USA Today -- Airline Employment

[secks]

Obviously, you have no concept of paying your dues. You also missed the whole point. I don't believe in selling the candy store to make an extra buck. However, if the company is healthy and able to pay the wage, than they should pay it. Why sell yourself short?

I understand exactly what you mean by "paying your dues". I just don't think that should factor into how much a company pays you.

Why sell yourself short? Put another way, why not expect your company to pay you the maximum amount possible? Like I said, the company is interested in making money, not necessarily making you a happy camper. Put yourself in the shoes of a CEO .. do you spend $150 million to boost your employees salaries 10% beyond an already high level, or do you invest the money into capital? If you're in business to make money, I think we all know what the answer is. If the employees are truly worth that extra 10%, in order to compete with other labor consumers, you will have to match their demands. However, in the world of unions, the demands of the labor group may be (and generally are) out of synch with their true market value.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Forget it.

 

[VMA214]

"Yeah, it is. It's not often that you get paid 6 figures to do something that thousands of others are willing/qualified (legally speaking) to do at half or a third of that. Think about it."

Boys... You only need read this quote to understand that these are the people who will bring this "job" to the level AND pay of a Greyhound bus driver. The "problem" is that airplanes today are so automated and system redundant that 99.9% of the time a Greyhound bus driver will be able to do the job. Unfortunately, the traveling public is all too ready and willing to bet their lives on that .1%
On the bright side though...the airlines would start to get their moneys worth from all those p1ss tests...

 

[Double Shot]

But this is why an 18 year ERJ captain at expressjet makes $80 an hour, and the same year captain on the CRJ at Comair makes $100.

As for pilots wanting to do my job at 1/3 the pay I don't think about, I see it!.

Now, how about bringing the topic full circle and calling me overpaid !




You are forgetting the red circle pilots at ExpressJet...And they make more then $80 dollars an hour.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I can't believe what I am reading!


120K is accpetable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotyip
I have never seen it and live pretty well on less than that. I would have been very happy to get that wage and fly an airplane at the same time.

D@mn straight. If you're earning 6 figures in an extremely competitive field, doing something relatively enjoyable, you've got no room to complain.

​

As a pilot negotiator how can I take this to the table? Management will lock right on to this and claim it as MAX pay. So if you have a 18 year longevity scale 120k would be it. Now think about starting pay.....

You guys are true professionals......

 

[Dinger]

How much do you think a brain surgeon should make? Would you go to the one who bids the lowest just so he can get the job?

Professional pilots/airline pilots operate in a "specialized" field. Pretty soon, this crap about $40,000 a year being acceptable pay will drive away most true professionals. Then you really do have a problem getting more than your average bus driver for a pilot.

I remember when I had low time, I thought along those lines......what I wouldn't do to get in a jet.......those **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** greedy (more experienced) pilots!

Bottom line............don't play limbo with compensation issues. Don't rent yourself out as the lowest bidder. Concessions are one thing, but the day I settle for a half-ass wage is the day the CEO's give some concessions of their own.

 

[secks]

How much do you think a brain surgeon should make? Would you go to the one who bids the lowest just so he can get the job?

Bottom line............don't play limbo with compensation issues. Don't rent yourself out as the lowest bidder. Concessions are one thing, but the day I settle for a half-ass wage is the day the CEO's give some concessions of their own.

The market dictates what a brain surgeon makes. And guess what, they pretty much write their own ticket due to high demand for surgeons and very short supply.

You're not going to settle for a half-ass wage? Are you just going to sit on your hands if and when you are furloughed, turning down perfectly fine jobs that simply don't pay as much as you think you're worth? Doubt it. You'll take the best job you can get (which will probably be much closer to your true market value). You show me someone who "refuses to settle for a low wage" and I'll show you someone who did just that when climbing the ranks or trying to put food on the table after a furlough.

I can't believe what I am reading!


As a pilot negotiator how can I take this to the table? Management will lock right on to this and claim it as MAX pay. So if you have a 18 year longevity scale 120k would be it. Now think about starting pay.....



You guys are true professionals......

Well let's just say that as a "professional" concessions negotiator, the truth is not your best friend. Your job is not to tell the truth .. it is to do whatever is necessary to barter for the best concessions possible. I guess that's true professionalism today.

Boys... You only need read this quote to understand that these are the people who will bring this "job" to the level AND pay of a Greyhound bus driver. The "problem" is that airplanes today are so automated and system redundant that 99.9% of the time a Greyhound bus driver will be able to do the job. Unfortunately, the traveling public is all too ready and willing to bet their lives on that .1%
On the bright side though...the airlines would start to get their moneys worth from all those p1ss tests...

No, I'm the type of person who has no sympathy for some guy complaining about earning six figures in a field where competition is so fierce that you've got grown men willing to earn poverty-level wages in order to enter the field. The problem with your "betting lives on the .1%" argument is that it logically requires you to pay pilots based on the price of a person's life. I hope that most people are reasonable enough to see that basing wages on the value of a life is rediculous.

As an aside, you are implicitly insulting people who earn less than you. You essentially assume that they are less professional because they earn less money. Pretty arrogant, don't you think? Who says that a pilot earning $90k flying a 767 can't be just as professional and competent as some old fart making $200k?

 

[Dinger]

I am on furlough, so is my wife.

 

[Clyde]

I understand exactly what you mean by "paying your dues". I just don't think that should factor into how much a company pays you.

Why sell yourself short? Put another way, why not expect your company to pay you the maximum amount possible? Like I said, the company is interested in making money, not necessarily making you a happy camper. Put yourself in the shoes of a CEO .. do you spend $150 million to boost your employees salaries 10% beyond an already high level, or do you invest the money into capital? If you're in business to make money, I think we all know what the answer is. If the employees are truly worth that extra 10%, in order to compete with other labor consumers, you will have to match their demands. However, in the world of unions, the demands of the labor group may be (and generally are) out of synch with their true market value.

First of all, if I were in the shoes of a CEO, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Second, if your company offered to double your salary, what would you do? What if they wanted to take 1/3 of it away from you? Would you agree to the latter because your company is in the business of making money? And, the assumption here is that the company is in a position to pay more. Yes, if the company is in dire financial straits, by all means it is understandable to save money. But, if it is financially sound and CAN afford to pay more, what is wrong with expecting a little more in your paycheck?

I can't put a dollar amount on my sacrifices I put in over the years, but I will say it's a lot. Considering what I put up with, I'm not going to sell out, especially if the money is there.

It sounds like you could care less about your worth, and that's fine. We are all entitled to our own opinions. It also sounds like you are not part of a labor union, or if you are, you are not there by choice. These regioal airlines out there have the capapbility to pay more, they just choose not too. If the attitudes changed, this would be a better respected, well compensated industry.

BTW, when the trucking industry drives the railroads into bankruptcy, don't come crying to me. It's because they are working for far less and being more efficient than trains. But of course, I'm sure you'll understand.

 

[Clyde]

The market dictates what a brain surgeon makes. And guess what, they pretty much write their own ticket due to high demand for surgeons and very short supply.

You're not going to settle for a half-ass wage? Are you just going to sit on your hands if and when you are furloughed, turning down perfectly fine jobs that simply don't pay as much as you think you're worth? Doubt it. You'll take the best job you can get (which will probably be much closer to your true market value). You show me someone who "refuses to settle for a low wage" and I'll show you someone who did just that when climbing the ranks or trying to put food on the table after a furlough.


Well let's just say that as a "professional" concessions negotiator, the truth is not your best friend. Your job is not to tell the truth .. it is to do whatever is necessary to barter for the best concessions possible. I guess that's true professionalism today.


No, I'm the type of person who has no sympathy for some guy complaining about earning six figures in a field where competition is so fierce that you've got grown men willing to earn poverty-level wages in order to enter the field. The problem with your "betting lives on the .1%" argument is that it logically requires you to pay pilots based on the price of a person's life. I hope that most people are reasonable enough to see that basing wages on the value of a life is rediculous.

As an aside, you are implicitly insulting people who earn less than you. You essentially assume that they are less professional because they earn less money. Pretty arrogant, don't you think? Who says that a pilot earning $90k flying a 767 can't be just as professional and competent as some old fart making $200k?

What's insulting is people like you who think that guys like me just walked into a job like this. Yes, I make over $90K flying a 767, but don't you think for one minute that it was handed to me on a silver platter.

The problem is people like yourself who are unmotivated and too lazy to bust your ball$ to EARN something like this. Your only recourse is to insult those who have made it. And yes, by reading your above posts, I believe this is a valid statement.

Now, it appears you operate locomotives. The trucking industry is kicking the pants off of the railroad industry because it is more efficient. The drivers are paid far less than what they can be making, and working very long hours. I.E., they are efficient. When your job goes bye-bye, PM me. I'm a nice guy and could probably get you a job loading trailers. You would only be making 8 or 9 dollars an hour, but I know will understand. The company is in the business of earning a profit, not looking out for your best interests.

 

[Rottweiller]

Dude,
You must live in the middle of Nebraska not in Chicago. I work 2 jobs, my fiancee 2 jobs, no kids, cars old but paid off, 1000 square foot 50+ year old home.....yes, we save a little off the $100,000 we made last year but it is not a lot of money these days.

Do you think there is an executive out there telling his buddy..."man, I'd be perfectly happy if I got $1 million severance, why are you complaining that you are only getting $3 million" I THINK NOT! WTF is wrong with some of you people?

You must have one fantasic life style, that's all I can say. I may only be single and an Rj Capt in the west burbs of Chicago but I still manage to put some $$ away, new house 18 months ago, new car 2 years ago and fly my own 'spam can' around for fun.

Don't get me wrong, more money would be great but I don't see that happening any time soon so I make the best of what I have got. It's time to stop bashing the regionals for everything and perhaps turn the aggression to the LCC's who are willing to operate on very small % margins flooding the market with thousands of low cost seats. Legacy carriers who traditionally operated on higher profit margins and thus able to pay more can not do so now, and in a lot of cases have to put regionals on routes to show a presence who operate at lower costs just to keep up.

 

[StaySeated]

Oh boy, I have read some dumb sh1t on this board but this has to top most threads. Did I actually read someone say that "six figures" was satisfactory? Don't any of you "professionals" communicate with anyone outside of this ridiculous aviation community? You can make 100k making pizza, or landscaping, or appraising, or being a facking doorman!!!I know because three of my best friends do all of these things, one of them makes it all cash/clear (don't tell the irs).
This whole "I am doing what I love" crap is so old and naive I can just see the managers and attorneys that represent them wet themselves when they read it. I read the USA today and was disgusted. We have lost the battle and are about to lose the war. Anyone that is content with the current state of the industry and the future direction of labor in this debacle deserves everything the receive. Come on, someone give me a rah rah about how great this is and how great that might it be. We are screwed. Narrow body flying is gone. Embraer's and Bombardiers are coming and the pay is a fraction of what is was. I am not an economist, but I believe that 55K is less than 155K and if Johnny 737 capt. made 155K last year and I "might" make 55K in a few years flying the same route in an Emb 170 than we have not made much progress. Oh wait, jets are cool and I am cool if I fly a jet and you know what, jets are cool. Jesus facking christ are we screwed or what?

 

[tzpilot]

I don't care about the money. I'm in it because I love to fly. If I top out at 60 grand a year flying an RJ my whole life, then so be it. I just want to be part of this industry.

Hey Riddleman,

I used to think like that when I left Riddle. I suggest you frame that quote and look back on it 10 years from now and let us know if you still feel the same way. By the way, which campus did you graduate from?

 

[thruthemurk]

Not everyone out there believes in bending their company over just to line their own pockets. .

wow. This post hits a new low in ignorance.

"bending the company over??" You have been brainwashed.

massa, massa did I do a real good job, massa?? Whatever you feel good about throwin my way..I be realllll happy fo yo generosity.

 

[che_rivera]

Attn: Secks, Pilotyip, & Swafo



1.pinnacle Airways Crj Crashed In Missouri Killing 2 Crewmembers
2.corporate Airways J-31 Crashed In Missouri Killing Three Crew Members And 16 Passengers
3.747 Crashed In Halifax Killing All 7 Crewmembers

Perhaps, You Would Like To Tell Them You Would To Fly For Free.

 

[USMC319]

QUOTE: " It's time to stop bashing the regionals for everything and perhaps turn the aggression to the LCC's who are willing to operate on very small % margins flooding the market with thousands of low cost seats. "

That's a pretty shi!!y thing to say Rottweiller. Are you management at a regional? BTW, if you have been absent from the industry for the last few years, your post better describes the game-plan for most of the legacies, not the LCCs. Here is a fresh idea; how about we (labor) figure out a way to keep our collective pay and benefits at a reasonable value instead of "turning our aggression to the LCCs".

 

[BSkin]

Why argue amongst ourselves? It is the way it is now. How many different factors over the years can you blame it on. I went into the Navy pilot program with dreams of making 3-400,000 bucks someday with Delta, American, Northwest, TWA, or USAir. That didn't and won't happen. I, as well as I'm sure just about every other career pilot out there, am doing the best I can to get the most out of this career. Sorry legacy guys and people that still believe it could be that way. I'll take my low 6 figure income (in a few years) and be very happy with it. And for those people that think my attitude is part of the problem -- no, it's a product of the problem.

 

[FN FAL]

Attn: Secks, Pilotyip, & Swafo



1.pinnacle Airways Crj Crashed In Missouri Killing 2 Crewmembers
2.corporate Airways J-31 Crashed In Missouri Killing Three Crew Members And 16 Passengers
3.747 Crashed In Halifax Killing All 7 Crewmembers

Perhaps, You Would Like To Tell Them You Would To Fly For Free.

I understand the sentiment, but since none of these crashes has been ruled on yet, wouldn't it be fair to say that in a hypothetical sense that all three of these crashes COULD become ruled as pilot error?

And if in fact these crashes become ruled pilot error, I'm supposed to ask negligent pilots what about wages?

Sorry, you lost me in the translation. I would wait until an accident is ruled on before using it in correlation to something like this thread.

 

[RJP]

I sure hope that none of the "wow, i love to fly for as little as they'll pay me" guys are on their union negotiating committee!

When's the last time your dentist took a pay-cut? He can't kill 100 people with one mistake but he probably pulls home half a mil a year. Sure he went to school. But so did you!

You're responsible professionals, stop acting like a bunch of little kids at an airshow.

Wow. Neat. I'd do that for free.

 

[capt. megadeth]

"I don't care about the money. I'm in it because I love to fly. If I top out at 60 grand a year flying an RJ my whole life, then so be it. I just want to be part of this industry."

Riddleman sounds like the 20 something FO I flew with earlier this year who is still living at home sucking off of mom's ta ta's. Making $22,000 a year he says "It's fun!" Dumb $hit! Dude, you are a complete **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ing idiot.

Rez,
Amen brotha! I agree with you 100%....it's no wonder salaries are going down the tubes!