US Rejects United bid for loan guarante

[BLUE BAYOU]

I assume from your whining, attitude and profile you're a UAL pilot.

Boeingman, sorry I can't fulfill all of your dreams, I'm actually a jetBlue captain (hence BLUE BAYOU). BTW, Mr. Bethune quoted about a year ago and once again a few months ago that JB would be out of business within the year...

I only thought it interesting how tough this industry is and how quick some competitors can be when it comes time for blood. It should be a time of unity (no pun intended) amongst the airlines and I truly believe an airline the size of United will have a great impact on our industry if it does go bankrupt. Some things to consider: a bankrupt airline can do a lot of employee related downsizing-- in pay, benefits (retirements), and sheer numbers (layoffs). Additionally, they can become more competitive! If they do it right, a more lean and mean fighting machine can emerge...

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman, sorry I can't fulfill all of your dreams, I'm actually a jetBlue captain (hence BLUE BAYOU). BTW, Mr. Bethune quoted about a year ago and once again a few months ago that JB would be out of business within the year...

I only thought it interesting how tough this industry is and how quick some competitors can be when it comes time for blood. It should be a time of unity (no pun intended) amongst the airlines and I truly believe an airline the size of United will have a great impact on our industry if it does go bankrupt. Some things to consider: a bankrupt airline can do a lot of employee related downsizing-- in pay, benefits (retirements), and sheer numbers (layoffs). Additionally, they can become more competitive! If they do it right, a more lean and mean fighting machine can emerge...

I stand corrected, and now I understand your chip about Gordon.
It just initially ticked me off since I thought you were UAL and what he IS saying about them is spot on. Hence my irritation. Plus, I have a problem with the Brain Surgeons to begin with.
And here I was chastising that idiot Eaglefly for assumptions. Shame on me for mine.

Anyway, everything you're saying about a BK airline is correct. However in UAL's case, that is a completely different animal. They have burned through so much cash screwing around with the unions in a hopeless attempt to get what the ATSB is considering a viable business plan (one part from labor anyway). What assets they have are already being scoped by the creditors and no one, I mean no one is going to loan them money for DIP in this environment. Unless of course it is at high rates of interest. If they couldn't convince 3 people from the government with a flawed plan, there is no way they can sell the plan to actual lenders for DIP.

It seems to me that Tilton was putting all his eggs in one basket and the time frame for other options, especially financially has long since past. The handwriting is on the wall.

There is NO unity amongst the airlines or individual ALPA carriers.
Anyone that buys into that charade really hasn't experience the full force hosing pilots do unto themselves. I have seen ALPA eat their fellow brethren left and right over the years. I'd be happy to point out examples of our DAL friends and USAir brothers past transgressions, but it is history. UAL pilots are about to learn a very hard lesson. One that they will not only never forget but never be able to overcome. I predict Chapter 7 by next summer for them.

 

[SWA/FO]

You know its not just the low fare carriers that have hurt UAL, DAL, AA & NWA - what about Flexjet, Netjets & Flight options.

 

[rice]

I hate to say it and I hope I'm wrong but my money is on Boeingman.
Good Luck to everyone at UAL.

Rice

 

[beytzim]

Emb Guy,

You the man! Everything you said in your posts is right on. For the people who argued with you...well, they may never figure it out.

keep up the smart thinking.

 

[dispatchguy]

You know its not just the low fare carriers that have hurt UAL, DAL, AA & NWA - what about Flexjet, Netjets & Flight options.

Actually its not the LCC's that have hurt UAL, AA, and NWA, its their own incompetent, inept, and outright asinine (at least in UALs situation) management. What Goodwin and his minions did to UAL is criminal - and I'd say it to his face if I could. Its the same incompetent management that would announce a merger in the middle of the most contentous pilot contract negotiations that company had had to date. It's the same incompetent management that reduced travel agency commissions (say what you will, but travel agents are an airlines bread and butter); I worked at an agency a few years back where booking UAL was to be avoided at all costs due to the capping of commissions - who but someone incompetent (or just plain stupid), would bite the hand that feeds them?

All the LCCs do is provide a fair service, for a fair price, one that the network majors are unable to compete with at the same cost structure.

I wish the best to my former colleagues at UAL.

 

[Indapool]

So why is this news a surprise? Nearly everyone outside UAL saw this coming as soon as the "Industry Leading Contract" was signed. No surprise.

The LCC's had no nothing to do with it. Tell yourselves they did if it makes you feel any better.

And after it all shakes out it will still be the "ILC" that started the spiral that we all will experience.You can blame it on 9\11..you wouldn't be the first.

But in all fairness it wasn't your fault the loan guarantee was denied.

It was, IMHO, political.
Which foreign bank is owed the greatest amount of money?
Which foreign country has been adamantly against the current administrations foreign policy?
What administration has a documented history of battling organized labor?
And it goes on and on..

We are all tools...
Sorry to say but It's the nature of the job

That or my tinfoil hat is too tight

 

[superfly]

United and Ch. 11

Hey guys and gals,

I think you guys are wrong about the fate of the industry. If and when United files for bankcrupcy protection there will be a positive impact for the consumer initially. United will continue to fly and the creditors will be put in the bull pen. United will probablly have very competive prices to keep customers. Eventually United will be forced to shrink it's operation to settle debts and eliminate unprofitable routes.

While I admit loosing a job in a aviation slump is lousey (I have been furloughed as well), the industry is cyclical and will bounce back. United will emerge from bankcrupcy in about 2 years as a more efficient and competitive player.

After the initial shrinkage, other airlines will benifit because less RSM's means they can charge more and obtain higher yields. So while this is bad news for employees of United, it may be a just what this industry needs to rebound.

Just my opinion,
superfly

 

[dragon]

Chapter 7?

Boeingman

I have heard of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy but what exactly does chapter 7 entail?

Thanks

 

[Boeingman]

Re: Chapter 7?

Boeingman

I have heard of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy but what exactly does chapter 7 entail?

Thanks

Liquidation of the company to satisfy creditors.