….

- Why such short notice? Is this a future claim by USAPA to show how they are fairly representing the West? They haven’t been out West since prior to the Election, IE over 8 months. Sure doesn’t give anyone a chance to plan meeting attendance – since it has been 8 months since our last meeting, shouldn’t we have a little more notice? Why not post a Meeting Notice in the PHX/LAS Crewrooms so that folks are aware of the meeting. Why have the meeting on a Holiday, IE Veteran's Day at 4PM – maybe you didn’t really want anyone to know or to be able to attend.

- Why only members in Good Standing? Since they have prevented us for holding membership … must be voted in by your domicile, now changed to so that the PBR can vote you in (lawsuit driven), how many folks could attend anyway. How about their duty to represent Non-Members as agents of CBA? But you can’t go to the meeting and ask any questions?

- Why is LAS lumped in with PHX? We have our own domicile and are entitled to our own LEC. Maybe USAPA didn’t want to travel to LAS.

- Since when is CLT the “appointed” representatives for PHX/LAS? I’ll have to review those constantly changing C&BL’s to see if indeed CLT is the “appointed” reps for our 1700 pilots. Can’t we govern ourselves? Gosh we used to have 2 LECs and an MEC…


So here is what happened yesterday…

- All non members got kicked out. They checked IDs for everyone who was there. 20-30 AWA guys tried to attend. Only 2, as far as we know, got in.

- Two “rented” PHX cops on stand-by. This was just a union meeting, you know between pilots. What kind of pilot union has to have cops (appearance of use of force at a meeting of its members)? USAPA has a duty to represent all members, even non-members. Excluding folks, with the cops on standby (threat of arrest), is a great way to unite the pilot group and heal the wounds.

- USAPA Leadership attended and the CLT reps were there, plus their lawyer Seham

- USAPA could have had a telecom for the two members who attended, but that would have denied USAPA the appearance of holding a “West Domicile Meeting.” Talk about a waste of funds. I hope East members question the leadership about the cost of this West meeting.

- USAPA conducted a presentation about why date of hire is good for us – what about our “out of seniority Furloughees” ? – yeah Date of Hire is good for us, NOT.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Sounds like a question for USAPA leadership not flighinfo experts. One day I wish for all of us at US Airways to figure things out. East vs. West aside maybe we can all come together and push forward with our careers. Maybe Doug will accept the pay rates submitted by USAPA. I may just be wishful thinking, but we have a great group of pilots(East and West).

 

[becket]

I may just be wishful thinking, but we have a great group of pilots(East and West).

I think the "wishful" part is you thinking you have a "great group of pilots" on the East.

They are the least honorable group of scumbags in the history of organized labor...I have little doubt history will be kind to them.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

I think the "wishful" part is you thinking you have a "great group of pilots" on the East.

They are the least honorable group of scumbags in the history of organized labor...I have little doubt history will be kind to them.

Wow! Classy statement in regards to a group of pilots that disagree wtih you. Can't wait to fly with you when/if we get a combined list.

 

[mynameisjim]

- Two “rented” PHX cops on stand-by. .... USAPA has a duty to represent all members, even non-members. .....

Why do they have a duty to represent non-members?

 

[ground stop]

Wow! Classy statement in regards to a group of pilots that disagree wtih you. Can't wait to fly with you when/if we get a combined list.

are you on furlough?

 

[sleeves]

I think the "wishful" part is you thinking you have a "great group of pilots" on the East.

They are the least honorable group of scumbags in the history of organized labor...I have little doubt history will be kind to them.

I do not have a dog in this fight but the east guys are truly the worst of the worst. What part of binding didn't they understand?

 

[sgmick]

I do not have a dog in this fight but the east guys are truly the worst of the worst. What part of binding didn't they understand?

You dont have a dog in the fight, that is part of the reason YOU dont understand.

Worst of the worst... You make me laugh...

 

[bigtexpilot]

I do not have a dog in this fight but the east guys are truly the worst of the worst. What part of binding didn't they understand?

Keyword is "binding". They don't understand it.

 

[becket]

Wow! Classy statement in regards to a group of pilots that disagree wtih you. Can't wait to fly with you when/if we get a combined list.

That's like saying Hitler "disagreed" with the Jews.

Nice sugar coat but nobody is stupid enough to believe this is about a disagreement. This is about the total abrogation of contracts, and the tyrannical rule of the bigger group. That's it. It's not a debate, it's the larger side trying to destroy the smaller side because of an insane sense of self importance and entitlement.

The Judge will rule soon enough. That still won't fix anything though. This place is too far gone to come back. Hopefully it's a quick death this time and not the slow decades long bleeding that characterizes US Air.

 

[FDJ2]

Why do they have a duty to represent non-members?

Because it's the law.

The right to be the exclusive bargaining agent for pilots at LCC also brings with it the duty to fairly represent all pilots of the bargaining unit whether they are members or not.

 

[BeCareful!]

Hopefully it's a quick death this time and not the slow decades long bleeding that characterizes US Air.

haha....now that sounds like some wishful thinking!

If anything dies it will be the west coast flying. The bean counters will kill it as things tighten up economically. Know history, and you will see the future

As for membership, every rep I've spoken with has said the same thing: you guys all tried to sign up with the understanding that you'd never ever pay dues of any kind....not even what is required for maintenence of the contract.

So, you get what you pay for, I guess.

As far as lowest of the low...yeah, I guess all the CAL scabs and the UAL scabs and the AWA scabs (Ansett Airlines) are great union folks. For your group, the West pilot group with the actual picket line crossing dirty scabs, I guess if it happens below the equator you don't get too worked up about it, eh? Figure you can come back here to the USA and act all bad @ss like you're strong, union guys.

Well, you're weak. You should legitimately join USAPA and make a go of this. Big fence....let's go.

 

[Raoul Duke]

well there was an interesting court case the other day involving the NFLPA (NFL Players Association). A jury awarded a group of dis-affected members $27 million because the association did not negotiate on their behalf. It was a case in San Fran but that is the same court system as PHX and will be a directly controlling case. I think it is a very similar claim as the west pilots are making. USAPA knows they are in trouble and they are grasping at straws to give the appearance of fair representation. For a group of generally good guys (the east pilots) USAPA makes them all look like ******************************s.

 

[Raoul Duke]

got edited, so there is no confusion, USAPA makes them look like: d o u c h e s

 

[mynameisjim]

Because it's the law.

The right to be the exclusive bargaining agent for pilots at LCC also brings with it the duty to fairly represent all pilots of the bargaining unit whether they are members or not.

Doesn't the same group of laws also state that a closed shop employee must pay union dues as a condition of employment? It is my understanding that not all pilots are paying their union dues because they don't agree with the union. Does the union still have to represent people in bad standing?

 

[Deadalus]

haha....now that sounds like some wishful thinking!

If anything dies it will be the west coast flying. The bean counters will kill it as things tighten up economically. Know history, and you will see the future

.

That's exactly the point. In your future no airline will be their to save your @ss again, because everyone knows how they will be treated. I say slow and painfull.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Sounds like a question for USAPA leadership not flighinfo experts. One day I wish for all of us at US Airways to figure things out. East vs. West aside maybe we can all come together and push forward with our careers. Maybe Doug will accept the pay rates submitted by USAPA. I may just be wishful thinking, but we have a great group of pilots(East and West).

Your kidding, right?


PHXFLYR

 

[Bringupthebird]

Yes. The only way the union gets out of it's obligation to represent is to request to have the delinquent non-payer's employment terminated.

But USAPA doesn't even represent fairly the interests of the non-members who are in good standing. Instead the stomp around like children demanding relevance and respect and deserving neither.

The paid-up non-members don't get any sort of access to their so-called reps from Charlotte (members who, by the way are being asked to pay the same as members for other bases while receiving only a portion of their reps time and attention). Do they post the names and addresses of the CLT reps and the chairmen of the commitees on the CLT local? Nope!

Do they allow access to their website (the only source of information concerning USAPA) to paid-up non-members? Nope!

Are they performing their duty to the paid-up non-members by actively negotiating section 6 for the west pilots in parallel with joint negotiations? Nope!

In short, a non-member in good standing receives just as little representation as the one in bad standing, and the CLT member in good standing is going to receive less representation as their reps are forced to deal with PHX (the largest base) and LAS issues.

But somehow I think the CLT pilots know just how little time will be spent on those issues. Right now, less than 8 hours in 8 months.

 

[PHXFLYR]

That's like saying Hitler "disagreed" with the Jews.

Nice sugar coat but nobody is stupid enough to believe this is about a disagreement. This is about the total abrogation of contracts, and the tyrannical rule of the bigger group. That's it. It's not a debate, it's the larger side trying to destroy the smaller side because of an insane sense of self importance and entitlement.

The Judge will rule soon enough. That still won't fix anything though. This place is too far gone to come back. Hopefully it's a quick death this time and not the slow decades long bleeding that characterizes US Air.

Woa,big fella.... I need this place to hang in there for another 14 years . Then it can go tizz up....

PHXFLYR

 

[Turtle21]

..

But USAPA doesn't even represent fairly the interests of the non-members who are in good standing. Instead the stomp around like children ..

You don't say... Like spoiled brats, eh?