US Airways snap-back?

[get2flyin]

Hence why it's tied up waiting for the arbitrator.

As most people understand, Airline contracts become amendable at a certain date, and do not "expire" Same with LOA's, UNLESS there is a definitive drop dead date stated.

LOA's and contracts continue into perpetuality until they are replaced with another agreed upon contract.

So, LOA 93 doesn't have an "expiration" date on it, BUT the pay freeze has a specific time frame listed. Why was that?

I believe that's the argument. Inherited management (who wasn't involved) says the dates mean nothing. USAPA says it's a drop dead date.

I suppose when the arbitrator is done with his hip surgery and moving his son to Russia, we will find out....

Well, if USAPA said it you can take it to the bank. They certainly wouldn't be giving the majority group of the membership (*that they exclusively represent) little more than lip service. Besides, the true beauty of the situation is that if the membership thinks the ruling is "unreasonable", just blow it off. Tell anyone who will listen that the company may have beaten USAPA but those scoundrels never honestly represented the poor average East pilot. Hell, have an election and vote in the "ALPUSA" (Air-Line Pilots of USAir) and then say nothing is legally binding. That would TOTALLY work...at least that's what I heard.

 

[Crzipilot]

A little sore on the 9th and the Supreme not hearing your case?!?!?!

What's that legal bill up to yet. 2.75million???

Starting to squirm yet. How long you guys going to let your lawyers to continue billing ya for losing, before you cut him off?

 

[St. Nic]

The westies are finished-once the snap back kicks in we have no reason to even keep the desert boys around. There days are numbered

 

[JetMonkey]

The westies are finished-once the snap back kicks in we have no reason to even keep the desert boys around. There days are numbered

It's good to have dreams. Keep dreamin a$$wipe..

 

[Guppiedriver]

The westies are finished-once the snap back kicks in we have no reason to even keep the desert boys around. Their days are numbered.

There, I fixed it for you. I still think you and MCDU are one and the same. You both make the same grammatical/spelling errors.

 

[abefly]

There, I fixed it for you. I still think you and MCDU are one and the same. You both make the same grammatical/spelling errors.

It's hard for them to type while they are blowing eachother.

 

[charlie2]

One of the strategies concerns the word "freeze". When you bid and are awarded a seat in an aircraft there sometimes is a "freeze" where you can't bid for something else until the end of that time limit to save the company the training costs. But at the end of the "freeze" you don't have to renegotiate the right to bid a new aircraft, you just do it. "Freeze current rates effective 5/01/04 through 12/31/09" we think means at the end of the freeze we don't have to negotiate new rates.

 

[ackattacker]

Makes sense to me. When something is "frozen" for a specified duration that implies that at the end it becomes "thawed". But I'm no contract lawyer.

 

[2ndGenPSA]

Forecast to report a $448M profit for 2010. What's that per pilot... $89,600.
Wow! So when is a new contract going to be negotiated? A $20,000 per pilot raise would cost US Airways about $100M. Less than a quarter of the 2010 profits.
So, (if you're capable) without East vs. West, when is USAPA going to get things moving and negotiate a new contract? WTF???
Question:
Is the rank and file happy with their USAPA leadership?

 

[get2flyin]

A little sore on the 9th and the Supreme not hearing your case?!?!?!

What's that legal bill up to yet. 2.75million???

Starting to squirm yet. How long you guys going to let your lawyers to continue billing ya for losing, before you cut him off?

I'm not trying to start a pissing match with you or anyone else. You have your opinions on the matter and I have mine. Regardless, I can't help but wonder if YOU are a little sore at the fact that USAPA hasn't accomplished ANY of the promises they made about contract implementation prior to the representation election (*unless you consider continuous separate ops a fulfillment of that promise). Furthermore, how long are you going to let USAPA continue billing YOU for losing before you cut THEM off?

The westies are finished-once the snap back kicks in we have no reason to even keep the desert boys around. There days are numbered

First off, exactly who is the "we" that you refer to when you say "we have no reason to even keep the desert boys around". Are you suggesting that the East pilots or USAPA hold West jobs in the balance? That is a somewhat laughable conclusion...about the same as West pilots suggesting they somehow have a say in East pilot employment. What I think should be obvious even to your bitter mind is that in the event you actually DID get some fabulous pay increase, the expansion would suddenly move Westward. All growth international trips would start in Phoenix, if not with West pilots dead heading to CLT and PHL. The bottom line, you'll get choked out.

It's hard for them to type while they are blowing eachother.

Almost spit coffee on my computer. Thanks for laugh..this might be the quote of the day.:laugh:

 

[Crzipilot]

Only promise I was looking forward to was the eradication of ALPA.

That has been accomplished.

I seem to have a more pragmatic view on the things that have happened and understand why we are where we are. A number of maneuvers from both sides and landed us here.

Contract implementation, Company has to come to the table. Kirby proposal isn't close to coming to the table. There won't be a T/A available at all until all the court BS that keeps being filed by the west and the company is settled.

Only thing close to a proposal (which wasn't a t/a it was simply a comprehensive suggestion pushed by the company, can't imagine why) was the kirby POS that is DOA.

Look at what they offered the f/a's. simply their scheduled pay raises 1.5 years early. WOW, I bet they loved that offer......

 

[doh]

The westies are finished-once the snap back kicks in we have no reason to even keep the desert boys around. There days are numbered

"We"? Are you implying that USAPA does not represent the west? If you work for the union, you have provided some strong evidence for DFR litigation.

 

[cactusboy53]

Only promise I was looking forward to was the eradication of ALPA.

That has been accomplished.

I seem to have a more pragmatic view on the things that have happened and understand why we are where we are. A number of maneuvers from both sides and landed us here.

Contract implementation, Company has to come to the table. Kirby proposal isn't close to coming to the table. There won't be a T/A available at all until all the court BS that keeps being filed by the west and the company is settled.

Only thing close to a proposal (which wasn't a t/a it was simply a comprehensive suggestion pushed by the company, can't imagine why) was the kirby POS that is DOA.

Look at what they offered the f/a's. simply their scheduled pay raises 1.5 years early. WOW, I bet they loved that offer......

Crz;
While you may be pleased (for your own reasons) that ALPA is gone, the move to USAPA and the attempt to cram down a Date-of-Hire seniority list has bought us all this delay. The west pilots have had NO choice but to defend our position.

I agree that the Kirby proposal is inadequate, but please remember that as testified in court the company was prepared to pay up to 7-8% in addition to the Kirby proposal. That spells out an additional 10-11% for my wage. That's just under $160 an hour for a narrow body captain (or a 21% increase for an east narrow body captain).

Still not enough for me. But what if as a group we could have negotiated $185 an hour (while oil was BELOW $80 a barrel). This is the hourly wage for Spirit, right?

The chase for the Date-of-Hire leaves us right where we are, with oil rising. If oil goes above $100 a barrel, then I don't think you will see ANY improvements in a joint contract. That is a shame.

One thing can be said for sure. Everyone in this industry is watching this merger like people watch a train wreck. Not sure exactly how it's going to end, but it will cost a butt-load of money for everyone. Contract improvements, cash, 401K contributions, and time off are miles of track behind us (never to be recovered).

 

[Crzipilot]

So then explain the reason the company offered the f/a's absolutely no type of raise other than what they had already negotiated inside a BK contract? You would think the company would want that contract finished too.....

 

[cactusboy53]

So then explain the reason the company offered the f/a's absolutely no type of raise other than what they had already negotiated inside a BK contract? You would think the company would want that contract finished too.....

Per the AFA release in Dec.: A Compensation proposal would simply move up the 2012 East pay rate already negotiated in the current contract and locking that pay scale in for the next 5 years, with no other increases.

The company claims that they want both flight attendants and pilots to finish joint contracts, AND and told our flight attendants that their contract is tied to our joint contract. IMHO, the company could finish the FA's now but is using the excuse of the pilot contract to delay the outlay of $$$. It's not personal, it's just business. The longer the delay, the less to pay.

The proposal also did this to the FA's health care: A Healthcare proposal that would eliminate the 90% and 100% plans providing only an 80% plan for flight attendants, while increasing the deductible to astronomical levels.

This is a negotiation. The FA's are basically negotiating as one body, and the company is attempting to glean the best possible contract for them by making low offers to see if anyone bites. That was just an opening offer. Parker & Kirby will not make a ratifiable offer for another 3-6 attempts (IMHO).

We conversely are two distinct groups that remain in a seniority battle. The larger east is trying to dodge a the product of arbitration, and the smaller west is defending its position on the same product. While still two groups in that respect, we are ONE pilot group. There is no one (within our pilot group) that has the legal authority to negotiate away from the Nicolau award - which is in fact the compromised position regarding the AWA-AAA seniority. USAPA and USAPA supporters have placed the company & our pilot group in the hands of the court systems by failing to honor the Nicolau award.

One side will eventually win (legally), but we are all losers when it comes to lost pay, time off, contract improvements, 401K contributions, etc. On the other hand, LCC is making serious money on our backs (not to mention SSM&P and our legal counsel).

Lurkers: If you are an east pilot, we can make a change. First you have to help unseat USAPA leadership. After that we can vote in a new leadership and change the constitution & rules. We can immediately divert the MILLIONS spent in litigation, and prepare for the next merger with a merger fund. Being short-sighted in the chase for DOH (that will not likely happen), could really cost you if AA, DAL or UAL jump in the merger pool. Stand-up and get involved.

 

[surfnfly]

Lurkers: If you are an east pilot, we can make a change. First you have to help unseat USAPA leadership. After that we can vote in a new leadership and change the constitution & rules. We can immediately divert the MILLIONS spent in litigation, and prepare for the next merger with a merger fund. Being short-sighted in the chase for DOH (that will not likely happen), could really cost you if AA, DAL or UAL jump in the merger pool. Stand-up and get involved.[/QUOTE]

I stood up yesterday with over 200 brothers/sisters in CLT.

 

[cactusboy53]

"surfnfly" wrote: I stood up yesterday with over 200 brothers/sisters in CLT.

Surf;
Good for you on showing solidarity. Your numbers are a little off, though. According to the reporter WCNC, there were an estimated "two or three dozen" pilots. That probably emptied out the USAPA office.

WCNC link: http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Pilo...tion-to-contract-negotiations--114146504.html

James Ray also falsely stated that the seniority dispute is "over". He forgot to mention the remaining litigation for the declaratory action. Thanks for giving it the old college try.

 

[ultrarunner]

Has anyone done the calculation on how many lawyers are going to retire the USAir/AWA/USAir abortion?

I bet the number is significant.

 

[get2flyin]

I stood up yesterday with over 200 brothers/sisters in CLT.

Go get'em tiger! I hope the two or three dozen of you all wore your hats as directed by USAPA. I'm sure the sight of you left the company scrambling to provide an industry leading contract. CARRY ON!

 

[Lampshade]

There won't be a T/A available at all until all the court BS that keeps being filed by the west and the company is settled.

Facts:

1. USAPA was/is purposefully delaying court cases

2. USAPA has publicly said the seniority battle has been won by them, so why no TA?

3. Parker says 2 years or so for new contract.

4. West has no current court case against USAPA yet they say the west are the cause for delay in TA.

5. USAPA negotiating with company has not TA'd any significant sections in over 2 years of talks.

From these facts, USAPA does not want a contract no matter what some of there shills say.