USAJet Unionized

[cruxx@9]

Publishers,

You are right, there are times to put cost first...successful companies have to do that, there is no argue. But how much does it cost to upgrade through senority? Remember also it COSTS to retrain pilots. You would think that any company would WANT to retain experienced pilots and employees. The common response to anything said here is "you don't like it, leave" followed by a chuckle, "oh that's right, no one else is hiring."

 

[pilotyip]

Just got my flyer

The UAW claims the company will show the pilots silly videos in meetings. The UAW claims they will stop unsafe work conitions, what are they going to do? make us as safe as Grand Air , another union outfit. This is from an orgainzation that said "What is a check airman?" The UAW is not the foundation and source of all aviation safety. The same organization that is telling our pilots, it does not cost the company anything to give the DA-20 pilots more days off, sure it will not cost the company any more in payroll, but how about the cost of lost revenue because we do not have as many crews on the board any given day. How about the company gives the DA-20 pilots 30 days a month off, that would not cost anymore in payroll. It might cut down a bid on revenue needed to support payroll, but that is not a concrern of those who want to collect pilot dues. I have been there and I have paid my dues. And the UAW talks about the company being silly, give me a break.

 

[Spencer]

Sure more days off on the falcon will cost the company money, but respect and honoring days off don't. Not to mention the money it will save the company down the road by not having as much turnover as in the past. I'm sure you'll respond that the turnover has dropped considerably (I saw Healy's graph). It has to do with the industry not the excellent working conditions. (The graph dropped suddenly on 9/11 for some reason.)

On another note. The company has submitted its list of eligible voters. They include the Chief Pilot, Pilot Yip, Director of Training as well as all the corporate pilots including Marty's personal pilots on the Gulfstream. I'll laugh if the vote goes through anyways. That means they will all be part of the union. The company is using these guys as pawns. Sure hope it doesn't backfire on them

 

[pilotyip]

about pilotyip

Where will you find pilotyip's name in any management position? check your GOM, he does not have the power to hire or fire, he sets up interviews, and recommends the final decision is made by the DO, other line pilots besides pilotyip have ben involved in this recommendation process. Pilotyip makes much less than most pilots of his senority. And BTW Spencer, you confirmed the UAW puts out BS when they told pilots it would not cost the company more money to give more days off. That is only one example. The turnover graphs shown by Chris can not be displayed by Ameristar, or Cherry Air, so something must be going right at USA Jet. The turn over prior to 9-11, was a result of over hiring in late 2000 and early 2001. The lay off in May of 01 caused pilots to bail for the wrong reasons, over half of those who bailed called the company and asked if they could get their jobs back, if this is a bad place to work why did they want to come back. Why is the company getting a resume from a former USA Jet pilot who is 474 Capt and would be happy to come back to USA Jet as a DA-20 F/O because of the quality of life? Nothing is sure thing until it is over, some will win some will loose and no one can predict what it will look like after the battle. Then may come the dues, the acessments, special fees, and levies. I am a former union member I have seen them at work. As stated before I have paid my dues I do not want to pay them again. Unions have done nothing for me.

 

[Spencer]

Pilotyip

Well apparently you have taken offense to my posting. I didn't see anything in my post that was derrogatory towards you. I simply stated that you were on the list of eligible voters. As for the comments about the company using pilots as pawns, that was directed towards the guys who weren't aware they were even on the list. ie)Gulfstream pilots etc...

 

[Publishers]

like it

Like it or not, none of the carriers like this have the numbers to be of much worth to any national union. These unions like the Teamsters and UAW are not pilot oriented, look for where they can get money just like any business. To think that they are going to provide any real service for the level of dues they will get from you is crazy.

This is the problem the regionals have with their unions where there is conflict with ALPA. Numbers make the game.

 

[cruxx@9]

The union is already working for us

Do I think the union is the end all? No. Do I think the union will fix all the problems? NO. BUT, I have already seen the union fix some problems. Now, just looking at where I was screwed out of a DC9 skipper position, noone can fix, not even the union. What's done is done. When I came to USA Jet I thought I was working for an airline, not a cleaned up version of Ameristar....that was my mistake. Anyway, things have changed a bit. They have implemented a decent rotation for the board that seems to be working well. All it took was some prior planning on operations part and they spend a little money to move the crews around. Nobody can tell me that would have happened if it wasn't for the rumblings of the UAW. I have heard that unions are dinosaurs, that there are no need for them in the present day work force. Hmmmm, I guess that is not the case eh. Does anyone honestly believe if it wasn't for these developments that we would have the attention of management? They say, "why didn't you come to me earlier so we could have fixed this." You are telling me that they didn't know it was just the wrong thing to do by taking away all days off? That slanting the bidding system against senior pilots was the wrong thing to do? Just overall teatment of their workers?
Granted we are employees, but come on now...they treat thier pets better. So are unions really that far off, is there a reason that they still exist. I never been anti union as my dad is union, but I have never really seen a need for one until the past eight months. Is this what it takes just to "get thier attention."

I am concerned either way of the vote. There are hidden things the UAW is not telling us I'm sure, I don't trust everything they say as fact. There is still the fear of the unknown, of what happens next. But, I am more worried of what the company will do if the vote is turned down. They say that we have thier attention, that these things will not happen in the future, just like years ago, things seemed to change. If it goes down, how long before we go back to the old way of doing things. Everybody seems to be backed into a corner here. I would like to believe a contract would end alot of constant policy change, favoritism that sort of thing and give us something we can count on from year to year. If that is all that comes out of it, it'll make life easier here, knowing what I can count on from day to day and not only dealing with the constant change of this business, which is something I knew when I signed up, but not dealing with the constant change of the company...something I didn't count on when I signed up. Now, is it going to be safer...I don't think that was a big concern before or later...I believe this company is about as safe as a non sked can be.

It would have been nice if things didn't have to get this far due to lack of concern for people among mid level and upper level management. Spencer PM me if you can.

 

[pilotyip]

I don't understand

So few people bid the DC-9 in the summer of 2002, we had to go out on the street and hire DC-9 guys off of the street. If any of the guys senior to the the Junior DC-9 Capt (Mr. P) had bid the DC-9 in the summer 2002 they would all be Captains right now, can some tell me why no one bid it? Cruxx your concerns about the unknown of this process are valid, you should consider giving the company one more year, and if they go back to their old ways, the UAW would be in by a landslide. i.e. Zantop in 1996. Do you still drink beer if someone else is buying?

 

[cruxx@9]

I drink beer no matter who's buying....but for some reason it tastes better when you buy!

 

[cruxx@9]

If any of the guys senior to the the Junior DC-9 Capt (Mr. P) had bid the DC-9 in the summer 2002 they would all be Captains right now, can some tell me why no one bid it?


I did Mr. P's FO IOE in the Falcon. The reason I did'nt bid the DC9 is because the policy changed (something the union will put to an end). I did bid, and was awarded the Mr. P's slot in the DC9, however, after meeting with management, I was pursuaded to postpone going the DC9 because I was told "we will take care of you" if you help us out. I was taken care of all right. When the next bid came out, the rules had changed and most of the other senior pilots did not want to take the pay cut. Not to mention the fact that they where worried about losing their jobs because the last time USA Jet had a pilot reduction, it was based on seat not seniority. The decison by me and most of the senior falcon Captains not to bid the DC9 was based on fear of the company's commitment to loyal employees. Why would I take a huge pay cut to do the same job when a few months earlier the policy was different. Look, the simple fact is, the policies change on a daily basis, we were waiting for the policy to change back to the origional one we were promised when we took the job. I find it very interesting how the policy has again changed with the union threat looming.

Still waiting for that beer.

 

[olderpilot]

usa jet

:mad If you get laid off at USA Jet...you may or may not get your job back...if u kiss butt...probably.. in their opinion if you have a bad attitude forget it. They need a union...if nothing more to guarantee a pay raise, guaranteed days off and a seniority number that means something. Amen

 

[captxxx]

Is it IBT-Airline Division or ALPA?(IBT=Teamsters)

 

[Xfr8dog]

Its UAW.





And i really gotta change that avatar before someone thinks im making a political statement instead of being just being "funny"!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Xfr8dog:

Next to the Pope peaking at porn that is the funniest avatar I've ever seen on these boards.

 

[Xfr8dog]

Glad someone likes it

 

[pilotyip]

Pensions

Check out the thread on LLC Retirment plans. I never saw the word pension in any of the responses. But the UAW is telling the USA Jet pilots to vote us in to represent you and we will get you a pension. Any comment from anyone on how the pension plans worked out at EAL, Braniff, etc.? Any comment from anyone who had a pension at a Bankrupt company and how much they got? Must be pensions are a thing of the past, but then again so is the the UAW. They can draw upon their great knowledge of the Aviation Business to build a blockbuster package for the USA Jet pilots, and thereby setting a precedent to reestablish pensions for everyone. Merry Christmas, isn't America Great. Good seeing your name in print AW, how come I was never contacted for my input. How come FK, DF, CR, JW, RN, MB, GT, HR, etc. etc. were never contacted on input.

 

[Wiggums]

Does USAJet have any kind of retirement right now such as 401k with matching?

 

[nightrider]

You need a union because Ray Mundt and the rest of the scum there are basically a bunch of sorry cocksuckers. You can depend on them to do the wrong thing 98% of the time. They won't do the right things on their own so vote in a union and make them do the right thing.

Before you open your mouth, before going to the majors I flew for USA jet, Grand Aire, and Reliant. So I do know what I am talking about.

Good luck
Nightrider

 

[580driver]

Re: Pensions

Check out the thread on LLC Retirment plans. I never saw the word pension in any of the responses. But the UAW is telling the USA Jet pilots to vote us in to represent you and we will get you a pension. Any comment from anyone on how the pension plans worked out at EAL, Braniff, etc.? Any comment from anyone who had a pension at a Bankrupt company and how much they got? Must be pensions are a thing of the past, but then again so is the the UAW.

Ex-EAL and current Freight Dog here. I supported ALPA all the way in '89 during the strike...ended up with $.50 on the dollar for my pension. And it took 10 years to get that much. Once everyone knew it was the end, a moratorium was put on lump sum distributions, since all who were left wanted their money, and they couldn't liquidate assets of the fund fast enought to pay everyone ..so they doled it out a little at a time. Of course, the share values declined and were worth less as time went on, so you never knew how much was left to come to you. Smart guys who saw the writing on the wall, and left before the bankruptcy, got all of theirs.

I feel Unions are a necessary evil in our country. Wouldn't it be great, if everyone could just act a adults, and we wouldn't need them. Don't fall into the fallacy, that they are all powerful, national brotherhood, etc. Your ultimate "big stick" is still withdrawing your services, and if you so choose, you are really on your own...make sure that's understood before you leave the cockpit. As was mentioned before in this post, I received no help from ALPA in finding another job, retraining, etc. Ended up out of aviation for 11 years. (But at least, they still send me their Magazine!)

Best of luck to you USA guys....you have a tough choice..

 

[cruxx@9]

Holy Wha eh!

Wow! Thanks for all the support everyone! I don't know how many of ya'll have ever been through a union process. This being my first one, I have to tell you it is somewhat stressful. The funny thing is, the more the company tries to intimidate everyone, the less respect the pilots have for them. And those union counselors they brought in, "the goons", have done more to consolidate the pilot ranks than the union ever could have. My hope is that the powers that be at USA Jet realize this is a matter ensuring respect for the pilot force and not a fiscal attack on the company. Doesn't management always say, "it's not personal, just business."

I'm sure most of the management staff have contracts ensuring their compensation packages. Why should we allow them to impose less for those of us who bring the bulk of the revenue into the company?

My hope remains that the negotiating teams maintain a reasonable & productive attitude towards each other. And in so doing, put an end to the adversarial relationship that is presently developing (a preception held mostly by company executives). This should insure a swift and fair conclusion to contract negotiations.

Top management's postion seems to gravitate toward the belief that the pilots want to bankrupt the company. This is neither our goal nor desire. We simply want a forum whereby long-promised and overdue equality of treatment can be addressed.

So, PilotYip are the UAW, or unions in general, things of the past? Obviously not. Granted, when they were formed, by the workers it was to address grossly unfair and inhumane physical treatment of employees. Now, they simply provide a unified voice and collective strength to address the present atmosphere of equally unfair management practices.

If not for the unions, who would be fighting for the workers?

If it weren't for the union stirrings, would our issues even be considered?

I think in your heart of hearts you know the answer to that question...

keep 'em in the green