USAJet Unionized

[pilotyip]

Not of the past

Lets see in 1978 the unions represented 23% of the work force, now they represent about 9%. Not only has percentage gone down, but also absolute mebership, the UAW had been a failure at organizing to regain their membership levels. Just like pension, unionms are thing of the past in most books. THe only place in the labour market that has seen an increase in membership is Gov't employees. When you bargin with a gov't unit you do not pay with real money, you play with tax payers money, and if you need more money to pay for union benefits, you just raise taxes. Unlike a real company that has to compete in the real world. BTW USA Jet does have a 401 K, but not very good one.

 

[pilotyip]

Oh and BTW

Why is it that most of the guys who do not support the union were in a union at some time in the past?, and the guys who support the UAW mostly have never been in a union? Could be unions are not every thing they profess to be? Why is FT former ALPA MEC at EAL not supporting the UAW?

 

[cruxx@9]

Why is it?

Why is it the only time the company seems to address problems with us (or any other group) seems to be when a union is involved?

I wish things were good enough here that we didn't go this route.

Is this the game management wants to play? Vote out the union, things improve for a couple years, then things slip for a couple years, then we bring in another union, they get their sh*t together AGAIN. They cry we didn't know, we can fix things. They spend more money on more goons, then the cycle starts AGAIN.

Or, do we (the pilot force) fix things once and for all. Granted not everyone will be happy with the out come. There are about 80 pilots with about the same amount of different views on what should happen. But hopefully in the end, there will be some consistancy to the pilots lives here. And something we all can live with.

Some of the guys opposed to the union have worked at other union shops and seen that it didn't work there for some reason or another. Some of the other guys opposed to the union are the guys getting favoritism and special deals. Of course they don't want the union because it will make everyone equal. Some of the guys for the union have worked in union shops and saw the good side of union membership.

The issue here is NOT the merits of the union. The issue here is management's inconsistant conduct.

Management has done an excellent job of deflecting the real issues here and spinning it against the UAW. Most of the pilot force can see through that though.

 

[Spencer]

Well said Cruxx@9

It all comes down to creditbility. The UAW has done everything that they have said they would do. The company on the other hand hasn't kept a promise yet, including the ones they made in 1997 to solve these very same issues if the union got voted out.

Who would you beleive?

 

[cruxx@9]

Something to think about...

The thing management wants us to believe, something I would love to believe is that things will change if the union is voted out. Managements battle cry is "if it isn't working in a year, have another vote and bring the union in then."

Like I said, I would love to give them a chance as many I've talked to would. However, this is the gamble we have.

If the union is voted out this time, when will we be in this situation again?

They (management) has already said that they are not interested in any type of contract with the pilots (or any other group) that would hold them to anything that is promised or agreed upon. This includes a non union contract, something that would be in their favor. We don't have the money as a pilot group to hire an attorney to enforce the contract if it is in breach. All it would do is spell out what is expected of them and us. But in reality, it is not binding because of cost. IF they aren't even interested in that, how can we believe a handshake deal?

IF the pilot group votes out the union this time how long will it take to get the union back on property? Who is going to start the process again? Who is going to take on the headaches that a certain individual has taken this time? What union would want to represent us? Would the UAW spend more money in a year to try again?

Remember, we went to the UAW, not the other way around. The UAW didn't exactly jump on our band wagon right away. This organizing attempt costs money that we aren't even contributing yet. This wasn't an overnight event. This took months of planning before any of us even heard of the union representation.

So, it isn't as easy as just voting the union in 12 months from now if we have not seen change by then. We are looking at 12 to 18 months of management having total control over "at will" employees for that peroid of time.

Also remember the contract will not be overnight, it may take years to settle (hopefully not, but it could). By not starting things now and waiting a year or so, we are just pushing that date longer into the future.

Management is gambling on the fact that if the vote is turned down this time, they can change just enough to keep us somewhat satisfied. They are also gambling that if we are not satisfied, no one will start to organize for a few years. Long enough for most of us to be gone by then.

What are YOU gambling on?

 

[pilotyip]

Get Real

Again talk about misunderstanding, I doubt you were even here in 1997, being such a low time guy, if you had been here that long you would be in the 6500 hr range or more, so you are a new comer. This place is much different that it was in 1997, more pay, more days off, more control over a number aspects of your interface with the company. The company has keep many more promises than you are aware of, you are not the expert on what has gone on and not gone, your blanket statements generate as much misunderstanding as anything anyone else has done.

 

[cruxx@9]

This is about my logbook now?

Not that it matters, but if I wouldn't have lived in the sim for 2 years I'd probably have over 6500 hours....but then you'd say I'd need 7500, if I had that I'd need shuttle landings...that isn't the point I was trying to make. You are the spin doctor of this forum...I gotta give you that!

I was just pointing out a very valid topic to think about. That's all, some food for thought. I don't think I was being too confrontational, just voicing a concern that is on the mind of some of the pilots, as well as mine.

 

[iaflyer]

Improvements

It's possible that Cruxx@9 wasn't at USA Jet in 1997 - I wasn't at USA Jet then either. Only 23% of the current seniority list was here then anyway.

Just because a company's managment is only beating the employees twice a day rather than four times a day doesn't make it a good place to work.

The changes since November are only because of the union organizing effort. Pilots are USA Jet are comparing USA Jet to other places they have buddies working at - places where USA Jet pilots have a shot at getting a job today- Spirit, Air Tran, Jet Blue.

Yes, there have been changes for the better in the years I have been here. PilotYIP has tried hard to make changes, and some have been implemented. Some of the changes that were promised, such as the "cost-neutral pay raise" have not been followed through. (for those who don't understand what I mean by cost-neutral, the premise was that a pilot pay raise would reduce costs in other areas at the company, thus being cost-neutral).

Is the pay raise was truly cost-neutal, why was it cancelled?

I would prefer to have a contract guaranteeing my work rules and pay in writing. Some of what I have right now about my work rules and pay is in writing - but it's all written by the company, and can be changed by the company. Does "All days off cancelled" ring a bell?

iaflyer

 

[Spencer]

I was here in '97 and it is the same issues - Days off, pilots being mistreated and broken promises.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the guys at Ameristar (which gets bashed by Pilotyip all the time) get their days off and I've heard the falcon guys get 9 of them unlike our falcon guys.

Just food for thought.

 

[pilotyip]

count

Falcon drivers get 8 days per 28 day bid period, 13 bid periods per year ='s 104 days off per year, plus a personal day =105 days off per year or 8 and 3/4 days per month. I doubt the Ameristar guys are getting 9 as an avarage. I have heard they had or have some kind of rolling days off, like 10 days off in January. 9 days off in February, and 4 days off in June etc. but their average was about 8 days per month or 3/4 day less than a USA Jet DA-20 driver. Again Spencer get your facts correct, Oh! I forgot there was math involved and you are listening to fuzzy math stories so I can see where the misunderstanding comes from. Anyone care to correct me on Ameristar DA-20 days off.