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US Airways Management and America West Pilots to Open Separate Negotiations

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becket said:
I'm no ALPA cheerleader. CAL scabs should have been tarred and feathered. I never said ALPA was perfect However, ALPA does not exist solely to destroy the careers of an entire, (innocent) airline. USAPA is laser focused on nothing but stripping AWA of their rightful seniority, (and nic agreed).

Any attempt to divert attention away from this fact is just towing the scab line. Just because it's huge, doesn't make them innocent. USAPA supporters are nothing but filthy scabs. Believe me when I say the word is getting out.
Click to expand...

You're pretty loose with calling people scabs and just because a group of pissed off pilots are sick of ALPA and want to form their own union does not a scab make. By your definition, the USAPA could call you a scab for simply being anti-USAPA. Your use of the definition is a ridiculous stretch.

I'm with an airline represented by another union and so far, I haven't heard anything, unofficial or otherwise, about not letting USAPA ride our jumpseats because some hothead on a message board deemed them as scabs. Hell, as for refusing jumpseats, I haven't heard any word from ALPA diehards either.

Lighten up Francis.
 
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Soulfly said:
FAR from over.

The Transition Agreement kept our right to section 6 alive and well.

Parker will get pounded by the NMB if he fails to negotiate with us. He has a legal obligation to negatiate with us in good faith. Maybe he will just take a page from the east and blow off a signed legal document.

Actually, I think that would work in our favor.
Click to expand...

Maybe so...but for now, US Airways management has said they will not negotiate with just the "west".

Sooooo...then the west reps file a grievance using the process outlined in their collective bargaining agreement and the Transition agreement....well this is not a 3 day process...it usually takes months...and from what I've read...you guys could very well have completely new representation by mid-April.

Once the new representation is in place...then I guess you'll go through your USAPA reps in PHX/LAS to get this done? ...or will you guys choose to go with no representation?

Will there also be a DFR lawsuit against ALPA?

...and will the "Cactus" call sign prevail?...or is that outlined in the Transition Agreement as well?
 
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waka said:
I'm with an airline represented by another union and so far, I haven't heard anything, unofficial or otherwise, about not letting USAPA ride our jumpseats because some hothead on a message board deemed them as scabs. Hell, as for refusing jumpseats, I haven't heard any word from ALPA diehards either.

Lighten up Francis.
Click to expand...

Hear...Hear !!! The use of the word "scab" has lately been associated with those who have nothing more than a different point of view concerning representation.

As far as refusing jumpseats....I have heard absolutely nothing from my union ( not ALPA) and...even my ALPA buds at UAL, DAL, NWA, CAL and other airlines haven't heard anything from their union reps on this...

As for the use of the word "scab"....there has been no picket line crossed to perform struck work...the word "scab" doesn't apply here...
 
Deadalus said:
Of course Parker wants to wait it out. USAPA went to management and promised to accept cost neutral if the company helps to throw out the arbitration....Parker has to negotiate with the west now and the East gets to enjoy their contract until 2009 + a couple years.
Click to expand...

With the loss of profitability due to oil and recession, it wouldn't surprise me to see Parker try to bring the West pay scales down to the current East pay scales thru the joint contract he's pushing for.

He sees an opportunity from the oil crises to lower costs thru cutting pilot W-2, improving his standing with the BOD and large investors.

Be ready for the joint opener from the company whenever talks start, it could be ugly.

BTW, the higher oil goes, the less leverage you guys have in talks, and it's probably never coming back down.

I know, I'm........SAVAGE!!!
 
A little bird dropped this one in my lap...

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]USAPA News Flash[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]MARCH 16, 2008
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]US Airways, International Association of Machinists Reach Tentative Agreement[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]US Airways and the International Association of Machinists (IAM) recently reached a tentative agreement on a unified contract that moves all US Airways’ maintenance-and-related employees to one labor contract.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The contract, if ratified, would move pre-merger America West (“West”) maintenance and related employees to the higher pay scales of the pre-merger US Airways (“East”) labor contract and modifies the existing East labor agreement in ways that are mutually beneficial to IAM mechanic-and-related employees and the company.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Company stated that unified agreements help fulfill an important goal of our merger, that is, to have each group of our represented employees working as one team with identical pay, benefits and work rules.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In the past, management has stated that it will not strike agreements with its pilots separately. Management requires negotiating with both the East and West pilots jointly.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]USAPA can produce a quality contract sooner than ALPA by immediately fulfilling management’s requirement of single representation of both the East and West pilot groups.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
USAPA, Built by US Airways Pilots, For US Airways Pilots
 
Tejas,

Management doesn't have the right to not negotiate with us. And it is not part of a grievance process either......

You should know this. It is managed by the NMB. If the company fails to comply with a section 6 notification then the NMB can take any number of options, including declaring an impasse.
Don't you think section 6 was filed before the vote for a reason?

Oh yes, and btw if USAPA does get in, they will be required to proceed with section 6 negotiations. It's the law. Oh yeah, I forgot maybe us stupid AWA pilots will just let them blow that off as well.

And the "Cactus" call sign issue you brought up makes me laugh. No it is isn't "outlined in the TA", and that wasn't the topic we were discussing, nor does it have anything to do with the RLA or section 6 negotiations for either party.

It clearly shows which side of the fence you stand on with an assinine statement like that....
 
waka said:
You're pretty loose with calling people scabs and just because a group of pissed off pilots are sick of ALPA and want to form their own union does not a scab make.
Click to expand...

If USAPA was just about getting out of ALPA that would be one thing, but USAPA is more about changing the seniority integaration at the "New USAirways". The clear intent of USAPA, as far as I see it, is to negate the binding arbitration list integration.

If USAPA come on the property, but the Nic award stand, well that is fair enough, if the integration is changed, that is something entirely different.

If a splinter group had decertified ALPA at CAL, formed their own union and negotiated a new agreement with Frankie in order to cross the picketline, would they then still have been scabs?
 
Dizel8 said:
If a splinter group had decertified ALPA at CAL, formed their own union and negotiated a new agreement with Frankie in order to cross the picketline, would they then still have been scabs?
Click to expand...

Yes...as long as they were performing struck work
 
....when the America West pilots were threatening to leave ALPA....Duane Woerth brought a scab with him to PHX to try and talk the America West pilots out of leaving ALPA.....There is so much irony here...where to begin......
 
JoeMerchant said:
Didn't ALPA file a lawsuit against the binding arbitration in the Alaska arbitration.....I guess "binding is binding" only applies when ALPA agrees.....
Click to expand...

Joe;
That was between an employer and an ALPA represented group.

The ALPA Merger policy is "hands-off", so as to keep ALPA National in a neutral position. The merger policy has been called vague, but IF cooler minds prevail a fair and equitable list can be achieved through negotiations or mediation. Unfortunately, cooler minds rarely prevail.

In this instance, one party went in with an approximate relative seniority stance with fences. The other party sang to the high heavens for DOH and or LOS. They were advised time and time again that they would not be awarded DOH or LOS if the case went to arbitration.

Finally, according to ALPA Merger policy: ALPA National is to ACCEPT THE FINAL AND BINDING LIST, DELIVER THE LIST AND DEFEND THE LIST.

While we now fight over union representation at the new LCC, the window for significant contract improvements has quite nearly closed.....all for that most important Date of Hire! How unfortunate.....:(
 
I heard that the call sign issue has been cleared up. Here's the new call sign:

CACTUSFOLLOWSOUTHWEST
 
cactusboy53 said:
Joe;
That was between an employer and an ALPA represented group.
Click to expand...

I understand that....but it was still a case of ALPA opposing a "binding arbitration"......If something harms you...you will still fight it regardless of "binding arbitration".....Did the USAir MEC make mistakes over the years....You bet....
 
JoeMerchant said:
I understand that....but it was still a case of ALPA opposing a "binding arbitration"......If something harms you...you will still fight it regardless of "binding arbitration".....Did the USAir MEC make mistakes over the years....You bet....
Click to expand...

recall this is all based on your perception of "right". but more importantly if your perception of "right" is not agreed upon, then you pack marbles and go home....
 
Doesn't a scab try to take unfair advantage of a pilot who is fully participating in the established union's activity and do irreparable harm to that pilot? Doesn't a scab circumvent the established union's mandate so as to advance their career over that of a fellow union member?

If you don't want to call a USAPA supporter a scab, then don't. But you can't ignore what they're doing.
 
Bringupthebird said:
Doesn't a scab try to take unfair advantage of a pilot who is fully participating in the established union's activity and do irreparable harm to that pilot? Doesn't a scab circumvent the established union's mandate so as to advance their career over that of a fellow union member?

If you don't want to call a USAPA supporter a scab, then don't. But you can't ignore what they're doing.
Click to expand...

....they have a disagreement with ALPA.....much like you have had in the past.....
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=951077#post951077
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
Trying to convert everyone to your misery? One poster at a time.... At least a Jetstream 32 did it 19 people at a time....
Click to expand...

....no that title belongs to you...

I'm not miserable....things are going just about as predicted...It is some of you ALPA cheerleaders that seem like your about to blow a gasket over things....
 
Here's a little joke to perhaps lighten this thread up a bit.

Do you know what a USAPA pilot likes to F' more than the hottest, sexiest, most adventurous, chick on the planet???





Another pilot!!!!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
JoeMerchant said:
....no that title belongs to you...

I'm not miserable....things are going just about as predicted...It is some of you ALPA cheerleaders that seem like your about to blow a gasket over things....
Click to expand...


And you like how things are going as predicted?
 
Joey Bagodonutz said:
It's pretty obvious to most people in this industry that the USAPA supporters are involved in "scab like activity".
Click to expand...

Not really...they have a disagreement with their union...and they have had enough.

Now they want different representation...

...and no one has crossed a picket line...
 
Nope, they are just trying to screw over the AWA pilots. Plain and simple. Has nothing to do with ALPA.

In fact all the pilots that have legitimate beefs with ALPA should be po'd at usapa for degrading their legitimacy.
 
When I had my disagreement with ALPA did I decide to take revenge on an entire pilot group? No.

USAPA and perspective. Like oil and water.
 
Those mid-80's hires at AAA didn't have to fly RJ's in our scoped out world. Many AAA pilots were hired in 1986 at a very young age (mid-20's) flying Fokkers around- Then chose to sell out the next generation by releasing scope. Many of those 2003 hires were flying pretty big jets on mainline routes w/ mainline passengers for years before getting an opportunity at AWA. Noone looked out for their seniority and you want the West to think that your seniority is SO valuable? The only difference is that you lived in a world where your Fokker flying wasn't contracted out to a sh!tty commuter airline. Seniority is a VERY fluid thing in this screwed up world we created. But the solution is a national list- not further division.
 
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waveflyer said:
Those mid-80's hires at AAA didn't have to fly RJ's in our scoped out world. Many AAA pilots were hired in 1986 at a very young age (mid-20's) flying Fokkers around- Then chose to sell out the next generation by releasing scope. Many of those 2003 hires were flying pretty big jets on mainline routes w/ mainline passengers for years before getting an opportunity at AWA. Noone looked out for their seniority and you want the West to think that your seniority is SO valuable? The only difference is that you lived in a world where your Fokker flying wasn't contracted out to a sh!tty commuter airline. Seniority is a VERY fluid thing in this screwed up world we created. But the solution is a national list- not further division.
Click to expand...

History check.....actually the AAA pilots were the last to give up RJ scope....But that only hurt them in the long run as other carriers (especially DAL) had the RJs to attack AAA turpoprops and one third full mainline planes.....
 

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