US Airways Final Recalls: Take it, or Leave it?

[The Victors]

Good luck to those of you that return to that place. Something that should have grabbed my attention back when I accepted a offer in 99 is that the company (east us air alone) hadn't had a profitable year since like 88.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Where are you now Victors?

 

[The Victors]

Fortunately, swa.

 

[Swaayze]

Swaayze? Drop me a pm and let me know what you decided.

Still on the fence. So tired of making bad decisions (in hindsight, of course) that I'd rather not decide. Pretty sure I know deep down but I'm having a hard time. Figure I got a couple more days 'til I have to give notice at my current employer if I'm going back, so I'll let you know then I guess.

Crazee8 what did you do?

 

[crazee8]

Crazee8 what did you do?

I have my "No Thanks" letter in my Drafts folder of Outlook. I just haven't sent it yet - but as soon as I get back to my desktop - I will.

I am in a good position right now and going back to US would be a 50ish% paycut. Although I would live in base, I'm unable to find reasons that would justify taking a 50% paycut. Job stability? US has shown no hesitation in the past to lay off, and do it quickly. I just don't see any future there right now - and even if I did, I could not handle being an FO for 18 years. I haven't even started on how bad morale must be.

Spouse just quit UAL (after 12 years in management) for a government job and isn't looking back. Doesn't seem logical for me to return to a legacy when I know how effed up UAL is (and I do mean effed up) and would never work there. I would imagine that US is more effed up than UAL because of the merger.

So, my answer is - based on the new realities of 2007 - I'm not going back.

You just have to decide which situation would be less effed up for you because I guarantee neither is perfect.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Every time I think to myself, "Ok. Decision made. I'm just going to stay here.", I start to second guess.

I wonder, "Will this flight department exist for another 25 years?"

"Will a bean counter take over the CEO spot and decide to outsource the flying to fractionals?"

"Will the company cut back on aviation and park airplanes -- and if they do, will they lay-off in seniority order?"

"Will a new director of Aviation take over who decides to cut costs by adding more overnights and less ferry-legs?" (schedule is the #1 reason to stay where i'm at)

"If any of the above happen -- what will I do next?"

Seniority is everything. If I ever was to decide to make the jump back into airlines, the sooner I do so the better.

I could go back to US Airways and have instant seniority (albeit only a little bit), apply at another airline and, if hired, start over again, or wait here until such time that things start to look like they're falling apart and THEN pursue employment elsewhere.

I didn't realize how comfortable I had gotten having that USAir "insurance policy" in my back pocket.

 

[General Lee]

Every time I think to myself, "Ok. Decision made. I'm just going to stay here.", I start to second guess.

I wonder, "Will this flight department exist for another 25 years?"

"Will a bean counter take over the CEO spot and decide to outsource the flying to fractionals?"

"Will the company cut back on aviation and park airplanes -- and if they do, will they lay-off in seniority order?"

"Will a new director of Aviation take over who decides to cut costs by adding more overnights and less ferry-legs?" (schedule is the #1 reason to stay where i'm at)

"If any of the above happen -- what will I do next?"

Seniority is everything. If I ever was to decide to make the jump back into airlines, the sooner I do so the better.

I could go back to US Airways and have instant seniority (albeit only a little bit), apply at another airline and, if hired, start over again, or wait here until such time that things start to look like they're falling apart and THEN pursue employment elsewhere.

I didn't realize how comfortable I had gotten having that USAir "insurance policy" in my back pocket.

Just go back. You have a Lear Type and experience, so you can go back to that if needed. Get yourself strapped into an A319 or E190 and get back into it. Also, don't commute. Move to a large base.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Still on the fence. So tired of making bad decisions (in hindsight, of course) that I'd rather not decide. Pretty sure I know deep down but I'm having a hard time. Figure I got a couple more days 'til I have to give notice at my current employer if I'm going back, so I'll let you know then I guess.

Crazee8 what did you do?

Go back. Why stay at Eagle? Try to get CLT as a base and fly something there. If you live in DFW you could try a commute, but I would think living in a large base would be better for your family. Bail from Eagle and hope for the best. You can always go back to Eagle or fly corporate eventually if things went south again.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FurloughedAgain]

General,

While I appreciate your advice, I don't believe you are seeing the entire picture. You lack the experience of working for US Airways and the associated uncertainty.

You lack the experience of working for my current flight department (which can not be compared with any run-of-the mill Learjet operator. It's a Fortune 500 company whose quality of life far exceeds that found in 99% of the corporate, fractional, or charter operators out there.)

I also question any airline pilot who tells me, "You could just go fly corporate". It doesn't work that way. There is a strong aversion to airline pilots within the corporate world. Only those who are very lucky manage to find a good corporate job after having worked for an airline. There are dozens of threads on the Corporate section of this website about airline guys desperately trying to break into corporate. If you leave corporate and go BACK to an airline, your resume will speak for itself. No reputable flight department will hire you when you've shown that your loyalties truly remain at the airlines.

I appreciate you trying to help, but i'm a little frustrated with people saying "Just go back" without providing me with any evidence that doing so would be anything more than gambling (again) with my family's future.

 

[Swaayze]

Go back. Why stay at Eagle? Try to get CLT as a base and fly something there. If you live in DFW you could try a commute, but I would think living in a large base would be better for your family. Bail from Eagle and hope for the best. You can always go back to Eagle or fly corporate eventually if things went south again.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Well that's just it. We simply aren't moving and I just really don't think going back with the intent of commuting for 20-25 years is a very wise decision for my family with 2 young kids at home. This is already my second time at Eagle (I don't think I could start over here a third), and I've put up with an awful lot in the last 6 years (2 furloughs, 1 CH7, 4 jobs, a 2 leg commute at Eagle after being told we'd have DFW slots in my newhire class, etc) to get to the point I'm at now: holding 2-day trips and driving 20 mins to work. Obviously the pay issue makes it very difficult here but I'm having trouble finding ANY other reason to return to U (besides maybe a little SJS for the 757).

And, I agree totally with FA on the corporate thing. Don't think I haven't tried that route and met with nothing but a couple of nibbles and a high degree of skepticism about my intent. If you aren't well connected you can forget it as a current/furloughed airline guy.

Thanks for the input, really. I need all the help I can get!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

What's your pay at eagle vs going back to US?

If you go back at 4 year FO pay plus the 1500 for every year, couple that with the attrition East will have, you might be looking at something worthwhile.

I personally think you should come back.

 

[General Lee]

General,

While I appreciate your advice, I don't believe you are seeing the entire picture. You lack the experience of working for US Airways and the associated uncertainty.

You lack the experience of working for my current flight department (which can not be compared with any run-of-the mill Learjet operator. It's a Fortune 500 company whose quality of life far exceeds that found in 99% of the corporate, fractional, or charter operators out there.)

I also question any airline pilot who tells me, "You could just go fly corporate". It doesn't work that way. There is a strong aversion to airline pilots within the corporate world. Only those who are very lucky manage to find a good corporate job after having worked for an airline. There are dozens of threads on the Corporate section of this website about airline guys desperately trying to break into corporate. If you leave corporate and go BACK to an airline, your resume will speak for itself. No reputable flight department will hire you when you've shown that your loyalties truly remain at the airlines.

I appreciate you trying to help, but i'm a little frustrated with people saying "Just go back" without providing me with any evidence that doing so would be anything more than gambling (again) with my family's future.

It will eat away at your brain if you don't go. I have seen numbers saying there will be around 1 billion passengers domestically by 2010, up from 700 or 800 million a year now. To say that USAir won't be flying some of them is wrong. They have too good of a route structure (mainly East Coast, with a good PHX and LAS hub too) to not be a player. I don't think Virgin America or Skybus will make a dent, primarily because they can't get enough slots into the airports people want to fly into (DCA, LGA, ORD, etc). I think USAir will be around, with most legacies. There could be a merger or two, but not much downsizing I don't think, unless there is another 9-11. Your corporate job could easily get swiped from you in favor of a fractional operator. It happens all of the time since they(your company) don't have to offer benefits to fractional pilots. But, it is up to you.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PositiveRate]

Furloughed,

I hate to agree with the General, but you're going to regret not coming back.

This is the right point in the cycle to get back in. You will likely be flying whatever aircraft you want within a year or two. Combine that with a move close to base and life will be just fine.

Man up and make a decision. When you taxi past a learjet in a US 767 or similar you will not look up and wonder 'what if'. Flip the scenario and it will eat you up each and every time.

 

[FLYLOW22]

This thread now sounds like a few crack addicts trying to lure in another one.

USAIR. Just say no.

 

[General Lee]

Well that's just it. We simply aren't moving and I just really don't think going back with the intent of commuting for 20-25 years is a very wise decision for my family with 2 young kids at home. This is already my second time at Eagle (I don't think I could start over here a third), and I've put up with an awful lot in the last 6 years (2 furloughs, 1 CH7, 4 jobs, a 2 leg commute at Eagle after being told we'd have DFW slots in my newhire class, etc) to get to the point I'm at now: holding 2-day trips and driving 20 mins to work. Obviously the pay issue makes it very difficult here but I'm having trouble finding ANY other reason to return to U (besides maybe a little SJS for the 757).

And, I agree totally with FA on the corporate thing. Don't think I haven't tried that route and met with nothing but a couple of nibbles and a high degree of skepticism about my intent. If you aren't well connected you can forget it as a current/furloughed airline guy.

Thanks for the input, really. I need all the help I can get!

I don't think a commute from DFW to CLT (or PHX eventually) would be that bad. If you simply had to commute for family reasons, DFW is in the middle of the country and is about 2-3 hours from anywhere. If you lived in LA and had to commute to PHL, that might really suk.

Will there ever be a furlough like we both (US and DL) had after 9-11? I hope not. It could happen though, but I would think the odds are against it. If you have some seniority and can get in there and have 500 behind you eventually, that could probably be a good cushion, barring another 9-11. Again, it is up to you.

Bye Bye--General Lee