USA Today -- Airline Employment

[Gulfstream 200]

so making 100K in a competitive field is "doing real good" these days??

great. the future is here.

 

[secks]

Now, look at a professional pilot. Costs of going to school, building time flight instructing, flying junk equipment, and living on Ramen noodles for years all at low wages until finally getting to a major. Dues paid monetarily put aside, the costs of getting to the airlines is tremendous in terms of time, committment, and sacrifice. To just settle for 120K is not good. If the airline can afford to pay more, it should. With your attitude, that 120K is going to gradually go down. Am I greedy? Yes, but who isn't. I think my time and sacrifice getting here is worth a lot more than 120,000/year. And by the way, when I quote 120K, I don't mean as a fairly junior f/o. That's good money right now. However, I want and expect (providing the company is healthy) to be making more than that as a senior captain someday. But, according to your logic, that's fine, even if more is available.

The whole "paying your dues" thing is completely irrelevant when it comes to labor pricing. You may feel that you're worth more than $120k because you ate crap for awhile, but the market doesn't see it that way. Your value is derived solely from supply and demand. Who out there is hiring pilots? How many pilots are as qualified as you? Those are the questions you should be asking yourself when pricing your labor. Nobody cares what you went through to get where you are, no offense.

When it comes to "everyone being greedy", speak for yourself. Not everyone out there believes in bending their company over just to line their own pockets. Sure, your employer may be able to afford tripling your wage, but that money could be spent better elsewhere .. investing in more aircraft, advertising, hiring seasoned logistics staff/managers, etc.

 

[secks]

so making 100K in a competitive field is "doing real good" these days??

great. the future is here.

Yeah, it is. It's not often that you get paid 6 figures to do something that thousands of others are willing/qualified (legally speaking) to do at half or a third of that. Think about it.

 

[AAflyer]

Yeah, it is. It's not often that you get paid 6 figures to do something that thousands of others are willing/qualified (legally speaking) to do at half or a third of that. Think about it.

But this is why an 18 year ERJ captain at expressjet makes $80 an hour, and the same year captain on the CRJ at Comair makes $100.

As for pilots wanting to do my job at 1/3 the pay I don't think about, I see it!.

Now, how about bringing the topic full circle and calling me overpaid !


AA

 

[Clyde]

The whole "paying your dues" thing is completely irrelevant when it comes to labor pricing. You may feel that you're worth more than $120k because you ate crap for awhile, but the market doesn't see it that way. Your value is derived solely from supply and demand. Who out there is hiring pilots? How many pilots are as qualified as you? Those are the questions you should be asking yourself when pricing your labor. Nobody cares what you went through to get where you are, no offense.

When it comes to "everyone being greedy", speak for yourself. Not everyone out there believes in bending their company over just to line their own pockets. Sure, your employer may be able to afford tripling your wage, but that money could be spent better elsewhere .. investing in more aircraft, advertising, hiring seasoned logistics staff/managers, etc.

Obviously, you have no concept of paying your dues. You also missed the whole point. I don't believe in selling the candy store to make an extra buck. However, if the company is healthy and able to pay the wage, than they should pay it. Why sell yourself short?

 

[secks]

Obviously, you have no concept of paying your dues. You also missed the whole point. I don't believe in selling the candy store to make an extra buck. However, if the company is healthy and able to pay the wage, than they should pay it. Why sell yourself short?

I understand exactly what you mean by "paying your dues". I just don't think that should factor into how much a company pays you.

Why sell yourself short? Put another way, why not expect your company to pay you the maximum amount possible? Like I said, the company is interested in making money, not necessarily making you a happy camper. Put yourself in the shoes of a CEO .. do you spend $150 million to boost your employees salaries 10% beyond an already high level, or do you invest the money into capital? If you're in business to make money, I think we all know what the answer is. If the employees are truly worth that extra 10%, in order to compete with other labor consumers, you will have to match their demands. However, in the world of unions, the demands of the labor group may be (and generally are) out of synch with their true market value.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Forget it.

 

[VMA214]

"Yeah, it is. It's not often that you get paid 6 figures to do something that thousands of others are willing/qualified (legally speaking) to do at half or a third of that. Think about it."

Boys... You only need read this quote to understand that these are the people who will bring this "job" to the level AND pay of a Greyhound bus driver. The "problem" is that airplanes today are so automated and system redundant that 99.9% of the time a Greyhound bus driver will be able to do the job. Unfortunately, the traveling public is all too ready and willing to bet their lives on that .1%
On the bright side though...the airlines would start to get their moneys worth from all those p1ss tests...

 

[Double Shot]

But this is why an 18 year ERJ captain at expressjet makes $80 an hour, and the same year captain on the CRJ at Comair makes $100.

As for pilots wanting to do my job at 1/3 the pay I don't think about, I see it!.

Now, how about bringing the topic full circle and calling me overpaid !




You are forgetting the red circle pilots at ExpressJet...And they make more then $80 dollars an hour.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I can't believe what I am reading!


120K is accpetable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotyip
I have never seen it and live pretty well on less than that. I would have been very happy to get that wage and fly an airplane at the same time.

D@mn straight. If you're earning 6 figures in an extremely competitive field, doing something relatively enjoyable, you've got no room to complain.

​

As a pilot negotiator how can I take this to the table? Management will lock right on to this and claim it as MAX pay. So if you have a 18 year longevity scale 120k would be it. Now think about starting pay.....

You guys are true professionals......

 

[Dinger]

How much do you think a brain surgeon should make? Would you go to the one who bids the lowest just so he can get the job?

Professional pilots/airline pilots operate in a "specialized" field. Pretty soon, this crap about $40,000 a year being acceptable pay will drive away most true professionals. Then you really do have a problem getting more than your average bus driver for a pilot.

I remember when I had low time, I thought along those lines......what I wouldn't do to get in a jet.......those **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** greedy (more experienced) pilots!

Bottom line............don't play limbo with compensation issues. Don't rent yourself out as the lowest bidder. Concessions are one thing, but the day I settle for a half-ass wage is the day the CEO's give some concessions of their own.

 

[secks]

How much do you think a brain surgeon should make? Would you go to the one who bids the lowest just so he can get the job?

Bottom line............don't play limbo with compensation issues. Don't rent yourself out as the lowest bidder. Concessions are one thing, but the day I settle for a half-ass wage is the day the CEO's give some concessions of their own.

The market dictates what a brain surgeon makes. And guess what, they pretty much write their own ticket due to high demand for surgeons and very short supply.

You're not going to settle for a half-ass wage? Are you just going to sit on your hands if and when you are furloughed, turning down perfectly fine jobs that simply don't pay as much as you think you're worth? Doubt it. You'll take the best job you can get (which will probably be much closer to your true market value). You show me someone who "refuses to settle for a low wage" and I'll show you someone who did just that when climbing the ranks or trying to put food on the table after a furlough.

I can't believe what I am reading!


As a pilot negotiator how can I take this to the table? Management will lock right on to this and claim it as MAX pay. So if you have a 18 year longevity scale 120k would be it. Now think about starting pay.....



You guys are true professionals......

Well let's just say that as a "professional" concessions negotiator, the truth is not your best friend. Your job is not to tell the truth .. it is to do whatever is necessary to barter for the best concessions possible. I guess that's true professionalism today.

Boys... You only need read this quote to understand that these are the people who will bring this "job" to the level AND pay of a Greyhound bus driver. The "problem" is that airplanes today are so automated and system redundant that 99.9% of the time a Greyhound bus driver will be able to do the job. Unfortunately, the traveling public is all too ready and willing to bet their lives on that .1%
On the bright side though...the airlines would start to get their moneys worth from all those p1ss tests...

No, I'm the type of person who has no sympathy for some guy complaining about earning six figures in a field where competition is so fierce that you've got grown men willing to earn poverty-level wages in order to enter the field. The problem with your "betting lives on the .1%" argument is that it logically requires you to pay pilots based on the price of a person's life. I hope that most people are reasonable enough to see that basing wages on the value of a life is rediculous.

As an aside, you are implicitly insulting people who earn less than you. You essentially assume that they are less professional because they earn less money. Pretty arrogant, don't you think? Who says that a pilot earning $90k flying a 767 can't be just as professional and competent as some old fart making $200k?

 

[Dinger]

I am on furlough, so is my wife.

 

[Clyde]

I understand exactly what you mean by "paying your dues". I just don't think that should factor into how much a company pays you.

Why sell yourself short? Put another way, why not expect your company to pay you the maximum amount possible? Like I said, the company is interested in making money, not necessarily making you a happy camper. Put yourself in the shoes of a CEO .. do you spend $150 million to boost your employees salaries 10% beyond an already high level, or do you invest the money into capital? If you're in business to make money, I think we all know what the answer is. If the employees are truly worth that extra 10%, in order to compete with other labor consumers, you will have to match their demands. However, in the world of unions, the demands of the labor group may be (and generally are) out of synch with their true market value.

First of all, if I were in the shoes of a CEO, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Second, if your company offered to double your salary, what would you do? What if they wanted to take 1/3 of it away from you? Would you agree to the latter because your company is in the business of making money? And, the assumption here is that the company is in a position to pay more. Yes, if the company is in dire financial straits, by all means it is understandable to save money. But, if it is financially sound and CAN afford to pay more, what is wrong with expecting a little more in your paycheck?

I can't put a dollar amount on my sacrifices I put in over the years, but I will say it's a lot. Considering what I put up with, I'm not going to sell out, especially if the money is there.

It sounds like you could care less about your worth, and that's fine. We are all entitled to our own opinions. It also sounds like you are not part of a labor union, or if you are, you are not there by choice. These regioal airlines out there have the capapbility to pay more, they just choose not too. If the attitudes changed, this would be a better respected, well compensated industry.

BTW, when the trucking industry drives the railroads into bankruptcy, don't come crying to me. It's because they are working for far less and being more efficient than trains. But of course, I'm sure you'll understand.

 

[Clyde]

The market dictates what a brain surgeon makes. And guess what, they pretty much write their own ticket due to high demand for surgeons and very short supply.

You're not going to settle for a half-ass wage? Are you just going to sit on your hands if and when you are furloughed, turning down perfectly fine jobs that simply don't pay as much as you think you're worth? Doubt it. You'll take the best job you can get (which will probably be much closer to your true market value). You show me someone who "refuses to settle for a low wage" and I'll show you someone who did just that when climbing the ranks or trying to put food on the table after a furlough.


Well let's just say that as a "professional" concessions negotiator, the truth is not your best friend. Your job is not to tell the truth .. it is to do whatever is necessary to barter for the best concessions possible. I guess that's true professionalism today.


No, I'm the type of person who has no sympathy for some guy complaining about earning six figures in a field where competition is so fierce that you've got grown men willing to earn poverty-level wages in order to enter the field. The problem with your "betting lives on the .1%" argument is that it logically requires you to pay pilots based on the price of a person's life. I hope that most people are reasonable enough to see that basing wages on the value of a life is rediculous.

As an aside, you are implicitly insulting people who earn less than you. You essentially assume that they are less professional because they earn less money. Pretty arrogant, don't you think? Who says that a pilot earning $90k flying a 767 can't be just as professional and competent as some old fart making $200k?

What's insulting is people like you who think that guys like me just walked into a job like this. Yes, I make over $90K flying a 767, but don't you think for one minute that it was handed to me on a silver platter.

The problem is people like yourself who are unmotivated and too lazy to bust your ball$ to EARN something like this. Your only recourse is to insult those who have made it. And yes, by reading your above posts, I believe this is a valid statement.

Now, it appears you operate locomotives. The trucking industry is kicking the pants off of the railroad industry because it is more efficient. The drivers are paid far less than what they can be making, and working very long hours. I.E., they are efficient. When your job goes bye-bye, PM me. I'm a nice guy and could probably get you a job loading trailers. You would only be making 8 or 9 dollars an hour, but I know will understand. The company is in the business of earning a profit, not looking out for your best interests.