US Airways Final Recalls: Take it, or Leave it?

[nwaredtail]

AWA had guys on furlough in early 2002, they all expected to return due to the projected retirements, people leaving, growth. So did the EAST furloughees. (my wife) But that was all put on hold and they are paying the price. 280 cancelled flights last Thurs alone. Wait til the summer hits.

Good luck USAIR

Let us ponder,

AWA - didn't give away all their scope to save their pensions (didnt really have one), thus returning their fellow pilots to work.

USAIR - gave away scope, established a c scale (Mid-Atlantic), sold it, screwed their junior guys in order to save their pension (didn't seem to work), wouldn't work with AWA's Merger committee, or arbitrator, etc. Parked dozens, if not 100's of Narrowbodies. THAT IS WHY YOUR WIFE IS NOT BACK AT WORK. AWA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Pondering done. Don't feel bad, the NWA guys did the same thing, except the pension was saved.

 

[AV80R]

Thanks. As a matter of fact, shortly after the furlough I wrote a series of articles (2 about furlough-planning, 1 about how to be a good Captain) for Career Pilot Magazine (Kit Darby's rag).

I'm always looking for other opportunities to write, but they're tough to come by.

Well, keep writing and eventually I'm sure you'll find a venue for your second talent (flying being the first one)

 

[Swaayze]

Man, I had hoped I wouldn't be forced to make this decision this year. I have about 600 below me on the APL but apparently they're already on the way back up the list with 82 slots left to fill and now projecting another 50-100 recalls this year as well as hiring off the street for the 190 in the next couple of months. With the pilots being held at J4J carriers it would not surprise me in the least to have to decide very soon.

Anyone else think this could be deja vu all over again for U furloughees? Seems like a new wave of merger talk is in the air and if LCC is a participant then wouldn't everyone accepting recall now just be furlough fodder again? Hate to be paranoid and/or speculative but it is something to consider I think.

Money is really the only draw for me to go back. It would mean decades of commuting but a much nicer bank account. I think I'm simply in the wrong line of work now that I have a family I enjoy, as I'm not very willing to do what it takes anymore to grab at the very tarnished brass ring. I will probably not return to LCC, instead likely becoming an "Eagle lifer loser". Most everyone cannot seem to fathom this decision, but it seems strangely clear to me (as clear as passing up my supposed dreams can be anyway). It's very hard to consider not going back; I guess we'll see when the call comes if I can stick to my guns.

Good luck to all in your decisions!

 

[BeCareful!]

Good luck with it, Swaayze.

There's just no rational explanation for all you've been through in the past six years. Who'da thought ASA was going to pull out of DFW? Who'da thought AirWisky would divorce United and throw a monkey wrench in the scope machine? Who'da thought GPAir would go out of business? Just kidding, we all knew that was going to tank!

But I'll tell ya, you won't hear any advice from me on going back. The stakes are very high for you with a young family. You can never get these years back if you give them away to the airlines, and we both know you won't even receive a "thank you" from management for your sacrifice.

Be at peace, Brother!

 

[sonny320]

MCDU;
I don't know about discrace, but I do know this:
1. AAA MC and MEC had lots of opportunity to NEGOTIATE a merged list, but they stuck with DOH and LOS.
2. AAA MC and MEC were instructed by the mediator/arbitrator (that they had a 50% share is selection) that DOH was NOT a tenable position.
3. During the arbitration phase, the mediator strongly suggested AGAIN that DOH was a non-starter.

My MC and MEC fought long and hard in a fair arbitration process to protect the AWA pilots relative seniority. They largely suceeded. The first 517 slots went to AAA pilots - DOH & LOS. Good for you. Our number one pilot got slot 518, resulting in a hefty loss of relative seniority.

In the past two years of debate the East has grown, upgraded and recalled pilots while all growth has ceased as a result of this business move. Again, good for you.

I would say the windfall goes both ways.

FYI:

The first 517 did go to the East but all those guys will be out (retire in 3 years or less). So the # 1 AWA (#518 on the list) will be sitting pretty in 3 years!!

 

[vetrider]

FYI:

The first 517 did go to the East but all those guys will be out (retire in 3 years or less). So the # 1 AWA (#518 on the list) will be sitting pretty in 3 years!!

Thats not entirely accurate, a good many of the east 517 were born from the early to the late 50s, a few as late as 58 and 59. Meanwhile, west number 1 retires this month.

For that matter, we have west fos who are older than many of the 517, and some who will never upgrade. Somehow that never seems to get much press.

 

[Green]

FYI:

The first 517 did go to the East but all those guys will be out (retire in 3 years or less). So the # 1 AWA (#518 on the list) will be sitting pretty in 3 years!!

You have no idea what you are talking about.....The #1 AWA pilot has already retired. Get your facts straight. The rabid blather from the east has completely overshadowed the facts. AWA pilots are not that much younger on average than AAA. Sure we have a few young guys at the bottom but we have many more at the bottom who have worked for 3 or 4+ airlines before coming here. The east BS is getting old...

 

[Green]

I will probably not return to LCC, instead likely becoming an "Eagle lifer loser". Most everyone cannot seem to fathom this decision, but it seems strangely clear to me (as clear as passing up my supposed dreams can be anyway). It's very hard to consider not going back; I guess we'll see when the call comes if I can stick to my guns.

Good luck to all in your decisions!

What??? That there is crazy talk...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Is it? He lives in Dallas. He could hang on to relative seniority at Eagle, bid short trips, spend time at home with family or....

... commute to Philly, spend his life in a crashpad, never see his family.

Doesn't sound so crazy to me.

 

[Green]

Is it? He lives in Dallas. He could hang on to relative seniority at Eagle, bid short trips, spend time at home with family or....

... commute to Philly, spend his life in a crashpad, never see his family.

Doesn't sound so crazy to me.

maybe ....who knows? If it was me and I was looking for quality of life I would pass on the narrowbodies and accept the 190. He/she could get real senior real quick and commute with 17-19 days off per month and 21 days of vacation per year (assuming new contract with AWA vac). It would be a huge payraise from Eagle FO pay plus he/she would be looking at a better 401k and more future advancement as seniority permits. But.....to each his own and Us Airways has generally been a bad call over the years so I would understand any reluctance to ever return...

 

[BeCareful!]

The rabid blather from the east has completely overshadowed the facts. ..

Green,

Plenty of "rabid blather" from PHX and LAS as well....

The West BS got old two years ago.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

What is the 401K match at AWA? Because right now, my understanding is that there is no match at USAirways and a 10% b-fund?

I still haven't heard about the health insurance, the commuter policy, etc.

What is the relative seniority of each of the east bases? Could a Jan 99 recall guy hold Boston? Charlotte? PIT? (anywhere but Philly?)

Do any of the domiciles have a lot of 1 day trips? (I think the shuttle pairings used to be 1-days, didn't they?) How senior are those?

It's hard to make a decision with virtually no information.

 

[TWA Dude]

What is the 401K match at AWA? Because right now, my understanding is that there is no match at USAirways and a 10% b-fund?

There used to be 401k matching at AWA but they realigned it to a 10% company contribution to our 401k fund. That essentially makes the 401k a combined B-fund.

 

[trainer8]

What is the 401K match at AWA? Because right now, my understanding is that there is no match at USAirways and a 10% b-fund?

I still haven't heard about the health insurance, the commuter policy, etc.

What is the relative seniority of each of the east bases? Could a Jan 99 recall guy hold Boston? Charlotte? PIT? (anywhere but Philly?)

Do any of the domiciles have a lot of 1 day trips? (I think the shuttle pairings used to be 1-days, didn't they?) How senior are those?

It's hard to make a decision with virtually no information.

THat info is available I believe on the ALPA web site/Member Only link. Go to the AAA link that should get you access to important info. If you cannot access the site, there is a phone number on the web page for Member services. If you tell them you are furloughed APL and you need info regarding recall, they will activate your username and password to get access to info on the site. You can also e-mail the Furlough Administrator for info at [email protected]

PHL is the only domicele that I know of that has regularly scheduled out and backs on the E190. As more aircraft are delivered, the out and backs should dwindle away. The same happened at MDA when they took deliveries of the E170.

T8

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Super. I can send yet another email to the furlough administrator that he will take weeks to respond to or ignore entirely.

 

[trainer8]

Super. I can send yet another email to the furlough administrator that he will take weeks to respond to or ignore entirely.

Suit yourself....

 

[Green]

Green,

Plenty of "rabid blather" from PHX and LAS as well....

The West BS got old two years ago.

I'd love to hear an example of West threats because I can't think of one...

 

[PHXFLYR]

Suit yourself....

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Swaayze]

maybe ....who knows? If it was me and I was looking for quality of life I would pass on the narrowbodies and accept the 190. He/she could get real senior real quick and commute with 17-19 days off per month and 21 days of vacation per year (assuming new contract with AWA vac). It would be a huge payraise from Eagle FO pay plus he/she would be looking at a better 401k and more future advancement as seniority permits. But.....to each his own and Us Airways has generally been a bad call over the years so I would understand any reluctance to ever return...

Good points, and honestly if I decide to return I'll probably try to go to the 190 for just those reasons. The problem is that the pay rate is NOT a signifcant increase, about $11/hr. I can easily fly 85-90 at Eagle, be home much more and come out close to even with LCC E190 pay, even considering the higher company contribution for retirement. A couple of years out I should be a Captain at Eagle with 3 weeks vacation and a 5.25% match to my 401k. We live fairly modestly and can do well with that, though it is admittedly low compensation given the job we do. With an upgrade to G2 planes at LCC likely more than 10 years out for furloughees, I think many of us have a harder decision than it would seem. The real wrench for me in going back is that we have no desire to move and circumstances pretty much dictate that we're here in DFW for some time to come, otherwise I'm sure I'd go back. Your last sentence is very on point. Oh, and btw, to make a decision based on assumed contractual gains for East right now is not very wise IMO. I was hopeful that there would be a new contract prior to the last calls, but that's a pipe dream now.

 

[Swaayze]

What is the 401K match at AWA? Because right now, my understanding is that there is no match at USAirways and a 10% b-fund?

I still haven't heard about the health insurance, the commuter policy, etc.

What is the relative seniority of each of the east bases? Could a Jan 99 recall guy hold Boston? Charlotte? PIT? (anywhere but Philly?)

Do any of the domiciles have a lot of 1 day trips? (I think the shuttle pairings used to be 1-days, didn't they?) How senior are those?

It's hard to make a decision with virtually no information.

Company contribution at East is 10% B-fund, no 401k match. No commuter policy according to 3rd hand info. UHC insurance, no idea of the details/costs.

I think you could probably hold about any base pretty quickly with all the attrition, and I don't think you'll see more than a very few West folks come to the right seat on the East coast. Who knows about the trips? All I'm certain of is that I wouldn't be going back to my wonderful QOL on MetroJet with 26 hr 4-days, commutable both ends, most often with 16 hour overnites in BOS, LGA, MCO, FLL, etc that often consisted of happy flt and cabin crews RnRing together at the local establishments!