US Airways Final Recalls: Take it, or Leave it?

[FurloughedAgain]

Deuce,
I assume those positions will disappear in the winter when the intl schedule is drawn down. What are the current displacement provisions in the contract?

 

[LittleDeuce]

A-330

Deuce,
I assume those positions will disappear in the winter when the intl schedule is drawn down. What are the current displacement provisions in the contract?

Not sure about that and I am to lazy to look it up. This is a different time then when we were here in 1999-2001. We are short big time. B-767 International F/O's are in high demand. We will be hiring off the street in August.

 

[w_lloughby]

An Answer to the earlier queston of seat lock. 12 Months GII..........18 Months E190. Keep the input coming guys, this is all great input and exccellent discussion.

 

[LittleDeuce]

Seat Lock

An Answer to the earlier queston of seat lock. 12 Months GII..........18 Months E190. Keep the input coming guys, this is all great input and exccellent discussion.

Sorry, its the other way around. The seat lock for the E190 is 12 months and 18 months for group II or better.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Can anyone else talk about health benefits? And retirement? I see from Airlinepilotcentral that there is no 401K matching but it says there is a "B-fund". Can someone explain what a B-fund is? Also, is there a commuter clause in the contract? And, finally, how junior is the Boston crewbase?

 

[LearLove]

Can anyone else talk about health benefits? And retirement? I see from Airlinepilotcentral that there is no 401K matching but it says there is a "B-fund". Can someone explain what a B-fund is? Also, is there a commuter clause in the contract? And, finally, how junior is the Boston crewbase?

B-fund is 10% of your gross into an account like the 401k (or it is the same 401 account) where you can invest it. thats how it was explained to me by the furlough admin. (DC).

 

[trainer8]

Here is a question to CEL pilots. Just out of curiosity do you think your recall to mainline was accelerated or hindered by the Nicalau award? Personally I think the Nicalau award helped the CEL pilots. The fact that so many furloughed original mainline pilots have turned down the recall out of percieved injustices has accelerated the calls down the list and makes it less likely that furloughees will accept recalls and come in senior to you..

A little of both...

We stayed on the US Airways System Seniority List which he confirmed and paid little regard at the AWA MEC's attempt to have us removed from the list and the airline.

At the same time, all CEL at MDA were active US Airways pilots at the time of the merger, which he totally ignored.

Regardless, we ended up pretty much where we should be on the list.

T8

 

[MCDU]

Never forget the fact that your Alpa brothers in the West did not want you at US Airways ( the suriviving certificate). even though you were actively flying as a mainline pilot an E 170 operated by US Airways at the time of merger. You brought alot of converted E 190 orders to your dance.
What a disgrace the way AWA ALPA feels about you guys.

Marty

 

[Green]

A little of both...


At the same time, all CEL at MDA were active US Airways pilots at the time of the merger, which he totally ignored.

Regardless, we ended up pretty much where we should be on the list.

T8

What do you mean he totaly ignored your active status? He placed you at the bottom of the list and guaranteed your recall. Now you are offered the choice of accepting a mainline position which would have never happened in 2007 without the merger. Not a bad deal....Of course whether or not a career at LCC will be worth a dam# still remains to be seen.

 

[get2flyin]

Never forget the fact that your Alpa brothers in the West did not want you at US Airways ( the suriviving certificate). even though you were actively flying as a mainline pilot an E 170 operated by US Airways at the time of merger. You brought alot of converted E 190 orders to your dance.
What a disgrace the way AWA ALPA feels about you guys.

Marty

If they were mainline pilots, why didn't they bid off of the E 170 to an Airbus? Because they were furloughed and didn't work for USAirways. AAA ALPA gave everybody the finger and insisted on DOH with zero wiggle room. What you did to yourselves was a disgrace.

Oh yeah..Wasn't this thread US Airways recalls: Take it or Leave it? Marty, you seem to have gotten a little off topic. Best of luck in whatever direction the future takes the rest of you.

 

[TWA Dude]

Never forget the fact that your Alpa brothers in the West did not want you at US Airways ( the suriviving certificate).

I disagree; you're being emotional by encouraging them to be angry for the rest of their careers. It wasn't personal! I didn't agree with our MC's proposal to drop the CEL pilots but you don't see me saying I'm angry with every USAirways (East) pilot because they proposed an integration that screwed me. Even with the crap going on today I would never take out any anger on random East pilots I pass in the hallway. Nor did I do that during the TWA/AA stuff. Emotionalism does us no good.

 

[trainer8]

I disagree; you're being emotional by encouraging them to be angry for the rest of their careers. It wasn't personal! I didn't agree with our MC's proposal to drop the CEL pilots but you don't see me saying I'm angry with every USAirways (East) pilot because they proposed an integration that screwed me. Even with the crap going on today I would never take out any anger on random East pilots I pass in the hallway. Nor did I do that during the TWA/AA stuff. Emotionalism does us no good.

No doubt about the emotions. Pull out the document and read your MEC's reference to those 100 pilots. There is a little difference between keepng your job and having another pilot group request an arbitrator to officially have you removed from the airline.

T8

 

[Lampshade]

Deuce,
I assume those positions will disappear in the winter when the intl schedule is drawn down. What are the current displacement provisions in the contract?

Back to the E190 with 50% paycut...noooooo!

 

[waazzuuuup!!]

FurloughedAgain is your Dad's name Jack Murphy?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

No, but John was in my class.

 

[waazzuuuup!!]

Ok. Just checking.

As a may 99 date of hire, I had the good furtune of flying with his dad Capt John Murphy on my Frankfurt IOE which was my first North Atlantic crossing.

A true gentleman!

I too have decided not to go back. It was nice while it lasted. NOT LOOKING BACK!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AV80R]

That was without a doubt the best narrative ever written on this board. My hope is the best for you and your family and the rest of the USAir family as they are faced with a similar decision.

Agree 100%

Furloughed, maybe you should look into writing some aviation related articles as a second career? You seem to be very talented with the written word…

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Thanks. As a matter of fact, shortly after the furlough I wrote a series of articles (2 about furlough-planning, 1 about how to be a good Captain) for Career Pilot Magazine (Kit Darby's rag).

I'm always looking for other opportunities to write, but they're tough to come by.

 

[cactusboy53]

MCDU;
I don't know about discrace, but I do know this:
1. AAA MC and MEC had lots of opportunity to NEGOTIATE a merged list, but they stuck with DOH and LOS.
2. AAA MC and MEC were instructed by the mediator/arbitrator (that they had a 50% share is selection) that DOH was NOT a tenable position.
3. During the arbitration phase, the mediator strongly suggested AGAIN that DOH was a non-starter.

My MC and MEC fought long and hard in a fair arbitration process to protect the AWA pilots relative seniority. They largely suceeded. The first 517 slots went to AAA pilots - DOH & LOS. Good for you. Our number one pilot got slot 518, resulting in a hefty loss of relative seniority.

In the past two years of debate the East has grown, upgraded and recalled pilots while all growth has ceased as a result of this business move. Again, good for you.

I would say the windfall goes both ways.

 

[MCDU]

No growth, just attrition. USair had more planes at the time of merger. I do not believe the 517 should have gotten those first slots. They should have just fenced of all widebodies.

Take into account that the East is cancelling flights due to a lack of recalls that should have happened years ago. They are severly understaffed.

AWA had guys on furlough in early 2002, they all expected to return due to the projected retirements, people leaving, growth. So did the EAST furloughees. (my wife) But that was all put on hold and they are paying the price. 280 cancelled flights last Thurs alone. Wait til the summer hits.

Good luck USAIR

Marty

 

[nwaredtail]

AWA had guys on furlough in early 2002, they all expected to return due to the projected retirements, people leaving, growth. So did the EAST furloughees. (my wife) But that was all put on hold and they are paying the price. 280 cancelled flights last Thurs alone. Wait til the summer hits.

Good luck USAIR

Let us ponder,

AWA - didn't give away all their scope to save their pensions (didnt really have one), thus returning their fellow pilots to work.

USAIR - gave away scope, established a c scale (Mid-Atlantic), sold it, screwed their junior guys in order to save their pension (didn't seem to work), wouldn't work with AWA's Merger committee, or arbitrator, etc. Parked dozens, if not 100's of Narrowbodies. THAT IS WHY YOUR WIFE IS NOT BACK AT WORK. AWA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Pondering done. Don't feel bad, the NWA guys did the same thing, except the pension was saved.

 

[AV80R]

Thanks. As a matter of fact, shortly after the furlough I wrote a series of articles (2 about furlough-planning, 1 about how to be a good Captain) for Career Pilot Magazine (Kit Darby's rag).

I'm always looking for other opportunities to write, but they're tough to come by.

Well, keep writing and eventually I'm sure you'll find a venue for your second talent (flying being the first one)

 

[Swaayze]

Man, I had hoped I wouldn't be forced to make this decision this year. I have about 600 below me on the APL but apparently they're already on the way back up the list with 82 slots left to fill and now projecting another 50-100 recalls this year as well as hiring off the street for the 190 in the next couple of months. With the pilots being held at J4J carriers it would not surprise me in the least to have to decide very soon.

Anyone else think this could be deja vu all over again for U furloughees? Seems like a new wave of merger talk is in the air and if LCC is a participant then wouldn't everyone accepting recall now just be furlough fodder again? Hate to be paranoid and/or speculative but it is something to consider I think.

Money is really the only draw for me to go back. It would mean decades of commuting but a much nicer bank account. I think I'm simply in the wrong line of work now that I have a family I enjoy, as I'm not very willing to do what it takes anymore to grab at the very tarnished brass ring. I will probably not return to LCC, instead likely becoming an "Eagle lifer loser". Most everyone cannot seem to fathom this decision, but it seems strangely clear to me (as clear as passing up my supposed dreams can be anyway). It's very hard to consider not going back; I guess we'll see when the call comes if I can stick to my guns.

Good luck to all in your decisions!

 

[BeCareful!]

Good luck with it, Swaayze.

There's just no rational explanation for all you've been through in the past six years. Who'da thought ASA was going to pull out of DFW? Who'da thought AirWisky would divorce United and throw a monkey wrench in the scope machine? Who'da thought GPAir would go out of business? Just kidding, we all knew that was going to tank!

But I'll tell ya, you won't hear any advice from me on going back. The stakes are very high for you with a young family. You can never get these years back if you give them away to the airlines, and we both know you won't even receive a "thank you" from management for your sacrifice.

Be at peace, Brother!

 

[sonny320]

MCDU;
I don't know about discrace, but I do know this:
1. AAA MC and MEC had lots of opportunity to NEGOTIATE a merged list, but they stuck with DOH and LOS.
2. AAA MC and MEC were instructed by the mediator/arbitrator (that they had a 50% share is selection) that DOH was NOT a tenable position.
3. During the arbitration phase, the mediator strongly suggested AGAIN that DOH was a non-starter.

My MC and MEC fought long and hard in a fair arbitration process to protect the AWA pilots relative seniority. They largely suceeded. The first 517 slots went to AAA pilots - DOH & LOS. Good for you. Our number one pilot got slot 518, resulting in a hefty loss of relative seniority.

In the past two years of debate the East has grown, upgraded and recalled pilots while all growth has ceased as a result of this business move. Again, good for you.

I would say the windfall goes both ways.

FYI:

The first 517 did go to the East but all those guys will be out (retire in 3 years or less). So the # 1 AWA (#518 on the list) will be sitting pretty in 3 years!!

 

[vetrider]

FYI:

The first 517 did go to the East but all those guys will be out (retire in 3 years or less). So the # 1 AWA (#518 on the list) will be sitting pretty in 3 years!!

Thats not entirely accurate, a good many of the east 517 were born from the early to the late 50s, a few as late as 58 and 59. Meanwhile, west number 1 retires this month.

For that matter, we have west fos who are older than many of the 517, and some who will never upgrade. Somehow that never seems to get much press.

 

[Green]

FYI:

The first 517 did go to the East but all those guys will be out (retire in 3 years or less). So the # 1 AWA (#518 on the list) will be sitting pretty in 3 years!!

You have no idea what you are talking about.....The #1 AWA pilot has already retired. Get your facts straight. The rabid blather from the east has completely overshadowed the facts. AWA pilots are not that much younger on average than AAA. Sure we have a few young guys at the bottom but we have many more at the bottom who have worked for 3 or 4+ airlines before coming here. The east BS is getting old...

 

[Green]

I will probably not return to LCC, instead likely becoming an "Eagle lifer loser". Most everyone cannot seem to fathom this decision, but it seems strangely clear to me (as clear as passing up my supposed dreams can be anyway). It's very hard to consider not going back; I guess we'll see when the call comes if I can stick to my guns.

Good luck to all in your decisions!

What??? That there is crazy talk...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Is it? He lives in Dallas. He could hang on to relative seniority at Eagle, bid short trips, spend time at home with family or....

... commute to Philly, spend his life in a crashpad, never see his family.

Doesn't sound so crazy to me.

 

[Green]

Is it? He lives in Dallas. He could hang on to relative seniority at Eagle, bid short trips, spend time at home with family or....

... commute to Philly, spend his life in a crashpad, never see his family.

Doesn't sound so crazy to me.

maybe ....who knows? If it was me and I was looking for quality of life I would pass on the narrowbodies and accept the 190. He/she could get real senior real quick and commute with 17-19 days off per month and 21 days of vacation per year (assuming new contract with AWA vac). It would be a huge payraise from Eagle FO pay plus he/she would be looking at a better 401k and more future advancement as seniority permits. But.....to each his own and Us Airways has generally been a bad call over the years so I would understand any reluctance to ever return...