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UsAirways and EMB-190

fatazz

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US Airways pilots give tentative nod to Embraer 190s

Tuesday October 4, 2005 US Airways pilots, with an eye on JetBlue, reached a tentative agreement with the airline to operate the Embraer 190 as part of mainline service at a rate that will make the jets competitive with the low-cost carrier that launched the 100-seater."We agreed on a pay rate as well as a restriction to fly only as mainline," Jack Stephan, a spokesperson for the US Airways pilots, told ATWOnline. "That one issue was sent out for member ratification with a strong endorsement to ratify the agreement."
The decision was part of an overall transition agreement between the pilot groups at America West and US Airways, both of which are represented by the Air Line Pilots Assn., as well as management, Stephan explained. The US Airways scope clause prohibited the operation of aircraft with more than 70 seats by Regional partners, but at one point the pilots agreed to allow 190 operations at the now-defunct MidAtlantic division although no 190 orders ever were placed, he said. The Embraer 170 flying originally planned for MidAtlantic has been shifted to partner Republic Airways and the aircraft sold to the independent airline.
"I think the world has changed since we first allowed the 190s to be flown at MidAtlantic," said Stephan. "There was permission to fly them outside the mainline. We had a chance to revisit that issue. It became clear that it was in the best interest of our pilot groups that the airplane not be flown anywhere but the mainline." He said the pilots tied the pay scale for the 190 to the size of the aircraft and the revenue it could generate.
"All we had to do was to point to JetBlue. They don't have a separate division," he noted. "If you are talking seat-mile costs, we can give you a competitive rate and let you fly that on the mainline. I think it's an improvement over what we had."
by Sandra Arnoult
 

xjlifer

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Hope the rate is better than the Rate Delta Managment has proposed for their 190's
 

kngarthur

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xjlifer said:
Hope the rate is better than the Rate Delta Managment has proposed for their 190's
They should probably just let Republic do those routes, so they can concentrate on International.
 

CapnVegetto

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Thank God!! Keep the mainline aircraft at mainline!
 

ex j-41

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Think that ALPA has finally realized the huge mistake that they made?

I guess with all the dues they have collected they feel that maybe it is
time they work for the ones that give them their paycheck.
 

LearLove

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yes its good to keep them at mainline, however the agreement also has some snags in it that I come to learn from talking to mainline guys. Some are voting no some are yes. I'm voting yes, but I fully understand where the no guys are comming from.

Also of course voting no doesn't mean the they don't want the 190's at mainline it just means they don't want them under thoes terms. The feeling is around here that it will pass, but like I said there are some deeper issues and I fully understand where some of these guys with 15 or 20+ years are comming from on the no side.
 

General Lee

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kngarthur said:
They should probably just let Republic do those routes, so they can concentrate on International.
What? Go back to your C172. We are flying 100 seaters right now on the old 732s. We won't give that up. Yeah, maybe all domestic flying should be flown by newly graduated UNDies and Empty Nipple grads......

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

avrodriver

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fatazz said:
The Embraer 170 flying originally planned for MidAtlantic has been shifted to partner Republic Airways and the aircraft sold to the independent airline.
MidAtlantic is offically defunct?? Was the final word finally passed on this or is there still an ongoing battle? Fricken robbery..........

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tuna pimp

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xjlifer said:
Hope the rate is better than the Rate Delta Managment has proposed for their 190's
What is DL proposing? How much lower is it than the 737-200?
 

vclean

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kngarthur said:
They should probably just let Republic do those routes, so they can concentrate on International.
Yet another that doesn't see the big picture.
 

viper548

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kngarthur said:
They should probably just let Republic do those routes, so they can concentrate on International.
Go to school junior
 

synchoff

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CapnVegetto said:
Thank God!! Keep the mainline aircraft at mainline!
Uh, if they're going to pay MAINLINE pilots less than current regional rates, what's the point?

Mesa's current top CRJ900 CA payscale beats JetBlue's CA E-190. And the UsAir protocol states that it will be a payscale competitive with JetBlue.
 

Full of LUV

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Is it not obvious????

synchoff said:
Uh, if they're going to pay MAINLINE pilots less than current regional rates, what's the point?

Mesa's current top CRJ900 CA payscale beats JetBlue's CA E-190. And the UsAir protocol states that it will be a payscale competitive with JetBlue.
Well, because at a regional, that is the TOP of the career path, finito, nothing bigger. At the majors it will be the ENTRY point, something that the regionals used to be before everyone started thinking of them as alternate LCC's and career airlines. Pilots willing to work for half wages for a chance to fly shiny jets for the rest of their careers have infiltrated the regionals.
Before, a regional pilot would get their hours and experience and move on to a major, but after infiltration, they have gotten lazy and a sense of entitlement. I remember when regionals were arguing that they were indeed Majors because of their revenue, and thinking, what's the point? You can call Mesa a major airline, but we all know it survives off of the marketing and feed of the real majors, end of sentence!
 

doug_or

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synchoff said:
Mesa's current top CRJ900 CA payscale beats JetBlue's CA E-190. And the UsAir protocol states that it will be a payscale competitive with JetBlue.

Not really, with the OT bonus the jetblue guys get it would be about equal at the 20 year level, and any lower senority the jetblue rates are higher per hour. More to the point, how many 20 year Mesa captains are there?

Plus, what he said ^
 

Stifler's Mom

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synchoff said:
Uh, if they're going to pay MAINLINE pilots less than current regional rates, what's the point?

Mesa's current top CRJ900 CA payscale beats JetBlue's CA E-190. And the UsAir protocol states that it will be a payscale competitive with JetBlue.
They need to be at mainline...period. Mainline pilots have a bigger view of this industry and the drain it is circling versus the majority of the "I wanna 2-year upgrade" regional pilots.
 

synchoff

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First off, if offered a job at JetBlue, I'd go in a heartbeat.

Mesa also has OT, so our a 20yr CA could pull in $150 bucks an hour.

As for a sense of entitlement - - that's EXACTLY the mentality of mainline pilots, and I say F them. Look where it got them.

Regionals are NOT full of "2 year I wanna upgrade in a shinny jet" pilots anymore. They are career airlines, and I'll be damned if I'm going to apologize for fighting for salaries and QOL that come with larger aircrafts. I'm not gonna happily take it up the tailpipe for legacy carriers either, just because their name is on the side of my plane this week.

They want us at the regionals to give it all up for them. For years, our lower wages subsidized their higher wages and fancy comforatable lifestyle's (by providing a heck of a service at a comparatively cheap rate, making majors big $$$ for their pilots to pad their pockets with). Now they're in hock, and they want the regionals to give up planes (for their furloughees to fly), routes, and growth opportunites that they DIDN'T want when times were fat . . . and they're willing to do it at OUR lower wages and QOL.

They're hypocrates, pure and simple. No legacy carrier pilot even PRETENDS to give a damn about regionals . . . and I feel exactly the same about them.
 

Full of LUV

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Career Airlines????

synchoff said:
First off, if offered a job at JetBlue, I'd go in a heartbeat.

Mesa also has OT, so our a 20yr CA could pull in $150 bucks an hour.

As for a sense of entitlement - - that's EXACTLY the mentality of mainline pilots, and I say F them. Look where it got them.

Regionals are NOT full of "2 year I wanna upgrade in a shinny jet" pilots anymore. They are career airlines, and I'll be danged if I'm going to apologize for fighting for salaries and QOL that come with larger aircrafts. I'm not gonna happily take it up the tailpipe for legacy carriers either, just because their name is on the side of my plane this week.

They want us at the regionals to give it all up for them. For years, our lower wages subsidized their higher wages and fancy comforatable lifestyle's (by providing a heck of a service at a comparatively cheap rate, making majors big $$$ for their pilots to pad their pockets with). Now they're in hock, and they want the regionals to give up planes (for their furloughees to fly), routes, and growth opportunites that they DIDN'T want when times were fat . . . and they're willing to do it at OUR lower wages and QOL.

They're hypocrates, pure and simple. No legacy carrier pilot even PRETENDS to give a dang about regionals . . . and I feel exactly the same about them.
How ironic that you call the major airline pilots hypocrites (well sort of) when you claim that the regionals are now "career airlines" in the second sentence that says you would leave for the major "de jeur" ie Jetblue, if offered the opportunity.
So which is it, do you aspire to work for a "major" or be a Mesa Captain with 20 years of service working OT to make $150 an hour that you claim. Hell, thats better than what the JB will be making on the 190, so why go there????? Oh I see, the regionals are good for You while you work there, then when a real job comes by, sayonara! I see!
 

synchoff

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What is a "major"? It used to be defined as airlines who did more than a Billion bucks of business a year . . . .and by that measure, many "regionals" qualify. The regionals are certainly better at turning a regular profit. The line is blurring, so the "real majors" can just kiss by shinny white "cheek" when they presume to tell me how much I can make and what I can fly because they somehow think they're better pilots or some such nonsense.


Mesa's not so bad -- and I'd be content to work here the rest of my flying career. But money's not everything. JetBlue sounds better, because they're not fully of whinners complaining about every little perceived slight from management. And they're non-ALPA. And I'd like to fly an Airbus, which will never happen at Mesa because lovely ALPA will never allow it (for my own good, of course - - how condesending is that -- it's for THEIR own good, and they don't have the balls to come out and say it) Plus, I'd like to wear a blue shirt instead of a white one.

But United, Delta, Northwest . . . no thanks.
 

Stifler's Mom

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synchoff said:
What is a "major"? It used to be defined as airlines who did more than a Billion bucks of business a year . . . .and by that measure, many "regionals" qualify.
All of you dumbsh!ts that like to believe you work for a major because they earned a "Billion Bucks" need to take your sorry asses back to airliners.net.
 
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