USAJet Unionized

[Timebuilder]

If you are this ignorant, then maybe you deserve whatever any company rams up your *$#. Educate yourself, or you'll have no one to blame for your problems but yourself.

Here's you chance, Mr. Conroy, give him some education.

I've worked under three unions, one under the RLA. The pros were pay and benefits, along with a structure for promotions. When the company was done with you, the union did nothing.

Paid a lot of dues, though.

I'll probably have to join SAG in the next year. Might be worth it, in pay and benefits. Maybe not.

 

[Xfr8dog]

Exec, Flip...

Oh man.. you two. (Exec and Flip) I post a question/debate starter and i get guys like you...




Disregard Xfr8dog, I heard he is the resident *** guy at USA Jet.
Xfr8dog you need to get out of this business and lay off the booze...A$$Hole.

-ExecJetCA


If you are this ignorant, then maybe you deserve whatever any company rams up your *$#. Educate yourself, or you'll have no one to blame for your problems but yourself. Of course, like everyone else here, I'm sure you'll find someone to point fingers at and say it's their fault.

-Flip Conroy


Do I know you two anonymous posters? Will i ever? Nope! Didn't think so. ExecJetCA STILL hasn't responded to me and i doubt he ever will. Flip... i asked a question in a (humorous?) way, "what's Scope/Successorship"... thats it. Just a question. But you say im ignorant and deserve whats coming to me. Who sounds ignorant here?

And who's pointing fingers? I'm asking questions before this thing goes to a vote... leave your anger and frustration at home if you have nothing useful to add!

 

[Spencer]

While what pilot yip said has some merits he failed to mention the things unions can do for you. Like fair and consistent treatment of ALL pilots, not the ones who are in the good graces of the company. Days off that you can actually plan something on instead of guessing whether or not you'll make it home. Establish payscales that don't change every 3 months. Having seniority actually count for something instead of laying guys off randomly and recalling the ones they want. Not being threatened to be fired at the drop of a hat. The list goes on but you get the idea.

If you think a union is going to get tons of money you'd be mistaken. It will, however, give you some rules you can count on and some much needed consistency in your life.

 

[wingnutt]

casual observer here, not pot stirring, just wondering...

If you think a union is going to get tons of money you'd be mistaken. It will, however, give you some rules you can count on and some much needed consistency in your life.

...but can that really be had in the on-demand world? is there any other on-demand operator that uses a union successfully? my impression thus far is/has been that USA has a pretty decent system down, is this not the case?

 

[Timebuilder]

I received a PM about my post, so I'll put the answer here, so more than one person can learn from it.

The RLA is the Railway Labor Act. It is a group of ideas approved on the federal level that covers some union operations and structures. Most of the railroad unions, like the UTU, BRS, and maybe eight or ten others all fall under this provision. When air transport unions were formed, they based themselves around this successful rail union model, and fall under the same provisions. That's the short explanation. I was a member of the BRS, or Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen, a craft union that maintains signals, switches, grade crossings, and special rail detection equipment, and AFTRA (see below) and also the United Tile, Rubber, and Atomic workers.

SAG is the Screen Actors Guild, which covers acting for film, including commercials that are made on film. AFTRA is the American Federation of Radio and Television Artists, which covers radio and TV where video is the medium instead of "film".

Outside of pay, and having a contract that specifies the behavior of both parties along with a method of airing grievances, there won't be much of a change at USA jet for the average employee. If someone is being harassed, or is on someone's sh*t list, the union will have some effect. It does NOT make your life perfect or hassle free, it doesn't make you rich or make every day you go to work feel a whole lot better. It simply provides a structure for the operation other than the changing whim of management.

 

[wingnutt]

now theres a comparison...SAG/AFTRA vs. airline unions. the only thing SAG/AFTRA (now one and the same, but i think dues are still seperate) does for us is guarantee the day rate. but then again without paying the dues, you cant get a job within the US borders...hence why so many jobs are being done in Canada, just out of their jurisdiction

 

[Timebuilder]

Actually, there was a vote by SAG a few months back, and they decided, for about the sixth time, to remain a separate, "sister" union to AFTRA. Some of the members feel that SAG is the only place for "real" actors outside of Equity, and that AFTRA is a bunch of "disc jockeys". That's partially true, but not entirely.

Truth be told, SAG does a lot more than dictate the day rate, which is usually the rate for non-principal extras.

There are session fees, residuals, demo rates, and variations in rates for the difference between a wild spot, a regional media buy, or a class A national spot, which might feature James Earl Jones. Then there is the health and welfare payment made by the signatory, and the retirement plan if you do enough work in a year to qualify. In addition, SAG tracks your spot's airings to be certain that you get paid for residuals that run on TV. AFTRA does not do that for radio.

To be sure, a certain amount of work does go to Canada. The cartoon version of "X-Men" features a number of Canadian voice actors, like Venus Terzo (Jean Grey) and Meghan Black (Rogue,cute pic ). These talents work in Vancouver, near where my dad was born. Meghan did a lot of popular Canadian TV (Edgemont, for example). She's a real hard worker, and still in her teens. When she comes down here, and I think she will, she'll join SAG.

A good amount of animation graphics are done in Japan now, but the really high quality shows get voiced in LA just as they always have. Warner Brothers and Hanna-Barbera aren't going to roll over and play dead. The best people are still SAG.

There is plenty of work, in fact the majority of work in the US, that is not under SAG's umbrella. Most SAG actors work in NY, LA, and Chicago. You may see the formation of a Canadian performance union in the coming years.

At any rate, getting back to what we were saying about pilot unions: they can help you, but they are by no means a panacea. If your union is only looking out for the top one third of pilots, then you might be in trouble. It's a matter of by-laws.

 

[Spencer]

Many of the problems at USA Jet come from being an at will employee. In the past guys at USA Jet have voted with their feet. Everytime the company has cut our pay or taken days off from guys people have gone to Spirit etc... Then the company apologizes and says it made a mistake and after a while when no one has left in six months they do something else bad. The cycle continues. Now, instead of leaving and going to Spirit or the majors guys are stuck here and so they are only left with one option to make things better in their life - organize. The company has had many opportunities to make this a great place to work but has always put cost ahead of it's employees.

As for USA Jet being a non-sched that is not entirely true. We have started passenger charters in the DC-9. We have 2 DC-9s online. They want to be an airline but are still stuck in the 135 night freight on demand mentality. It is time for them to step up and act like an airline.

 

[cruxx@9]

I would like to second Spencer. From what I take from the majority of the pro union people is we just want to know what life will be like in 2 months, 6 months, a year or 2. There is NO consistency in the actions by management here. I don't hear anyone complaining about the pay, we knew the pay scale when we hired on, and there is no reason to change it now. The main complaints are days off, not more of them, just getting them. Using the senority system as something more than a list of names on the wall and fairness in disipline. I have not heard yet that the pilots are wanting the holidays off or weekends off or whatever...just a fair and straight system. PilotYip is correct in that no airline gets the holidays off for everyone, that is what the senority system is about. Most people are tired of different rules for different people, deals cut behind closed doors that sort of thing. I don't believe the union is a perfect system and only a fool would. But let's look at the track record of management as a previous post stated. Everytime there is a reason to change the policy they stick to it only as long as they have to. USA Jet is, in my opinion, the best on demand company out there. But they have to decide if they want to be a mom and pop freight dog company or an airline. Not hop between one or the other depending on the day and what meets their mood. I have yet to read anything on here that supports union or does not. That is what xfr8dog wanted to know. He had some valid questions...don't beat him...answer him.

 

[Publishers]

is

They is what they is as they say. Someone said they put cost first, which is probably why they have survived this long.