USAir East West NIC Award Resolution? Very soon!

[B-atch]

A fool and his money have parted.

A real "Fool" always chooses money above all other things. In the end, money buys NOTHING, if happiness is sacrificed...

 

[B-atch]

From The Merriam-Webster dictionary:

-----------------------------------------------

While the common use of the word refers only to strike-breakers it's obvious the East pilots also fall under definitions 3a and possibly 4.
USAPA was formed for a very un-unionlike reason and the greatest beneficiary of USAPA has been USAirways management. If the shoe fits...

WINDFALL
1
: something (as a tree or fruit) blown down by the wind
2
: an unexpected, unearned, or sudden gain or advantage

 

[Superbird]

WINDFALL
1
: something (as a tree or fruit) blown down by the wind
2
: an unexpected, unearned, or sudden gain or advantage

Which is what the furloughed east pilots hope to achieve against the employed west pilots. Windfall. Great definition.

 

[weasel_lips]

*********************************

 

[TWA Dude]

WINDFALL

Quote from Nicolau Award:
"Yet, it cannot be disputed that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues."

You're right B-atch. You Easties get the WINDFALL of a merger that saved your jobs AND you want your broken careers fixed on the backs of the West pilots. But don't take my word for it -- take the judges' and jury's.

Have you read Judge Silver's ruling yet or do you just take USAPA-Comm's word for it?

 

[B-atch]

Have you read Judge Silver's ruling yet or do you just take USAPA-Comm's word for it?

I have..She made some Strong pointed opinions.... However, based on the 9th COAs decision....Nothing precludes USAPA from abandoning the Nic... And furthermore according to Silver, the Co. can negotiate a joint cba, Nic non-inclusive, as long as there is NO "Collusion".
In essence, she DID give the Co. what they were asking!!
She gave GUIDANCE.. Now whether Doug decides to negotiate will be a true indication of how badly he needs a joint CBA..

 

[becket]

I have..She made some Strong pointed opinions.... However, based on the 9th COAs decision....Nothing precludes USAPA from abandoning the Nic... And furthermore according to Silver, the Co. can negotiate a joint cba, Nic non-inclusive, as long as there is NO "Collusion".
In essence, she DID give the Co. what they were asking!!
She gave GUIDANCE.. Now whether Doug decides to negotiate will be a true indication of how badly he needs a joint CBA..

WRONG!!!! She said she didn't think the West could sue the company simply because they didn't insist upon the Nic. DURING NEGOTIATIONS. Whatever else they may ultimately agree to is subject to liability for both parties...you know, that " dangerous ground" the company is avoiding like the plague?

IOW, the company is just as free as you scabs to hang themselves if they want to. It's a free country.

 

[B-atch]

Listen Beecker, you may believe in the Loch Ness Monster, or magic leprechauns for all I care...The real fact is 7 years have passed, and the Nic is still shelved...
Interpret the Silver ruling however you please...
The FACTS still stand..USAPA is free to negotiate/ratify a joint CBA...And the Nic need not be included. Once the process concludes, the west will be free to sue if they please. The 9th COA, a higher court than Silver, has given USAPA the right to negotiate, even stating that the final product, even if the Nic is not used, may in fact NOT DAMAGE the plaintiffs....

 

[doh]

Congratualions Mam! Wouldn't be awefull if your company let you go? If you say that would never happen everyone on this forum would know you're a liar. Good luck rich lady you must be new in the airoplane thingy biz.

Okay, let me go slow so you can keep up little girl. This is what you said:

Originally Posted by charlie2
3a???????? I work for union wages. 3a??????? You want me to work for ever so slightly better union wages and give up so much....NOT! 3a????

Those "union wages" are lower than every other union's negotiated wages. So they are NOT, in fact, union wages. A 6th year fractional FO makes more than your top A320 captains in total compensation. This is separate from the chance that I will be laid off, or that any of us will be laid off. Of course it could happen, 24% of our pilots are on furlough. If we lay off half the list, I'm gone! And that could happen if we don't see regime change in this election cycle. But that won't change the FACT that you work for less than union scale.

I agree that sacrificing happiness for money is not a good move. But that presupposes that you have a modicum of income to begin with. You don't, and judging by the eastie posts, most of you aren't happy either. Do you girls get it now? Probably not.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Top A320 total compensation is equal to or less than what I make flying a business jet. If that is your definition of union wages...there is no hope for you whatsoever.

Now,now, there's no reason to hurt folks feelings here. The folks who worked to provide the contracts that were some of the highest paying in the industry retired and left the airline to a bunch of kids with no appreciation for what went into building it. They gave away that which they never earned because they had no idea of it's true value. They put their careers into a graveyard spiral and once they woke up to the reality of their actions, they decided to recover at the expense of the west simply because they had a majority.

So they blamed ALPA (like adolescents who can't accept blame and responsibility for themselves) and now they sit in their handful of widebody jets that pay regional wages and look for someone else to blame so they can self-talk themselves into believing it's not their fault.

They don't want you throwing the truth in their face. Everytime they look at a Delta 767 or A330 they know what it pays and yet they stand by their defense of... well,nothing really. They haven't measurably hastened their upgrades by their actions. But eventually the truth about what listening to a handful of USAPA loudmouths cost them will sink in.

Don't try to make them feel bad. They've got plenty of that ahead of them.

 

[TWA Dude]

Nothing precludes USAPA from abandoning the Nic...

That's true, but it's like saying nothing precludes you from going home and beating your wife. Do it and there are consequences you'd best be aware of and prepared for.

In essence, she DID give the Co. what they were asking!!
She gave GUIDANCE..

First, we both know the company needs no guidance. Dug is just enjoying the fruits of delay and the courts enable him. Just like USAPA.
Second, in an indirect way she did indeed give the company guidance. Funny thing is USAPA (and you) seem not to understand it. Dug won't negotiate seniority unless he has no fear of a DFR suit AND INJUNCTION -- and history has shown Leonidas has a very good chance of obtaining an injunction. So right now your wet-dream seniority list is still as dead in the water as it's been since Judge Wake imposed his injunction. Might wanna tame your elation until Dug has had his final say.

 

[B-atch]

unless he has no fear of a DFR suit AND INJUNCTION -- and history has shown Leonidas has a very good chance of obtaining an injunction. So right now your wet-dream seniority list is still as dead in the water as it's been since Judge Wake imposed his injunction. Might wanna tame your elation until Dug has had his final say.

You guys keep referring to the Wake process as a a win for AOL. Wake was B-slapped by the 9th. He overstepped his courts jurisdiction by trying a case that was NOT RIPE!! Nothing but a HOLLOW victory for Leonidas...
All these threats of suits and injunctions will only seal your fate...Stay tuned to be disappointed..

 

[Superbird]

You guys keep referring to the Wake process as a a win for AOL. Wake was B-slapped by the 9th. He overstepped his courts jurisdiction by trying a case that was NOT RIPE!! Nothing but a HOLLOW victory for Leonidas...
All these threats of suits and injunctions will only seal your fate...Stay tuned to be disappointed..

Not worried. You may want to improve your reading comprehension regarding what the message is in the transcripts. You have no options, you can make things better than the Nic; otherwise you're on "dangerous grounds" and according to the company, it's ripe. The may appeal, the 9th could reverse their "ripeness" ruling, how will it all play out? Stay tuned.


How's that loa93 treatin' ya B- atch?

 

[B-atch]

Not worried. You may want to improve your reading comprehension regarding what the message is in the transcripts. You have no options, you can make things better than the Nic; otherwise you're on "dangerous grounds" and according to the company, it's ripe. The may appeal, the 9th could reverse their "ripeness" ruling, how will it all play out? Stay tuned.


How's that loa93 treatin' ya B- atch?

Well so far I'm projected to move up 190#s next year...And I am now a SOLID block holder...Hows your STAGNATION working out for Ya!!

 

[Superbird]

Well so far I'm projected to move up 190#s next year...And I am now a SOLID block holder...Hows your STAGNATION working out for Ya!!

190 numbers. You'll be a block holder on the e190. What does that pay? Sign me up! Dangerous Ground, repeat it to yourself, dangerous ground ~Silver

 

[B-atch]

Listen Bird..Its not what Silver said, its what she "DIDN'T" say that matters in this case. We shall see. Besides the NDA expires in a few days. I have a feeling that PHX might not like the outcome..Just saying...

 

[B-atch]

That's true, but it's like saying nothing precludes you from going home and beating your wife. Do it and there are consequences.

Bad analogy..There are laws that preclude one from doing such harm. DFR is a tough case to prove. Specially when a union provides C&Rs to protect ALL its members from unreasonable advancements at the detriment of others.

 

[TWA Dude]

You guys keep referring to the Wake process as a a win for AOL.

It was. You keep thinking having the 9th overturn it on ripeness alone means it's like it never happened. The company and Judge Silver know different. Every subsequent judge who looks at this will know all about the Wake trail and its jury verdict. You can't escape the fact that it's now officially in writing that USAPA was created to evade the Nicolau list which is NOT a legitimate union purpose.

Wake was B-slapped by the 9th. He overstepped his courts jurisdiction by trying a case that was NOT RIPE!!

Well, now I can see at least one reason why you're having so much trouble understanding Silver's ruling: you know darn little about the court process. Having a verdict overturned because of a different interpretation of ripeness is not the same as overstepping.

In fact, here's some information you may not know about DFR case law.
In October, 2001, the APA revealed the combined AA/TWA seniority list and fences, known as Supplement CC. That seniority list didn't come into effect until Single Carrier Status was implemented in April, 2002. A group of TWA pilots filed a suit against the APA (along with ALPA, AA, and TWA, Llc.) the summer of 2002. The three defendants AA, TWA, Llc, and APA were all dismissed from the suit due to expiration of the six-month statute of limitations. The judge determined the statutory date was October and not the following April. That determination was subsequently upheld on appeal. So here you have two different cases with completely different ideas on ripeness. The 9th contradicts the other case which is why there was a chance the SCOTUS might've looked at it.

Nothing but a HOLLOW victory for Leonidas...

I'm so glad you think that.

All these threats of suits and injunctions will only seal your fate..

They're not threats, they're predictions...

 

[Deadalus]

I have..She made some Strong pointed opinions.... However, based on the 9th COAs decision....Nothing precludes USAPA from abandoning the Nic... And furthermore according to Silver, the Co. can negotiate a joint cba, Nic non-inclusive, as long as there is NO "Collusion".
In essence, she DID give the Co. what they were asking!!
She gave GUIDANCE.. Now whether Doug decides to negotiate will be a true indication of how badly he needs a joint CBA..

What planet are you on? You think Parker is going to help you steal west pilots seniority and make US Airways liable? I'm going to take a guess and say that Parker is smarter than you easties. Of course the average rock is smarter than you guys. Probably higher paid too

 

[Turtle21]

The USAPA Scabs have been trying to hide under the "wide range of reasonablness" since inception. A jury shot them down after 90 minutes of deliberation....

.

You are a hoot..

The phrase "wide range of reasonableness" is the words of the SCOTUS as quoted by the 9th circuit, the court that threw our the findings of the jury that was hamstrung by Judge Wake who forced a biased decision. Not only did Wake get embarrassed for manipulating the jury, he was completely dismissed for using his courtroom to interfere in negotiations between the company and the union.

You pretend that "wide range of reasonableness" is an age old strategy of USAPA but the reality is it is a NEW gift of guidance from the SCOTUS (and confirmed by Silver) that USAPA and the company wouldn't even have accept for the $2M that Leospanker spent!