US Airways to hire

[Lampshade]

Sure wish there was a way we could wager on this on FI.com! The company wants the judge to tell them the west can or can not sue them if they accept anything other than the nic if I understand it right and I bet the judge will basically decide he can't make that call. The company is liable to USAPA and USAPA is liable to the west pilots so your only recourse is DFR II against USAPA and only USAPA. But I've been wrong before.

A three party contract (TA) with two of the parties (USAPA & Co.) reneging on the agreed upon conditions (Nic is the list) of the merger. You bet your bippy there will be an injunction, lawsuit and a DFR.

 

[becket]

Sure wish there was a way we could wager on this on FI.com! The company wants the judge to tell them the west can or can not sue them if they accept anything other than the nic if I understand it right and I bet the judge will basically decide he can't make that call. The company is liable to USAPA and USAPA is liable to the west pilots so your only recourse is DFR II against USAPA and only USAPA. But I've been wrong before.

East pilots have been chronically mis-informed for years. Do yourself a favor. Just stop reading all the USAPA lies and b.s.. Someday you're going to be shocked and amazed at the level of deception perpetrated by your fake union. I wouldn't be surprised if a law enforcement agency eventually came after the founding idiots and Cleary.

Cleary btw already has cross hairs on his forehead in the form of permanent injunction.

 

[Sandhawk]

Even though you "may" get a fairly quick upgrade, you will still be working for a dysfunctional company, run by a drunkard and his gimp, with a limp-richard excuse of an onion, and the remainder of the pi$$ed off masses of eastwipes that have yet to retire....

ENJOY !!!

 

[BrickTop]

So how/where do we apply?

 

[waveflyer]

Better than Republic's top scale...

Actually it's not-

The saddest pay item in our airlines today is that an E175 capt flying for republic under USAir's flag makes $20/hr more than their mainline USAir counterpart for flying a smaller version of the same type.

Absolutely convoluted.

Republic E175= $119/hr
Republic E170= $109/hr
USAir. E190= $99/hr

And I guarantee republic pilots have better work rules and more opportunities to break guarantee

I dont care why USAPA was voted in- I just know the damage it's futile existence is doing- incredibly dumb stance they're taking-
Lawyers win. Mgmt wins. Pilots everywhere lose.

 

[LearLove]

Actually it's not-

The saddest pay item in our airlines today is that an E175 capt flying for republic under USAir's flag makes $20/hr more than their mainline USAir counterpart for flying a smaller version of the same type.

Absolutely convoluted.

Republic E175= $119/hr
Republic E170= $109/hr
USAir. E190= $99/hr

And I guarantee republic pilots have better work rules and more opportunities to break guarantee

I dont care why USAPA was voted in- I just know the damage it's futile existence is doing- incredibly dumb stance they're taking-
Lawyers win. Mgmt wins. Pilots everywhere lose.

yeah but what maybe 5 of your guys are at top of scale. the rest are all about 5 year average time in service.

 

[Bringupthebird]

What you don't realize is how the AA integration will make you wish you'd never left Uncle Hulas. USAPA never provided anything when they were the majority. When APA is finished with them, they will pine for the days of the ALPA war chest.

 

[waveflyer]

yeah but what maybe 5 of your guys are at top of scale. the rest are all about 5 year average time in service.

My guys? Never worked there dude

2000 pilots there- takes 13 years to top usair rates- this is not 1999 - a relative few have been able to move on since 9/11 bc of all the insane outsourcing- factor in work rules and there are many more than you think making a lot more to fly a smaller version of the same type-
Hell, there are Mesa guys flying 50 seaters making more

 

[becket]

My
Hell, there are Mesa guys flying 50 seaters making more

Yep. That will be the case for several more years thanks to USAPA and their insane leadership.

 

[weasel_lips]

Retirements - East (active), West (active), Total, Active (age 65 only)
2013 - 158 (109), 48 (33), 206, 142
2014 - 206 (155), 43 (38), 249, 193
2015 - 183 (142), 54 (41), 237, 183
2016 - 223 (171), 48 (41), 271, 212
2017 - 237 (181), 64 (47), 301, 228
2018 - 254 (204), 52 (47), 306, 251
2019 - 256 (201), 76 (65), 332, 266
2020 - 240 (195), 67 (56), 307, 251
2021 - 246 (175), 67 (57), 313, 232
2022 - 201 (161), 66 (55), 267, 216
Totals - 2204 (1694), 585 (480), 2789, 2174

If you look at the chart above you can see that Weasel Lips is full of it.

To get up to around 50 percentile on the east would require you to move up 1400 positions for a new hire on the east, thats around year 2020.

The year 2020 is still only 8 years away for 2012 newhires at your very pessimistic 50 percentile calcualtion.

The most junior group II captain is at 67 percentile on the east list, not 50%. Factor in a few early retirements + more A330's comming = more IRO lines. A 2012 newhire pilot will hold group II captain in 2017.

 

[kf4amu]

Actually it's not-

The saddest pay item in our airlines today is that an E175 capt flying for republic under USAir's flag makes $20/hr more than their mainline USAir counterpart for flying a smaller version of the same type.

Absolutely convoluted.

Republic E175= $119/hr
Republic E170= $109/hr
USAir. E190= $99/hr

And I guarantee republic pilots have better work rules and more opportunities to break guarantee

I dont care why USAPA was voted in- I just know the damage it's futile existence is doing- incredibly dumb stance they're taking-
Lawyers win. Mgmt wins. Pilots everywhere lose.

You're just talking about Captains. No one goes into USAir as a Captain on a E190. Even if they did, USAir has a 10 dollar/hr advantage in the first few years. Plus, Republic grew so much during the major's bankruptcies that most Captains on the 175/170 are in the 5-10 year seniority range, so comparing those low years to each other, US still has an advantage.

Republic management was smart...they knew that they either wouldn't be around in 20 years, or they would just outsource the flying to a new startup, so they can agree to whatever rate they want at the 20 year mark and it doesnt cost them a dime.

 

[Lampshade]

The year 2020 is still only 8 years away for 2012 newhires at your very pessimistic 50 percentile calcualtion.

The most junior group II captain is at 67 percentile on the east list, not 50%. Factor in a few early retirements + more A330's comming = more IRO lines. A 2012 newhire pilot will hold group II captain in 2017.

You need to check your seniority list and notice all those SIC by the captains names they are not active so they are not part of the math. You can't have nearly 70% on the seniority list be captains... lol. I forgot all easties are captains in there minds.

 

[weasel_lips]

You need to check your seniority list and notice all those SIC by the captains names they are not active so they are not part of the math. You can't have nearly 70% on the seniority list be captains... lol. I forgot all easties are captains in there minds.

Your retirement numbers don't include anyone on leave?

Many senior FO's could hold captain and don't bid it. Many prefer to hold a line, or they are IRO's and like flying to Europe.

Therefore if you are willing to be on reserve, group II captain does reach down to 67% on the last bid award of active pilots. There are many FO's senior to that person that are still FO's... (see above)

You think it is going to take 8 years to upgrade for a 2012 hire vs. my 5. OK, I will split it with you... 6.5 years.

 

[5w5flyer]

Talked to one of the Fleet Captains in the training center this Friday. According to him the new hires will being in January of 2013, only to replace retirements.

 

[charlie2]

A three party contract (TA) with two of the parties (USAPA & Co.) reneging on the agreed upon conditions (Nic is the list) of the merger. You bet your bippy there will be an injunction, lawsuit and a DFR.

Yes we know but like Wake did before the next judge will dismiss the company part.

 

[cbrown1]

Talked to one of the Fleet Captains in the training center this Friday. According to him the new hires will being in January of 2013, only to replace retirements.

looks like over a year away.

 

[charlie2]

East pilots have been chronically mis-informed for years. Do yourself a favor. Just stop reading all the USAPA lies and b.s.. Someday you're going to be shocked and amazed at the level of deception perpetrated by your fake union. I wouldn't be surprised if a law enforcement agency eventually came after the founding idiots and Cleary.

Cleary btw already has cross hairs on his forehead in the form of permanent injunction.

The problem is I'm friends with a bunch of the evil USAPA reps and commitee members so I just can't agree with you on all the lies and b. s. So we are in the same awful predicament as UAL and AA pilots? Big deal. Ever read the United injunction? It reads word for word like ours. If one of our pilots gets fined for violating it, it is their own fault. I wont ever get fined so the injunction is meaningless to me and I am really glad we gave management a summer of love.

 

[charlie2]

Here's Uniteds':

UAL v. ALPA: Preliminary Injunction

​

The United States District Court has issued a preliminary injunction. to read the Preliminary Injunction Order. The injunction enjoins ALPA, the individual defendants, and all persons and organizations acting by, in concert with, through or under them, or by and through their orders, from calling, permitting, instigating, authorizing, encouraging, participating in, approving or continuing any interference with United's airline operations, including but not limited to any strike, work stoppage, sick-out, slowdown, work to rule campaign, concerted refusal to accept voluntary or overtime flying, or other concerted refusal to perform normal pilot operations in violation of the Railway Labor Act.

The Court has directed that all United pilots resume their normal individual working schedules and practices, and ALPA is hereby instructing all pilots to cease and desist from engaging in any slowdown, sick-out, work to rule campaign, refusal to accept voluntary or overtime flying, or other concerted refusal to conduct pilot operations in the normal manner. With this message ALPA is instructing that you cease and desist all such activity and cease and desist from all statements or communications encouraging such conduct.

We must comply with the Court's direction. This is about all of us, because each of us will be at risk of court fines or company discipline if we engage in any Court-prohibited activity or if we encourage others to do so. Do not engage in any form of sick-out, improper use of sick leave, improper use of fatigue calls, slowdown activity such as intentional delays in the operation, pressure or harassment of other pilots for taking overtime flying, concerted refusal to accept junior/senior manning, or any other form of economic pressure, and do not encourage others to do any of these things. We must resume normal individual working schedules and practices. Again, these are requirements of the Court, and we must comply starting immediately.
​

 

[Capt.Underpants]

Half way up the list in 8 years only including mandatory retirements is as good as it gets. East will remain separate. If you get hired at 27, you will be half way up the list by 35.
Enjoy the dry heat

M

Your pilot group is going to continue to subsidize the operation indefinitely? I think Cleary and Parker are scamming you guys. Wouldn't be suprised to see Cleary living large when this is over. Its the richest raid of pilot income in the history of airlines and you guys are cheering for it. What a bunch of lemmings.

 

[Capt.Underpants]

Yes we know but like Wake did before the next judge will dismiss the company part.

Wake dismissed the company the first time because they hadn't agreed to the DOH scheme dreamt up by USAPA. If the company agrees to it then they will most definitely be included in DFRII.