USAIR Capt denies JS to SWA commuter!

[get2flyin]

Post the name. If the guy has the balls to stand up to a jumpseater and tell him he can't ride, let him stand up to his fellow crew members who call him on it. What can the jumpseat committee do to a Captain who is a prick and refuses to allow anyone to enjoy a benefit we all sacrificed something for? Nothing. Only the pressure of his/her peers is likely change that moronic attitude.

It's the that company agrees to let other pilots ride as guest in the back of the airplane. Without a doubt it's good form to check in the with Captain, introduce yourself, and ASK to ride along. Why should the pilots care who is in back as long as they meet the standards set by the company (within reason or course, ala the infamous Minneapolis zealots)? However, as much as it pisses me off when the seat in question is in the cockpit, it's the captains discretion. PERIOD. If it's a seat in the back that's open, different story.

 

[Guitar rocker]

You forgot the exclamation point on your last sentence.

It's enough to make Dave Mustaine cry.....again.

-Metallisqwkvfr

Good ole David Mustaine.......14 X in rehab and 15th was a charm for him. Last I saw on TV was that he is clean........for now anyway. Rock on David!

 

[Frap]

If it's a seat in the back that's open, different story.

How is it a different story? It's the Boss's seat regardless of where it is in the airplane.

 

[get2flyin]

How is it a different story? It's the Boss's seat regardless of where it is in the airplane.

Wow. If that's the case, better hope the Boss isn't homophobic, racist, a women hater, etc. Otherwise, being able to throw anyone off for any reason without any accountability could put the company in a real tough spot.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Wow. If that's the case, better hope the Boss isn't homophobic, racist, a women hater, etc. Otherwise, being able to throw anyone off for any reason without any accountability could put the company in a real tough spot.

Even if you are riding in the back, you are riding via jumpseat priviledges so in that case, if the capt. doesn't want you on, it's his/her call. If you are a non rev, it's a different story.

 

[eskimopilot]

Pretty soon, management is going to take back the jump seat and tell everyone to screw themselves. You think commuting to work is bad now....just wait!

In the end, management owns the seats...and don't be surprised to find them exercising their authority one day. Ask any Delta pilot...they remember when they couldn't even offer a ride.

It's coming if this keeps up, you watch.

At my Airline the JS is a contractual right. It was bought and paid for by us. The JS belongs to the Captain pure and simple.
Barring a BK filing the JS would need to be negotiated away. Good luck with that.
Maybe at other Non-Union carriers your theory might apply.

 

[dooork]

Post the name. If the guy has the balls to stand up to a jumpseater and tell him he can't ride, let him stand up to his fellow crew members who call him on it. What can the jumpseat committee do to a Captain who is a prick and refuses to allow anyone to enjoy a benefit we all sacrificed something for? Nothing. Only the pressure of his/her peers is likely change that moronic attitude.

It's the that company agrees to let other pilots ride as guest in the back of the airplane. Without a doubt it's good form to check in the with Captain, introduce yourself, and ASK to ride along. Why should the pilots care who is in back as long as they meet the standards set by the company (within reason or course, ala the infamous Minneapolis zealots)? However, as much as it pisses me off when the seat in question is in the cockpit, it's the captains discretion. PERIOD. If it's a seat in the back that's open, different story.

No, it is not a different story if you are using the jump seat privlage to get that seat in the back.

 

[airdog757]

Jump seat is a negotiated item....management cannot just "take it away".
Its the Capts. seat period! Hell I'm starting to think there are an awfully lot of pu**ies flying around out there.................

Airdog.......................out

 

[Frap]

Wow. If that's the case, better hope the Boss isn't homophobic, racist, a women hater, etc. Otherwise, being able to throw anyone off for any reason without any accountability could put the company in a real tough spot.

It's doubtful that any pilot would be open about having any or all of those biases. If he/she was, he/she wouldn't be long for the airline world (or most other worlds for that matter)--just take a look at who is in the back of the airplane.

Now referencing the original post, airlinepilot was upset about being denied a jumpseat. That, by itself, warrants no call to his j/s coordinator. However, the Captain did openly single out SWA pilots and that could be grounds for a phone call--if nothing else but to preserve a reciprocal agreement.

But this question for me remains: Did airlinepilot take a seat in the back w/o the Captain's approval?

 

[igneousy2]

Not so fast capt. megadeth

Not using authority correctly or misuing it is what weakens real authority because then others have to get involved to make sure that the Capt knows how to correctly apply his authority. Additionally....this was not just a case of the an actual JS in the cockpit...it was allowing commuters in the back where there were open seats. Misure of authority is one reason we have so much oversight....because there is always that 10%.......that needs it.

I agree with airline pilot. It is this abuse of power that undermines captains authority more than anything else. Everyone agrees that the Captain needs the ultimate power when it comes to the safety of the flight, when we start expanding our scope outside of TRUE safety-of-flight issues it makes people question ALL of us (outwardly or inwardly) everytime we make a decision. It's the 10% that abuse there power that make life so difficult for the rest of us. When we start trying to make every little issue a "safety of flight" issue the phrase looses it's meaning.

When I was on my first day of IOE with my current airline, the instructor denied someone the jumpseat (1W) - I didn't think it was necessary but I didn't feel it was inappropriate. He went up and talked to the guy personally. We would have taken the guy in the back.

If having a SWA pilot, or scab, or express pilot on your cockpit jumpseat is truly a distraction for you - then by all means deny the jumpseat. Short of clear policy violations however, (show up in shorts straight from the gym, not on jumpseat list, etc.) I think it is pretty tough to justify denial of someone who is going to sit in the back. If you have a seat in the back, many captains won't even bother to give your ID more than a quick glance if they look at it at all.

Later

 

[capt. megadeth]

A captain doesn't need to justify denial. It's just like letting someone ride in your car. You don't have to let a guest in. The captain's jumpseat is his/hers. It's a priviledge and you are a guest of the captain if he/she allows you on.

Later

 

[PCL_128]

A captain doesn't need to justify denial. It's just like letting someone ride in your car. You don't have to let a guest in. The captain's jumpseat is his/hers. It's a priviledge and you are a guest of the captain if he/she allows you on.

Later

Exactly.

 

[igneousy2]

A captain doesn't need to justify denial. It's just like letting someone ride in your car. You don't have to let a guest in. The captain's jumpseat is his/hers. It's a priviledge and you are a guest of the captain if he/she allows you on.

Later

This is absolutely true, however, if a neighbor asks you for a ride to somewhere that you are already going and you tell them no, then they are going to be pissed, and you better not be asking them for any favors anytime soon. You have a right to deny your neighbor a ride, your neighbor has a right to be pissed at you.

Yes - the captain has a right to deny the jumpseat to anyone, but to expect that they not be subject to scrutiny from peers is ridicules.

later

 

[pipejockey]

This guy is obviously the rare exception, if the PIT-PHL Usair commuters find out what his name is they'll probably throw him a blanket party. Southwest helps many commuters get to PHL and back.

Well don't you think southworst owes those pilots a ride since the routes belonged to USAir until they were undercut in typical southworst fashion?

 

[FlyinGuy]

Pipe...I did not realize that this biz was on a first come first serve basis. If that is the case, can you tell me where to drop off my Pan Am app?

 

[pianoman]

Well don't you think southworst owes those pilots a ride since the routes belonged to USAir until they were undercut in typical southworst fashion?

If you mean typical by earning a hell of a lot more as a 737 pilot at Southwest than at USAir, then yes. And no I have no dog in this fight.

 

[slaquer5]

Well don't you think southworst owes those pilots a ride since the routes belonged to USAir until they were undercut in typical southworst fashion?

Bitter little man stop kicking your dog.

 

[LearLove]

Last Friday I was informed by the agent at BWI that the 757 Capt had informed him he didn't want any Southwest pilots in his Jumpseat. The agent told me this as he informed me not to worry because he had a seat in the back (he thought the Capt meant he didn't want them on the flight deck). However after going onboard to say hello and giving the lead FA my ID she entered the flight deck and just behind her was the agent with the final paperwork. I overheard the Capt giving the agent hell and telling him he had usurped his powers as a capt in allowing a JS. The agent came back out and told me to take a seat in the back. I assumed he was relaying this from the Capt. Today I returned to BWI and talked to the agent. He informed me the Capt didn't want any SWA people on his aircraft period. I am posting this not to flame USAIR. They have always been great host. I would like any USAIR commuters who read this to have a little conversation with this Capt(email, letters, phone call, etc) about his past and future actions. I am not posting his name here but will be glad to supply it if you contact me direct via email here.

I was in BWI yesterday and asked 2 agents (one male one female) working my flight about this. Both said they either knew nothing about it or it is untrue. Now of course either of them may not be the agents involved but BWI doesn't have that many agents these days (compared to pre 9/11) so I may/do question the validity of this whole tread.

 

[weasel_lips]

Found this on airlinepilotcentral.com.
It spells it out pretty clearly. Frankly, that SWA person that started this thread pretty much did everything one should NOT do.



http://airlinepilotcentral.com/reso.../jumpseating:_got_etiquette?_20060707118.html

Jumpseating is a professional courtesy among airline pilots, and one of the best benefits of being a pilot. It is used to commute to and from work and for leisure travel.

The captain is the final authority as to who rides and is not to be challenged for any reason. If denied a jumpseat, say "thanks anyway" and try a different flight.

A growing number of airlines have been approved to use the Cockpit Access Security System (CASS) to identify crewmembers and will let them sit in their cockpit if the flight is full. Airlines that have not been CASS approved will let you ride in the passenger cabin only if there is an empty passenger seat. To sit in the cockpit, you must be properly dressed (business casual), and present your airline ID and passport to the gate agent who will verify your identity and employment. Know your own airline's code too, as this must also be input into the CASS system. Some airlines will allow multiple, or "unlimited," jumpseaters, while some only allow the amount of jumpseaters equal to the number of jumpseats in the cockpit.

Presently you may not sit in the cockpit of an airline on international flights. You may only obtain a seat in the passenger cabin. Some airlines will give you a first or business class seat, and some won't. Keep in mind that most airlines who allow jumpseating internationally require that you check-in 75 to 90 minutes prior to departure in order to satisfy TSA requirements.

If you have a question or a problem with jumpseating around the system, contact your own airline's jumpseat coordinator. Be prepared with detailed information such as the date, time, airport, gate, name(s), etc.

Common courtesy is a must while jumpseating. Ask the gate agent when they would like you to board. Upon reaching the airplane, introduce yourself to the lead flight attendant and ask if you may ask the captain for a ride. Never bypass asking the captain, even if the agent gave you a boarding pass with a seat assignment. And don't forget to introduce yourself to the first officer and relief officer (if app.) as well.

If sitting in the cockpit, comply with sterile cockpit rules and offer to help out (monitoring ATC, scanning for traffic, passing beverages, etc). Lastly, give the captain and first officer thanks for the jumpseat ride.

Always be the consummate professional while jumpseating. It is one of the most valuable career benefits we have.

by Brigitte Lakah
UPS 757/767 Captain

 

[Spectre]

Assumed he was relaying this from the Captain?? Uh, what??

I hope I'm mis-interpreting your post (it's certainly possible), but did you really do the Captain end-around and take a seat w/o introducing yourself and asking for a ride? It is indeed HIS jumpseat to give, be it in the front or the back--not the gate agent's.

And it doesn't appear that the Boss even talked to you, so you can't complain to your j/s committee about disrespectful treatment in front of family, employees or passengers. In fact, if he hadn't verbally singled out WN guys, I don't believe you would have any recourse at all.

Look, I'm all for helping to get as many guys home as possible. Just be respectful of the fact that it's the Captain's jumpseat (toolbag status notwithstanding) and only the Captain's and he does not have to give it to anybody.

Actually, I don't think any Captain "owns" a jumpseat. Seats on an airplane belong to the airline. The Captain IS responsible to adhere to his/her company's jumpseat policy. For example, the Captain should make sure the employee is appropriately dressed and he/she is able to assist flight attendants in an emergency if they are riding on a cabin jumpseat.

It is also the Captain's responsibility to deny a jumpseat if aircraft performance (ie. weight and balance) is out of limit for the flight. A good example is when alternate fuel is required. This should be communicated to the jumpseater. If it looks close on the numbers, I usually tell the F/A's to count kids to reduce our weight and we end up taking the jumpseater anyway.

Another new policy we have is we can no longer accept offline jumpseaters in the cockpit if there is one seat open in either the cabin or cabin jumpseat. If the airplane is completely full, then we can accept offline jumpseaters (CASS approved) into the cockpit. Again, the Captain may have had a reason other than he hates WN pilots to deny the cockpit jumpseat.

Lastly, don't confuse jumpseat with a cabin seat in the back. Our gate agents are cleared to allow offline employees a seat if there is one available. At our company, it is NOT required for the Captain to see this employee who has been assigned a regular cabin seat. Since his or her credentials have already been checked by our gate agents, they can just grab a seat. It's a good policy. If I had to see every employee (JetBlue or offline) who was riding on us out of SLC-SFO last week, we'd been 30 minutes late pushing back (121 customers plus 32 employees travelling standby).