USAJet Unionized

[olderpilot]

usa jet

:mad If you get laid off at USA Jet...you may or may not get your job back...if u kiss butt...probably.. in their opinion if you have a bad attitude forget it. They need a union...if nothing more to guarantee a pay raise, guaranteed days off and a seniority number that means something. Amen

 

[captxxx]

Is it IBT-Airline Division or ALPA?(IBT=Teamsters)

 

[Xfr8dog]

Its UAW.





And i really gotta change that avatar before someone thinks im making a political statement instead of being just being "funny"!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Xfr8dog:

Next to the Pope peaking at porn that is the funniest avatar I've ever seen on these boards.

 

[Xfr8dog]

Glad someone likes it

 

[pilotyip]

Pensions

Check out the thread on LLC Retirment plans. I never saw the word pension in any of the responses. But the UAW is telling the USA Jet pilots to vote us in to represent you and we will get you a pension. Any comment from anyone on how the pension plans worked out at EAL, Braniff, etc.? Any comment from anyone who had a pension at a Bankrupt company and how much they got? Must be pensions are a thing of the past, but then again so is the the UAW. They can draw upon their great knowledge of the Aviation Business to build a blockbuster package for the USA Jet pilots, and thereby setting a precedent to reestablish pensions for everyone. Merry Christmas, isn't America Great. Good seeing your name in print AW, how come I was never contacted for my input. How come FK, DF, CR, JW, RN, MB, GT, HR, etc. etc. were never contacted on input.

 

[Wiggums]

Does USAJet have any kind of retirement right now such as 401k with matching?

 

[nightrider]

You need a union because Ray Mundt and the rest of the scum there are basically a bunch of sorry cocksuckers. You can depend on them to do the wrong thing 98% of the time. They won't do the right things on their own so vote in a union and make them do the right thing.

Before you open your mouth, before going to the majors I flew for USA jet, Grand Aire, and Reliant. So I do know what I am talking about.

Good luck
Nightrider

 

[580driver]

Re: Pensions

Check out the thread on LLC Retirment plans. I never saw the word pension in any of the responses. But the UAW is telling the USA Jet pilots to vote us in to represent you and we will get you a pension. Any comment from anyone on how the pension plans worked out at EAL, Braniff, etc.? Any comment from anyone who had a pension at a Bankrupt company and how much they got? Must be pensions are a thing of the past, but then again so is the the UAW.

Ex-EAL and current Freight Dog here. I supported ALPA all the way in '89 during the strike...ended up with $.50 on the dollar for my pension. And it took 10 years to get that much. Once everyone knew it was the end, a moratorium was put on lump sum distributions, since all who were left wanted their money, and they couldn't liquidate assets of the fund fast enought to pay everyone ..so they doled it out a little at a time. Of course, the share values declined and were worth less as time went on, so you never knew how much was left to come to you. Smart guys who saw the writing on the wall, and left before the bankruptcy, got all of theirs.

I feel Unions are a necessary evil in our country. Wouldn't it be great, if everyone could just act a adults, and we wouldn't need them. Don't fall into the fallacy, that they are all powerful, national brotherhood, etc. Your ultimate "big stick" is still withdrawing your services, and if you so choose, you are really on your own...make sure that's understood before you leave the cockpit. As was mentioned before in this post, I received no help from ALPA in finding another job, retraining, etc. Ended up out of aviation for 11 years. (But at least, they still send me their Magazine!)

Best of luck to you USA guys....you have a tough choice..

 

[cruxx@9]

Holy Wha eh!

Wow! Thanks for all the support everyone! I don't know how many of ya'll have ever been through a union process. This being my first one, I have to tell you it is somewhat stressful. The funny thing is, the more the company tries to intimidate everyone, the less respect the pilots have for them. And those union counselors they brought in, "the goons", have done more to consolidate the pilot ranks than the union ever could have. My hope is that the powers that be at USA Jet realize this is a matter ensuring respect for the pilot force and not a fiscal attack on the company. Doesn't management always say, "it's not personal, just business."

I'm sure most of the management staff have contracts ensuring their compensation packages. Why should we allow them to impose less for those of us who bring the bulk of the revenue into the company?

My hope remains that the negotiating teams maintain a reasonable & productive attitude towards each other. And in so doing, put an end to the adversarial relationship that is presently developing (a preception held mostly by company executives). This should insure a swift and fair conclusion to contract negotiations.

Top management's postion seems to gravitate toward the belief that the pilots want to bankrupt the company. This is neither our goal nor desire. We simply want a forum whereby long-promised and overdue equality of treatment can be addressed.

So, PilotYip are the UAW, or unions in general, things of the past? Obviously not. Granted, when they were formed, by the workers it was to address grossly unfair and inhumane physical treatment of employees. Now, they simply provide a unified voice and collective strength to address the present atmosphere of equally unfair management practices.

If not for the unions, who would be fighting for the workers?

If it weren't for the union stirrings, would our issues even be considered?

I think in your heart of hearts you know the answer to that question...

keep 'em in the green

 

[pilotyip]

Not of the past

Lets see in 1978 the unions represented 23% of the work force, now they represent about 9%. Not only has percentage gone down, but also absolute mebership, the UAW had been a failure at organizing to regain their membership levels. Just like pension, unionms are thing of the past in most books. THe only place in the labour market that has seen an increase in membership is Gov't employees. When you bargin with a gov't unit you do not pay with real money, you play with tax payers money, and if you need more money to pay for union benefits, you just raise taxes. Unlike a real company that has to compete in the real world. BTW USA Jet does have a 401 K, but not very good one.

 

[pilotyip]

Oh and BTW

Why is it that most of the guys who do not support the union were in a union at some time in the past?, and the guys who support the UAW mostly have never been in a union? Could be unions are not every thing they profess to be? Why is FT former ALPA MEC at EAL not supporting the UAW?

 

[cruxx@9]

Why is it?

Why is it the only time the company seems to address problems with us (or any other group) seems to be when a union is involved?

I wish things were good enough here that we didn't go this route.

Is this the game management wants to play? Vote out the union, things improve for a couple years, then things slip for a couple years, then we bring in another union, they get their sh*t together AGAIN. They cry we didn't know, we can fix things. They spend more money on more goons, then the cycle starts AGAIN.

Or, do we (the pilot force) fix things once and for all. Granted not everyone will be happy with the out come. There are about 80 pilots with about the same amount of different views on what should happen. But hopefully in the end, there will be some consistancy to the pilots lives here. And something we all can live with.

Some of the guys opposed to the union have worked at other union shops and seen that it didn't work there for some reason or another. Some of the other guys opposed to the union are the guys getting favoritism and special deals. Of course they don't want the union because it will make everyone equal. Some of the guys for the union have worked in union shops and saw the good side of union membership.

The issue here is NOT the merits of the union. The issue here is management's inconsistant conduct.

Management has done an excellent job of deflecting the real issues here and spinning it against the UAW. Most of the pilot force can see through that though.

 

[Spencer]

Well said Cruxx@9

It all comes down to creditbility. The UAW has done everything that they have said they would do. The company on the other hand hasn't kept a promise yet, including the ones they made in 1997 to solve these very same issues if the union got voted out.

Who would you beleive?

 

[cruxx@9]

Something to think about...

The thing management wants us to believe, something I would love to believe is that things will change if the union is voted out. Managements battle cry is "if it isn't working in a year, have another vote and bring the union in then."

Like I said, I would love to give them a chance as many I've talked to would. However, this is the gamble we have.

If the union is voted out this time, when will we be in this situation again?

They (management) has already said that they are not interested in any type of contract with the pilots (or any other group) that would hold them to anything that is promised or agreed upon. This includes a non union contract, something that would be in their favor. We don't have the money as a pilot group to hire an attorney to enforce the contract if it is in breach. All it would do is spell out what is expected of them and us. But in reality, it is not binding because of cost. IF they aren't even interested in that, how can we believe a handshake deal?

IF the pilot group votes out the union this time how long will it take to get the union back on property? Who is going to start the process again? Who is going to take on the headaches that a certain individual has taken this time? What union would want to represent us? Would the UAW spend more money in a year to try again?

Remember, we went to the UAW, not the other way around. The UAW didn't exactly jump on our band wagon right away. This organizing attempt costs money that we aren't even contributing yet. This wasn't an overnight event. This took months of planning before any of us even heard of the union representation.

So, it isn't as easy as just voting the union in 12 months from now if we have not seen change by then. We are looking at 12 to 18 months of management having total control over "at will" employees for that peroid of time.

Also remember the contract will not be overnight, it may take years to settle (hopefully not, but it could). By not starting things now and waiting a year or so, we are just pushing that date longer into the future.

Management is gambling on the fact that if the vote is turned down this time, they can change just enough to keep us somewhat satisfied. They are also gambling that if we are not satisfied, no one will start to organize for a few years. Long enough for most of us to be gone by then.

What are YOU gambling on?