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US Rejects United bid for loan guarante
- Thread starter vixin
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LEDSLEDDRVR
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2002
- Posts
- 43
UAL/US Air
Isn't it even more of a coinicedence that those SAME two carriers were just a couple years ago attempting to merge. The same two were not allowed to merge because of the size and market share they would have been. Gee, ya think this was planned? Kinda makes ya wonder. It would be good rumor FODDER
Isn't it even more of a coinicedence that those SAME two carriers were just a couple years ago attempting to merge. The same two were not allowed to merge because of the size and market share they would have been. Gee, ya think this was planned? Kinda makes ya wonder. It would be good rumor FODDER
Interesting stuff folks. It is amazing how we pilots know it all.
EMB guy: I don't claim to know much about anything, but it is my guess that most major pilots worked for a regional at one point. What amazes me about us "professional" pilots is it seems all that matters is "I've got mine". Pilots have always been looking past the current job for that holy grail--major airline. IF ALPA is holding down the regionals, pilots only have themselves to blame, and most of them came from a regional. As mentioned earlier, pilots are willing to farm themselves out to any flying job that pays better than their current job (especially if it's a bigger newer jet). Now, everyone who was making a stepping stone move at JB feels like a genius (no offense). This is all a cycle folks. Things will change, some for the better, some not. Start-ups can grow and seem like the greatest thing since FMS, but eventually the workforce wants some real payback (remember how much SWAPA originally wanted pay increased prior to Sept 11?)
All we seem to do as a group is b1tch about some other pilot group. We need to start acting like professionals.
See
EMB guy: I don't claim to know much about anything, but it is my guess that most major pilots worked for a regional at one point. What amazes me about us "professional" pilots is it seems all that matters is "I've got mine". Pilots have always been looking past the current job for that holy grail--major airline. IF ALPA is holding down the regionals, pilots only have themselves to blame, and most of them came from a regional. As mentioned earlier, pilots are willing to farm themselves out to any flying job that pays better than their current job (especially if it's a bigger newer jet). Now, everyone who was making a stepping stone move at JB feels like a genius (no offense). This is all a cycle folks. Things will change, some for the better, some not. Start-ups can grow and seem like the greatest thing since FMS, but eventually the workforce wants some real payback (remember how much SWAPA originally wanted pay increased prior to Sept 11?)
All we seem to do as a group is b1tch about some other pilot group. We need to start acting like professionals.
See
Lifesyle, There are plenty out there who agree with you.
It's seems so strange to me that the pilots at airlines (LLC's) with the lower pay scales seam to gloat at UAL problems. It also seems that they can't wait for DAL to "get what they have coming". It's seems like an attitude of "see what a great contract will get you, you guys should be over worked and underpaid just like us and you would still have a job." LLC pilots don't even have an A or B plan, in addition to being low paid. How can you guys be happy about that?
I still can't understand why anyone who has a career as a profesional pilot can't see that this is a very bad deal for all of our futures. I don't care if you are a major, regional, cargo, or LLC pilot. Guess what, UAL under Chapter 11 will chew into alot of carriers revenue. LLC's included. Just wait to see what happens to SWA revenue when AMR files Chap. 11 to remain competitive.
The problem is not entirely labor cost. It is also a revenue issue. Fairs are just plain ridiculous. SW advertises $39 dollar fairs, give me a break. I'm not sure you could walk to your destination cheaper. Looks like I better start my own business since I won't be able to send my kids to college as an airline pilot if these trends continue.
It's seems so strange to me that the pilots at airlines (LLC's) with the lower pay scales seam to gloat at UAL problems. It also seems that they can't wait for DAL to "get what they have coming". It's seems like an attitude of "see what a great contract will get you, you guys should be over worked and underpaid just like us and you would still have a job." LLC pilots don't even have an A or B plan, in addition to being low paid. How can you guys be happy about that?
I still can't understand why anyone who has a career as a profesional pilot can't see that this is a very bad deal for all of our futures. I don't care if you are a major, regional, cargo, or LLC pilot. Guess what, UAL under Chapter 11 will chew into alot of carriers revenue. LLC's included. Just wait to see what happens to SWA revenue when AMR files Chap. 11 to remain competitive.
The problem is not entirely labor cost. It is also a revenue issue. Fairs are just plain ridiculous. SW advertises $39 dollar fairs, give me a break. I'm not sure you could walk to your destination cheaper. Looks like I better start my own business since I won't be able to send my kids to college as an airline pilot if these trends continue.
EMB,
I have trouble believing civilian pilots are the minority, but I don't have have any data on this point. If you are running into a lot of military folks during IOE, my guess is they were not military pilots (helo maybe), otherwise they would, more than likely, have gone to a major (up until recently of course). I don't want a mil vs. civ flamefest here.
Like you said, someone who talks about controlling the LCC's is clueless to life. In a free market, you have to evolve. Remember Montgomery Ward? It's a little known fact that Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer was created by them in an ad campaign many moons ago. They didn't evolve, and closed their doors shortly before Christmas a few years back. The list of airlines that didn't evolve is long. This evolution requires a team effort between labor and mgmt. Until this happens it will be rocky.
Time to fix dinner.
See
I have trouble believing civilian pilots are the minority, but I don't have have any data on this point. If you are running into a lot of military folks during IOE, my guess is they were not military pilots (helo maybe), otherwise they would, more than likely, have gone to a major (up until recently of course). I don't want a mil vs. civ flamefest here.
Like you said, someone who talks about controlling the LCC's is clueless to life. In a free market, you have to evolve. Remember Montgomery Ward? It's a little known fact that Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer was created by them in an ad campaign many moons ago. They didn't evolve, and closed their doors shortly before Christmas a few years back. The list of airlines that didn't evolve is long. This evolution requires a team effort between labor and mgmt. Until this happens it will be rocky.
Time to fix dinner.
See
tothelineplz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2002
- Posts
- 62
tothelineplz
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2002
- Posts
- 62
Slug
SWA Line Swine
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2001
- Posts
- 496
LEDSLEDDRVR
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2002
- Posts
- 43
Civies vs Milis
Most of my career thus far has been left seat in a jets, so I got lucky. I've flown with both Civilian Guys and Military guys. Folks, they can both fly. Even though I had an ex navy pilot flip out while landing in LAS because anything "power off" to them is considered a no no, or as he put it, "an unusal manuver". Having never been in the military before who knows what he ment. Although it's a great rivalry, both are good at what they do. Neither does anymore or less screw ups than the other.
FLY SAFE GANG
Most of my career thus far has been left seat in a jets, so I got lucky. I've flown with both Civilian Guys and Military guys. Folks, they can both fly. Even though I had an ex navy pilot flip out while landing in LAS because anything "power off" to them is considered a no no, or as he put it, "an unusal manuver". Having never been in the military before who knows what he ment. Although it's a great rivalry, both are good at what they do. Neither does anymore or less screw ups than the other.
FLY SAFE GANG
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