USA Today -- Airline Employment

[Publishers]

There are number of good articles in USA Today about airline employment, losses at major carrier, American cutbacks, and ATA.

 

[needsumluv]

Airline workers make backup plans for future jobs
By Barbara De Lollis and Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY
Brian Jansen hopes his longtime employer, US Airways, can pull out of bankruptcy-court protection again. But just in case, he has taken out a little insurance policy on his future: a second job.
The 41-year-old airplane cleaner in Charlotte moonlights as a FedEx package deliverer. He has to work twice as long to make the same money — about $45,000 a year — that he earned before US Airways cut his pay. But at least he knows he has a job, with health insurance, that he can fall back on if his airline falls apart in bankruptcy proceedings.

The six old warhorses of the airline industry — American, United, Delta, Northwest, Continental and US Airways — are undergoing radical transformations as their customers flock to low-cost carriers such as Southwest and JetBlue. Since 2000, their last profitable year, the airlines once known as the Big Six have shed 109,000 jobs, cut nearly a quarter of their seats and chopped workers' pay and benefits in a desperate attempt to stem losses of $28 billion over the past 31/2 years.

It has hardly helped. Two carriers, United and US Airways, are operating in bankruptcy protection, and others could follow soon with more losses expected. A glamorous industry that once provided secure, sought-after jobs is evaporating, leaving behind heartache, uncertainty and downsized expectations.

Jansen is one of many U.S. airline workers who are taking second jobs, launching side businesses or heading back to school. They're hedging against the economic turmoil gripping their industry. Their first love may be aviation, but they say they now need to be realistic about their futures. (Related profiles: Airline workers branch out to make ends meet)

"I thought it would be a means to an end until US Air got back on its feet," Jansen says of his delivery job. "But now, going through a second bankruptcy, it's beginning to look like that might be where I have to retire from."

Delta Air Lines mechanic Greg Schalk, 43, of Atlanta and his two brothers, Chuck and Glenn, who are mechanics at American Airlines and a major international carrier, are also thinking about the future. All of the brothers are supplementing their incomes outside aviation; one also returned to college.

"I can't count on the airline industry anymore," Schalk says. He recently earned his real estate license to join his wife, Cheryl, a longtime agent, when he's not in the hangar.

American Airlines, the world's largest, said Wednesday that it needs another round of deep cuts to survive. Even before the announcement, pilots union chief Ralph Hunter advised members lacking seniority to think about bolting.

"If they have viable alternatives now that may disappear, they should seriously consider leaving," Hunter said Monday in a message to pilots.

Historically, unionized airline workers tended to stay at one carrier until retirement. It's still common to find people with 30 or more years with their airline. Switching made no sense under union rules. It meant forgoing the perks that seniority earns: fatter paychecks, better schedules and vacation time, generous pensions and job protection.

US Airways flight attendants Randy and Lina Brooks hope to continue flying until retirement. But if they can't, they plan to turn interests — such as 18th-century war re-enacting and interior decorating — into income. In the past, Randy Brooks, 49, has consulted on documentaries and films, such as Mel Gibson's 2000 movie, The Patriot. They say more than half of their friends are considering new careers.

"There's no security in aviation right now," says Lina Brooks, 57.

Shrinking payrolls

But the grim reality of the industry's losses — $5 billion expected this year — and the push to get more work from fewer people for less pay are prompting workers in peak earning years to abandon hope of an airport retirement party. "Anybody who has not been thinking about their future has probably been hiding in a hole," says Richard Chaifetz, CEO of ComPsych, a Chicago counseling provider facing a rising tide of unhappy airline workers.

Payrolls at the Big Six have been steadily shrinking, reflecting the growing market share of discount airlines, where costs of labor and operations are much lower. Employment at the Big Six stands at about 332,000 people, down 25% from 2000. More layoffs are expected as struggling airlines shed airplanes, lengthen work days and outsource jobs.

How many more jobs may disappear depends on hard-to-predict factors such as fuel prices, says Michael Allen of industry consulting firm Back Aviation Solutions. Oil prices in the mid-$50 range per barrel are wreaking havoc on airlines' turnaround plans, which assumed prices in the $40s, he says.

Once offering the best-paying jobs in the industry, most of the old-line airlines have been seeking — or making — significant pay cuts to bring costs in line with the discounters'.

Last week, a bankruptcy judge gave US Airways permission to impose emergency pay cuts of 21% while acknowledging that the cuts may lead to home foreclosures and personal bankruptcies. That follows two rounds of pay concessions by workers during an earlier US Airways bankruptcy filing. In that bankruptcy reorganization, the company replaced the pilots' traditional pension plan with a less-generous plan that the company still thinks is too rich.

Meanwhile, US Airways' management continues to press labor for permanent cuts when its court authority for the emergency cuts expires. Sharon Levine, a lawyer for the mechanics union, told the court that the proposed cuts would drag her members' onetime $50,000 pay to $20,000. Daniel Akins, a consultant for the flight attendants union, said the cuts would bring flight attendant wages to 1982 levels and make them 22% lower than average pay at low-cost carriers.

Pensions at risk

United, American and Delta have also cut wages, though to a lesser extent. Northwest is seeking a first round of cuts. On Tuesday, Continental CEO Gordon Bethune said for the first time that the airline is considering asking for concessions.

The carriers in bankruptcy protection are also threatening pensions. United and US Airways have already skipped pension fund payments and signaled intent to freeze or terminate plans. If either goes ahead, pressure builds on competitors to follow.

If carriers eliminate traditional pensions, they would be taken over by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the government agency that insures private traditional pensions. The PBGC caps yearly payments to workers who retire at 65 at about $44,000. Pilots would collect less than $29,000 — because they retire at 60 — a fraction of the $110,000 that some senior pilots now expect from their traditional plans.

United flight attendant Dale Cassady of Arlington, Va., doesn't expect she would lose a large percentage of her pension. Any cut would hurt, she says.

"Every penny that's taken away from me is a meal," says Cassady, who sold her United stock for $228 after the airline filed Chapter 11 nearly two years ago. At the peak, her stock had been worth $40,000.

In the past when a big airline such as Pan Am, Braniff or Eastern shut down, other airlines were healthy enough to absorb many of their workers. But if one goes out of business now, moving to another big carrier would be impossible.

"I'm 55. I really can't go to another airline and start over again in the lifestyle of a 20-year-old. I don't have the stamina," says Cassady, who has flown for United for 31 years under nine CEOs.

Making this period tougher than past cycles:

•Record furloughs. Few workers furloughed after the 9/11 attacks have been recalled. The Air Line Pilots Association says fewer than 28% of its 10,750 members furloughed since 9/11 have been recalled. If US Airways or another big carrier shuts down, the workers seeking a job with another big carrier would get in a long line of workers awaiting recall.

•Older workers. The first wave of workers let go after 9/11 were mostly younger. They had little seniority and worked at lower pay rates. Now, for instance, US Airways' average flight attendant has 19 years on the job, nearly three times the tenure of the average private-sector worker in the USA.

The people who have held on tend to have higher expectations and greater financial commitments. These experienced workers are paying for braces, college and homes. Some will retire soon.

•Fewer high-paying jobs. It's going to be a lot harder to make $300,000 a year flying an airplane, as the most veteran pilots flying international routes on jumbo jets can do today. At discounters such as Southwest, which is adding planes and continuing to hire, starting pilots make about $45,000. They top out at about $200,000.

Across the board, salaries and benefits are falling. US Airways just reduced its average salary to $47,000 from about $60,000. That's less than all of the other big airlines and even some discounters.

The biggest opportunities are at regional carriers and at discounters, where pay is lower but benefits can be greater. Newer airlines pay less. At JetBlue, which launched in 2000, the most veteran pilots make about $120,000 a year.

The changes at the Big Six also affect those working at the commuter airlines, traditionally springboards to the big leagues. Pilots make $20,000 to $100,000 at the commuters. In the past, young pilots justified taking the low salaries by thinking about their next

 

[pilotyip]

What is wrong with $120K per year?

I have never seen it and live pretty well on less than that. I would have been very happy to get that wage and fly an airplane at the same time.

 

[schafjet]

Pilotyip,

You can think that, but don't say it out loud!! Remember you never earn what you deserve, you earn what you negotiate. I know times are tough, but you have to look to the future, so don't completely sell yourself out. We still need to try and save this career and not make it into just a job. I hope you know what I mean. Make concessions to save what we have, but let's not lose everything in the process. We are not going to save these airlines by working for free. Their problems run deeper than just labor and payroll. Good luck to all.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"I have never seen it and live pretty well on less than that. I would have been very happy to get that wage and fly an airplane at the same time."

Dude,
You must live in the middle of Nebraska not in Chicago. I work 2 jobs, my fiancee 2 jobs, no kids, cars old but paid off, 1000 square foot 50+ year old home.....yes, we save a little off the $100,000 we made last year but it is not a lot of money these days.

Do you think there is an executive out there telling his buddy..."man, I'd be perfectly happy if I got $1 million severance, why are you complaining that you are only getting $3 million" I THINK NOT! WTF is wrong with some of you people?

 

[CaptSeth]

Well, if you married me instead, you could more than double that number. Until I go on the unemployment line. Then you can support my expensive hobbies and strange habits.

Read your PM's, once in a while. Hope all is well...

S

 

[capt. megadeth]

"Well, if you married me instead, you could more than double that number. Until I go on the unemployment line. Then you can support my expensive hobbies and strange habits."


But then I would be married to a pilot....and that is a no no....
Oh wait, my fiancee is a pilot

 

[Clyde]

I have never seen it and live pretty well on less than that. I would have been very happy to get that wage and fly an airplane at the same time.

And with that attitude, that is a big reason the industry is in the shape it's in. The "I'll fly this airplane for any wage any work rule" attitude has taken this from a profession to a vocation.

$120,000/yr is a great wage for any old job right out of high school doing menial work. But, in this industry, you make what you're worth. You bust your a$$, you should get what you think you deserve. And, that means negotiating for it.

I think it's good to live below your means, and I'm not saying $120,000/yr is bad, but where does it stop. With this mentality, pilots of the future are going to be saying the same thing about a $40,000/yr wage on a 777.

 

[Publishers]

right

If you can get $120,000 a year job doing menial work right out of high school, you should be writing a how to book about it.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I have never seen it and live pretty well on less than that. I would have been very happy to get that wage and fly an airplane at the same time.

I tend to agree, especially if you left the military and never took a bonus... I put in 11 years in the Air Force and separated making about $70,000-- Now I'm pulling in about $130000 at 3 years of seniority minus stock options and profit sharing. But the best part of it all-- NO ADDITIONAL DUTIES!!!

 

[SWA/FO]

What you guys born with a silver spoon in your mouth? Everybody talks about "saving the industry" but in reality what if its as simple as being happy? When SWAPA gets a new contract for me.. I don't think, wow! what a great contract for my industry. I simply think "what can buy with my new pay raise". I worry about myself.

You guys sound like spoiled little brats trying to "save the industry" yourself. That is a tall task... I would just worry about yourself. If pilotyip would be happy making 120,000 then let him be happy. Stop this save the industry crap and worry about yourself.

 

[RiddleMan80]

I don't care about the money. I'm in it because I love to fly. If I top out at 60 grand a year flying an RJ my whole life, then so be it. I just want to be part of this industry.

 

[pilotyip]

Misplaced sense of importance

Clyde, something about the high school guy making $120K as menial work does not make sense. Who is to judge what a man does for a living, what is menial and what is not? A story told before, my brother-in-law, HS grad, one year auto mechanic trade school, makes over $200K per, runs his own muffler shop. Do we brand him a looser because he works in a muffler shop. Incidentally he lives in a neighborhood with Auto Company execs, sends his kids to private schools, and takes lots of vacations. Is that menial?

 

[Clyde]

Clyde, something about the high school guy making $120K as menial work does not make sense. Who is to judge what a man does for a living, what is menial and what is not? A story told before, my brother-in-law, HS grad, one year auto mechanic trade school, makes over $200K per, runs his own muffler shop. Do we brand him a looser because he works in a muffler shop. Incidentally he lives in a neighborhood with Auto Company execs, sends his kids to private schools, and takes lots of vacations. Is that menial?

I guess I should have been more specific. First of all, nothing in my post degrades any type of job. In a hypothetical situation, say someone went from HS grad right into a job which pays 120K/yr. No additional training or schooling. Just show up and work. Well, that would be a very good deal.

Now, look at a professional pilot. Costs of going to school, building time flight instructing, flying junk equipment, and living on Ramen noodles for years all at low wages until finally getting to a major. Dues paid monetarily put aside, the costs of getting to the airlines is tremendous in terms of time, committment, and sacrifice. To just settle for 120K is not good. If the airline can afford to pay more, it should. With your attitude, that 120K is going to gradually go down. Am I greedy? Yes, but who isn't. I think my time and sacrifice getting here is worth a lot more than 120,000/year. And by the way, when I quote 120K, I don't mean as a fairly junior f/o. That's good money right now. However, I want and expect (providing the company is healthy) to be making more than that as a senior captain someday. But, according to your logic, that's fine, even if more is available.

Regarding your brother-in-law. First of all, he no doubt paid his dues to get where he is. I highly doubt he would have paid them to just settle for any old wage. Second, he learned a skill to become a mechanic, which meant he had to have some training. This is IN ADDITION to graduating HS. Third, you're not telling the whole story by calling him a mechanic. If he runs his own shop, it is more correct to call him a businessman. I would even go so far to call him an entrepenuer. I would also add this: mechanics make good money, but rarely wil they see 100K/yr. Maybe a few, but not without working a lot of overtime. Your brother-in-law is one of the very few exceptions, and mostly because he owns and runs the business as opposed to working for someone else.

 

[secks]

I have never seen it and live pretty well on less than that. I would have been very happy to get that wage and fly an airplane at the same time.

D@mn straight. If you're earning 6 figures in an extremely competitive field, doing something relatively enjoyable, you've got no room to complain.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

so making 100K in a competitive field is "doing real good" these days??

great. the future is here.

 

[secks]

Now, look at a professional pilot. Costs of going to school, building time flight instructing, flying junk equipment, and living on Ramen noodles for years all at low wages until finally getting to a major. Dues paid monetarily put aside, the costs of getting to the airlines is tremendous in terms of time, committment, and sacrifice. To just settle for 120K is not good. If the airline can afford to pay more, it should. With your attitude, that 120K is going to gradually go down. Am I greedy? Yes, but who isn't. I think my time and sacrifice getting here is worth a lot more than 120,000/year. And by the way, when I quote 120K, I don't mean as a fairly junior f/o. That's good money right now. However, I want and expect (providing the company is healthy) to be making more than that as a senior captain someday. But, according to your logic, that's fine, even if more is available.

The whole "paying your dues" thing is completely irrelevant when it comes to labor pricing. You may feel that you're worth more than $120k because you ate crap for awhile, but the market doesn't see it that way. Your value is derived solely from supply and demand. Who out there is hiring pilots? How many pilots are as qualified as you? Those are the questions you should be asking yourself when pricing your labor. Nobody cares what you went through to get where you are, no offense.

When it comes to "everyone being greedy", speak for yourself. Not everyone out there believes in bending their company over just to line their own pockets. Sure, your employer may be able to afford tripling your wage, but that money could be spent better elsewhere .. investing in more aircraft, advertising, hiring seasoned logistics staff/managers, etc.

 

[secks]

so making 100K in a competitive field is "doing real good" these days??

great. the future is here.

Yeah, it is. It's not often that you get paid 6 figures to do something that thousands of others are willing/qualified (legally speaking) to do at half or a third of that. Think about it.

 

[AAflyer]

Yeah, it is. It's not often that you get paid 6 figures to do something that thousands of others are willing/qualified (legally speaking) to do at half or a third of that. Think about it.

But this is why an 18 year ERJ captain at expressjet makes $80 an hour, and the same year captain on the CRJ at Comair makes $100.

As for pilots wanting to do my job at 1/3 the pay I don't think about, I see it!.

Now, how about bringing the topic full circle and calling me overpaid !


AA

 

[Clyde]

The whole "paying your dues" thing is completely irrelevant when it comes to labor pricing. You may feel that you're worth more than $120k because you ate crap for awhile, but the market doesn't see it that way. Your value is derived solely from supply and demand. Who out there is hiring pilots? How many pilots are as qualified as you? Those are the questions you should be asking yourself when pricing your labor. Nobody cares what you went through to get where you are, no offense.

When it comes to "everyone being greedy", speak for yourself. Not everyone out there believes in bending their company over just to line their own pockets. Sure, your employer may be able to afford tripling your wage, but that money could be spent better elsewhere .. investing in more aircraft, advertising, hiring seasoned logistics staff/managers, etc.

Obviously, you have no concept of paying your dues. You also missed the whole point. I don't believe in selling the candy store to make an extra buck. However, if the company is healthy and able to pay the wage, than they should pay it. Why sell yourself short?

 

[secks]

Obviously, you have no concept of paying your dues. You also missed the whole point. I don't believe in selling the candy store to make an extra buck. However, if the company is healthy and able to pay the wage, than they should pay it. Why sell yourself short?

I understand exactly what you mean by "paying your dues". I just don't think that should factor into how much a company pays you.

Why sell yourself short? Put another way, why not expect your company to pay you the maximum amount possible? Like I said, the company is interested in making money, not necessarily making you a happy camper. Put yourself in the shoes of a CEO .. do you spend $150 million to boost your employees salaries 10% beyond an already high level, or do you invest the money into capital? If you're in business to make money, I think we all know what the answer is. If the employees are truly worth that extra 10%, in order to compete with other labor consumers, you will have to match their demands. However, in the world of unions, the demands of the labor group may be (and generally are) out of synch with their true market value.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Forget it.

 

[VMA214]

"Yeah, it is. It's not often that you get paid 6 figures to do something that thousands of others are willing/qualified (legally speaking) to do at half or a third of that. Think about it."

Boys... You only need read this quote to understand that these are the people who will bring this "job" to the level AND pay of a Greyhound bus driver. The "problem" is that airplanes today are so automated and system redundant that 99.9% of the time a Greyhound bus driver will be able to do the job. Unfortunately, the traveling public is all too ready and willing to bet their lives on that .1%
On the bright side though...the airlines would start to get their moneys worth from all those p1ss tests...

 

[Double Shot]

But this is why an 18 year ERJ captain at expressjet makes $80 an hour, and the same year captain on the CRJ at Comair makes $100.

As for pilots wanting to do my job at 1/3 the pay I don't think about, I see it!.

Now, how about bringing the topic full circle and calling me overpaid !




You are forgetting the red circle pilots at ExpressJet...And they make more then $80 dollars an hour.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I can't believe what I am reading!


120K is accpetable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotyip
I have never seen it and live pretty well on less than that. I would have been very happy to get that wage and fly an airplane at the same time.

D@mn straight. If you're earning 6 figures in an extremely competitive field, doing something relatively enjoyable, you've got no room to complain.

​

As a pilot negotiator how can I take this to the table? Management will lock right on to this and claim it as MAX pay. So if you have a 18 year longevity scale 120k would be it. Now think about starting pay.....

You guys are true professionals......

 

[Dinger]

How much do you think a brain surgeon should make? Would you go to the one who bids the lowest just so he can get the job?

Professional pilots/airline pilots operate in a "specialized" field. Pretty soon, this crap about $40,000 a year being acceptable pay will drive away most true professionals. Then you really do have a problem getting more than your average bus driver for a pilot.

I remember when I had low time, I thought along those lines......what I wouldn't do to get in a jet.......those **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** greedy (more experienced) pilots!

Bottom line............don't play limbo with compensation issues. Don't rent yourself out as the lowest bidder. Concessions are one thing, but the day I settle for a half-ass wage is the day the CEO's give some concessions of their own.

 

[secks]

How much do you think a brain surgeon should make? Would you go to the one who bids the lowest just so he can get the job?

Bottom line............don't play limbo with compensation issues. Don't rent yourself out as the lowest bidder. Concessions are one thing, but the day I settle for a half-ass wage is the day the CEO's give some concessions of their own.

The market dictates what a brain surgeon makes. And guess what, they pretty much write their own ticket due to high demand for surgeons and very short supply.

You're not going to settle for a half-ass wage? Are you just going to sit on your hands if and when you are furloughed, turning down perfectly fine jobs that simply don't pay as much as you think you're worth? Doubt it. You'll take the best job you can get (which will probably be much closer to your true market value). You show me someone who "refuses to settle for a low wage" and I'll show you someone who did just that when climbing the ranks or trying to put food on the table after a furlough.

I can't believe what I am reading!


As a pilot negotiator how can I take this to the table? Management will lock right on to this and claim it as MAX pay. So if you have a 18 year longevity scale 120k would be it. Now think about starting pay.....



You guys are true professionals......

Well let's just say that as a "professional" concessions negotiator, the truth is not your best friend. Your job is not to tell the truth .. it is to do whatever is necessary to barter for the best concessions possible. I guess that's true professionalism today.

Boys... You only need read this quote to understand that these are the people who will bring this "job" to the level AND pay of a Greyhound bus driver. The "problem" is that airplanes today are so automated and system redundant that 99.9% of the time a Greyhound bus driver will be able to do the job. Unfortunately, the traveling public is all too ready and willing to bet their lives on that .1%
On the bright side though...the airlines would start to get their moneys worth from all those p1ss tests...

No, I'm the type of person who has no sympathy for some guy complaining about earning six figures in a field where competition is so fierce that you've got grown men willing to earn poverty-level wages in order to enter the field. The problem with your "betting lives on the .1%" argument is that it logically requires you to pay pilots based on the price of a person's life. I hope that most people are reasonable enough to see that basing wages on the value of a life is rediculous.

As an aside, you are implicitly insulting people who earn less than you. You essentially assume that they are less professional because they earn less money. Pretty arrogant, don't you think? Who says that a pilot earning $90k flying a 767 can't be just as professional and competent as some old fart making $200k?

 

[Dinger]

I am on furlough, so is my wife.

 

[Clyde]

I understand exactly what you mean by "paying your dues". I just don't think that should factor into how much a company pays you.

Why sell yourself short? Put another way, why not expect your company to pay you the maximum amount possible? Like I said, the company is interested in making money, not necessarily making you a happy camper. Put yourself in the shoes of a CEO .. do you spend $150 million to boost your employees salaries 10% beyond an already high level, or do you invest the money into capital? If you're in business to make money, I think we all know what the answer is. If the employees are truly worth that extra 10%, in order to compete with other labor consumers, you will have to match their demands. However, in the world of unions, the demands of the labor group may be (and generally are) out of synch with their true market value.

First of all, if I were in the shoes of a CEO, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Second, if your company offered to double your salary, what would you do? What if they wanted to take 1/3 of it away from you? Would you agree to the latter because your company is in the business of making money? And, the assumption here is that the company is in a position to pay more. Yes, if the company is in dire financial straits, by all means it is understandable to save money. But, if it is financially sound and CAN afford to pay more, what is wrong with expecting a little more in your paycheck?

I can't put a dollar amount on my sacrifices I put in over the years, but I will say it's a lot. Considering what I put up with, I'm not going to sell out, especially if the money is there.

It sounds like you could care less about your worth, and that's fine. We are all entitled to our own opinions. It also sounds like you are not part of a labor union, or if you are, you are not there by choice. These regioal airlines out there have the capapbility to pay more, they just choose not too. If the attitudes changed, this would be a better respected, well compensated industry.

BTW, when the trucking industry drives the railroads into bankruptcy, don't come crying to me. It's because they are working for far less and being more efficient than trains. But of course, I'm sure you'll understand.

 

[Clyde]

The market dictates what a brain surgeon makes. And guess what, they pretty much write their own ticket due to high demand for surgeons and very short supply.

You're not going to settle for a half-ass wage? Are you just going to sit on your hands if and when you are furloughed, turning down perfectly fine jobs that simply don't pay as much as you think you're worth? Doubt it. You'll take the best job you can get (which will probably be much closer to your true market value). You show me someone who "refuses to settle for a low wage" and I'll show you someone who did just that when climbing the ranks or trying to put food on the table after a furlough.


Well let's just say that as a "professional" concessions negotiator, the truth is not your best friend. Your job is not to tell the truth .. it is to do whatever is necessary to barter for the best concessions possible. I guess that's true professionalism today.


No, I'm the type of person who has no sympathy for some guy complaining about earning six figures in a field where competition is so fierce that you've got grown men willing to earn poverty-level wages in order to enter the field. The problem with your "betting lives on the .1%" argument is that it logically requires you to pay pilots based on the price of a person's life. I hope that most people are reasonable enough to see that basing wages on the value of a life is rediculous.

As an aside, you are implicitly insulting people who earn less than you. You essentially assume that they are less professional because they earn less money. Pretty arrogant, don't you think? Who says that a pilot earning $90k flying a 767 can't be just as professional and competent as some old fart making $200k?

What's insulting is people like you who think that guys like me just walked into a job like this. Yes, I make over $90K flying a 767, but don't you think for one minute that it was handed to me on a silver platter.

The problem is people like yourself who are unmotivated and too lazy to bust your ball$ to EARN something like this. Your only recourse is to insult those who have made it. And yes, by reading your above posts, I believe this is a valid statement.

Now, it appears you operate locomotives. The trucking industry is kicking the pants off of the railroad industry because it is more efficient. The drivers are paid far less than what they can be making, and working very long hours. I.E., they are efficient. When your job goes bye-bye, PM me. I'm a nice guy and could probably get you a job loading trailers. You would only be making 8 or 9 dollars an hour, but I know will understand. The company is in the business of earning a profit, not looking out for your best interests.