USAJet Unionized

[Xfr8dog]

Rumor has it that 80% of the pilots and mechanics have turned in thier union cards saying "yes" they would vote a union in. (This being the UAW) The paperwork has already been filed with the NLRB so it goes to vote in about 4-6 weeks.

For those of you who may not know USAJet operates DA-20's on demand under part 135 and DC-9's under part 121 also on demand. Recently we were approved for passenger ops on 2 DC-9s. I'd like to hear anyone chime in as to what they think a union can do for a company like ours.

I have always been very anti-union just on principle. I have never worked under a union and am just hoping that they dont screw up a great company.

 

[Spencer]

Exactly what "principle" are you referring to when you say you are very anti-union?

 

[pilotyip]

Teamsters Tried

Teamsters tried back in 1997, from what I had heard, I think ALPA got more write ins than the Teamsters got votes, and those combined did not equal the non-votes, alot of Ex Zantopers were not big supporters of the union effort. Nothing is a sure thing, except change, taxes, and death.

 

[GogglesPisano]

[
I have always been very anti-union just on principle. I have never worked under a union and am just hoping that they dont screw up a great company. [/B]

Haven't spent much time in the airline biz, I see.

 

[ExecJetCA]

Disregard Xfr8dog

Disregard Xfr8dog, I heard he is the resident *** guy at USA Jet. Xfr8dog you need to get out of this business and lay off the booze...A$$Hole.

 

[Spencer]

I'd like to make one thing clear. Bad business plans make or break a company, not unions. The company mentioned Zantop and Grand Aire. If you follow their logic that unions make or break the company then unions must be good. UPS, FEDEX, Airborne, Kalitta all have unions and are surviving and Reliant didn't have a union and failed. Kittyhawk went bankrupt but now they are ALPA and out of bankruptcy. The truth is unions force companies to adapt and change the way they treat employees. Poorly run companies will go out of business with or without a union.

 

[Xfr8dog]

Goggles that was pretty vague... i havent been in the industry long since i dont realize that unions are such wonderful things? or ... uh. clarify please?

ExecJetCA... HAHAHA. i didnt realize i'd made an enemy in the business. want to shoot me a PM and tell me who you are? Also what does the "resident *** guy" mean? geez you sound bitter!

I try to start a conversation about the possible pros and cons of a union at a company like USAJet and get no intelligent response (other than from PilotYip and Spencer) hmm. thanks anyway guys... i guess.

 

[goastar]

" I have never worked under a union and am just hoping that they dont screw up a great company."


80% of people don't usually turn in union cards if there is not a perceived problem.

If you change nothing in the operations or pay, it might be good to at least get some scope/ successorship language in the event your company ever decides to merge. You might want talk to an old Challenge air cargo guy what a scope/ successorship clause might have done for them when UPS purchased them and shove them out on the street.

I do believe that in the case of a union the good does out way the bad.

 

[Xfr8dog]

ok, can you tell me what scope/succesorship is? sounds kind of like a board game about mouthwash...

 

[pilotyip]

Union maybe, maybe not

A union is not the answer to every employees concern, if a union is voted in at USA Jet it may or may not be a good deal, look at the posts on this board with pilots complaining about how there union did this to them or did not support them on this issue. I have belonged to two union airlines as stated before and they never did anything for me except take money out of my pay check. Including my last check after the company announced it as going out of business. No help after the lay off in finding another job, no help in finding aditional training to help me get another job. After the shut down, Zantop eleted not to go out of busines and the Teamsters reopened their contract and gave the company so many consessions, that a 1st DA-20 Capt job at USA Jet paid more and had more days off than an Electra Capt in a union company. We have pilots talking about if we get a union we will have every holiday off at home like the office workers, wake up DAL, AA, UL all work on the holidays, senority dictates who gets what days off. When you bid senior F/O to jr Capt you go from good days off to a schedule that you get stuck with becasue it is left over, it was your choice to move seats, not something the company did to you. Look at the posts about ALPA over a Spirit, company ignoring the contract and doing kinda as it pleases, with the fillings against the company building up. Then there is the UAW who got a contract with the big three, no pay increase except lump sum, increase in medical co-pay, a go along to get along approach to keep collecting those dues. Watch out what you ask for, you may get it. In defense of unions 40 years ago they made changes in the workplace, like Medical, vision, dental, these have benefited all union and non-union employees alike. But the glory days are over, the only sector with union growth in the past 30 years in the Gov't sector, where they do not work with real money, they steal it from you with increased taxes, unlike the private sector where you have choice on where you spend your money. There must be a reason union membership is declining in the private sector

 

[Timebuilder]

If you are this ignorant, then maybe you deserve whatever any company rams up your *$#. Educate yourself, or you'll have no one to blame for your problems but yourself.

Here's you chance, Mr. Conroy, give him some education.

I've worked under three unions, one under the RLA. The pros were pay and benefits, along with a structure for promotions. When the company was done with you, the union did nothing.

Paid a lot of dues, though.

I'll probably have to join SAG in the next year. Might be worth it, in pay and benefits. Maybe not.

 

[Xfr8dog]

Exec, Flip...

Oh man.. you two. (Exec and Flip) I post a question/debate starter and i get guys like you...




Disregard Xfr8dog, I heard he is the resident *** guy at USA Jet.
Xfr8dog you need to get out of this business and lay off the booze...A$$Hole.

-ExecJetCA


If you are this ignorant, then maybe you deserve whatever any company rams up your *$#. Educate yourself, or you'll have no one to blame for your problems but yourself. Of course, like everyone else here, I'm sure you'll find someone to point fingers at and say it's their fault.

-Flip Conroy


Do I know you two anonymous posters? Will i ever? Nope! Didn't think so. ExecJetCA STILL hasn't responded to me and i doubt he ever will. Flip... i asked a question in a (humorous?) way, "what's Scope/Successorship"... thats it. Just a question. But you say im ignorant and deserve whats coming to me. Who sounds ignorant here?

And who's pointing fingers? I'm asking questions before this thing goes to a vote... leave your anger and frustration at home if you have nothing useful to add!

 

[Spencer]

While what pilot yip said has some merits he failed to mention the things unions can do for you. Like fair and consistent treatment of ALL pilots, not the ones who are in the good graces of the company. Days off that you can actually plan something on instead of guessing whether or not you'll make it home. Establish payscales that don't change every 3 months. Having seniority actually count for something instead of laying guys off randomly and recalling the ones they want. Not being threatened to be fired at the drop of a hat. The list goes on but you get the idea.

If you think a union is going to get tons of money you'd be mistaken. It will, however, give you some rules you can count on and some much needed consistency in your life.

 

[wingnutt]

casual observer here, not pot stirring, just wondering...

If you think a union is going to get tons of money you'd be mistaken. It will, however, give you some rules you can count on and some much needed consistency in your life.

...but can that really be had in the on-demand world? is there any other on-demand operator that uses a union successfully? my impression thus far is/has been that USA has a pretty decent system down, is this not the case?

 

[Timebuilder]

I received a PM about my post, so I'll put the answer here, so more than one person can learn from it.

The RLA is the Railway Labor Act. It is a group of ideas approved on the federal level that covers some union operations and structures. Most of the railroad unions, like the UTU, BRS, and maybe eight or ten others all fall under this provision. When air transport unions were formed, they based themselves around this successful rail union model, and fall under the same provisions. That's the short explanation. I was a member of the BRS, or Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen, a craft union that maintains signals, switches, grade crossings, and special rail detection equipment, and AFTRA (see below) and also the United Tile, Rubber, and Atomic workers.

SAG is the Screen Actors Guild, which covers acting for film, including commercials that are made on film. AFTRA is the American Federation of Radio and Television Artists, which covers radio and TV where video is the medium instead of "film".

Outside of pay, and having a contract that specifies the behavior of both parties along with a method of airing grievances, there won't be much of a change at USA jet for the average employee. If someone is being harassed, or is on someone's sh*t list, the union will have some effect. It does NOT make your life perfect or hassle free, it doesn't make you rich or make every day you go to work feel a whole lot better. It simply provides a structure for the operation other than the changing whim of management.