UPS MGMT Pilot -- Ready, Aim, Fire!

[NoKoolAid]

AlbieF15,

I appreciate your responses and inputs. Your approach is exactly what I was hoping to gain from posting on this site. Thanks for your professionalism and I apologize for going on a "rant" in the previous post. He deserved it.

NoKoolAid

 

[capt. megadeth]

Canyon Blue--Get off of it. Could you honestly say that you would pass on FDX or Brown for SWA if you were starting out right now? This paradigm of yours that cargo airlines are somehow not majors is ridiculous.

.

I don't care what he calls us.....you can call us cow do do.....the fact is Big Brown has about the best job security that is possible in this industry.

 

[GuppyWN]

Canyon Blue--Get off of it. Could you honestly say that you would pass on FDX or Brown for SWA if you were starting out right now?

I would. I don't know what you guys make but flying in the day for Herb aint all bad. Having a couple thousand guys under you with more by the month aint all bad. I'm glad you like were you work - and we dang sure like it over here. Besides, Brown polyester makes me look fat

Hey NoKoolAid, I think you're nuts for even considering it. Now isn't exactly the best time to be "starting over" in this business. Nothing quite as uncomfortable as being number last on anybodys list. Especially number last management pilot.

Good luck with your decision,
Gup

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

tick...tick...tick
American/United have reorganized their cost structures
tick...tick...tick
The new US Air/America West merger will create the first true national LCC
tick...tick...tick
Air Tran and JetBlue continue to grow
tick...tick...tick
SWA fuel hedges avg price per barrel increasing.
Meanwhile China's economy continues double digit growth and India is soon to follow and UPS/FDX profits double. How does 2 billion per quarter sound? It will happen w/i 5 years.
BTW Herb retired a while back so you don't work for him anymore. Ever heard of Gary Kelly? Quite honestly I think you're nuts for not trying to get on here.

 

[canyonblue]

Canyon Blue--Get off of it. Could you honestly say that you would pass on FDX or Brown for SWA if you were starting out right now? This paradigm of yours that cargo airlines are somehow not majors is ridiculous.

If you never applied would that be considered passing? I only wanted to work at 2 Airlines, one was in my hometown the other was Southwest. Southwest called first. As far as Cargo Airlines I would not call them Majors, but rather Global. You should be glad you are currently in a class by yourself as it would seem to be a extremely stable career choice right now. But that could all change in 20 years, same as Southwest. You are correct though that if I had nothing to offer then why click on an apparent UPS link. Well, the same could be said for some of your fellow compatriots like Big Beer Belly, USNFDX, capt. megadeth, and klhoard appearing on threads such as SWA TV show, SWA Going to Denver, etc., not to mention various jetBlue threads. I would gladly never post on another Cargo related thread as long as the above refrain from posting on any Passenger Airline related thread. Let's see how long this lasts.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

It's certainly not a prerequisite to work at a company in order to make a comment.

Thanks for the compliment of my company. I feel lucky to be here.

SWA was my fourth choice behind the aforementioned and Cathay. SWA is an excellent company, but has a tenuous future. It's easy to start up an airline compared to starting up a global package deliver company. Aside from UPS, FDZX, DHL, and TNT there are no companies competing in our industry for the next 20 years. SWA could be bankrupt in 5 years, just like United from 1998-2003. Then again China and INdia could nuke each other and we'd be screwed.

 

[canyonblue]

It's certainly not a prerequisite to work at a company in order to make a comment.

But it's the tone of the comments.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Don't sweat it. It's only BS.

 

[OldGoat]

I feel your pain

NoKoolAide,
You're not the only one considering leaving the 121 life...Ever consider Part 91? Granted not all corporate flying jobs are the same and the good ones are hard to find, but it's the way to go if family time is most important (pay is very respectable too). I'm in a very similar situation as you, and am very close to getting a choice Part 91 job in my home town. I know that FedEx has a seperate corporate flight department and they allow those pilots to eventually cross over to the line if they choose too. Maybe they'll let you go the other way given your circumstances. Another source for corporate jobs is a Aviation Personnel International. They are very good at what they do and if they decide to represent you, they'll find you a job. If location is most important, start looking at major corporations where you want to live and start networking at the airport. Most CP's will at least talk to you if you come knocking. The hard part is finding them, unless you have a copy of the NBAA directory (check out the corporate board). Anyway, just a thought (at least you have time and a job to look around). By the way, I admire the courage of your post...to publically challenge the coveted 121 lifestyle and to consider trading it in for a management position with your company's rival...ballsiest move I ever saw man!

GBU,
OldGoat

 

[NoKoolAid]

Thanks for the Insight

Very much appreciated Old Goat! Thanks for the advice and support.
GBU as well,
NKA

 

[whitey]

Hey Kool Aide,

If your main factor is time in SDF, you might want to consider YUM brands. Someone else probably knows lot more about the job, but UPS ain't the only game in town. I think they fly Challengers and Gulfstreams and occasionally I hear that they are looking for pilots. I don't know anyting about pay or QOL though.

whitey

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Damn Koolaid, calling me out,

You even called me a tool. That was nice. Made me laugh.

Im a big enough person to admit when Ive stepped over the line and put my size 10 1/5 in my mouth. This would be one of those times.

No fighting from me, Ill have to defer that you could kicked my A$$. I dont mind, I did plenty of fighting in the Military (14 years) and now kids and family are more important to me than my ego.

I didnt mean to cause a fight with you, I'll admit, Im more sensitive to things these days relating to managment pilots because of this ongoing 3-4 year contract neg. My comments were mean spirited and off track. I have friends here that are manager and I went back and read my post today and was embarrassed that I wrote some of the things I didAgain, Im sorry if I offended you, I really am. If UPS is where you want to go, I say go. I wish you well.

People have asked me about going to managment and I always say the same thing. The Money is great, but the life Id have to lead to make that money would not be worth it in the long run. If I thought I could make a difference in how things are done around here, I give it more thought, but I know that for the most part, UPS does not want to change. Deep in tradition, UPS enjoys the divide.

Good luck with your decision, Some advice (you probably dont want it) If you do go to managment, Id work on the temper. Managers need to be the one in control of the situation, set the example, stay above the fray, not call people out to "dole the appropiate response" In my Marine Corps days, I guess Id be worthy of a blanket party for my obvious ill spirited comments, I understand I offended you and again, Im sorry for that.

Good Luck

BBDC8

 

[Huck]

If you were educated on the matter, you would know that they cannot be classified as scabs.

I gotta tell you, man, I've flown with some ex Eastern training department guys who thought the same thing. Their names are now on the list and their jobs are all hauling the proverbial rubber dog-doo out of Japan.....

One guy didn't even fly during the strike. He was told he would be fired if he didn't, so he said he would - in writing. He never crossed the line, just said he would. Made no difference.

Going into management and deciding to fly during a strike are two totally different decisions.

 

[RGPilot]

Hey...I am interviewing for this position soon. I have read the posts and would appreciate more info from all of you. Not sure what to do.

thanks

 

[brownie]

ups mgmt= scum, yes sir, thief, and a future scab or even previous ones. we have plenty of them here from ex united. Mybe that's where they got the name UPS (united pilot scabs). If u wanna be part of it then have at it< but let me tell u 1 thing , u will never be respected and your 4 stripe don't mean jack because every one knows how u got it, so enjoy your career in your little 4x6 office in sdf.

 

[NoKoolAid]

Brownie,

I agree with the credibility issues of being hired as a Captain from day one. It stands to reason that the better approach would be to start as an F/O in the training center teaching academics or basic sims for initial training. Move up after some experience. But, that's not how it works.

Scum. thief, future scab? Pretty harsh words. Sounds like you are venting because of the extended negotiations without a contract. We're in the same boat -- NMB -- just haven't been at it as long. We have a pretty low opinion of management here as well. Not the pilots, but the negotiators and the top executives. They are the "management' we disdain.

It's important to separate the company attorneys from SDF and ATL(management) at the negotiating table and the "management pilots" who are in the training center teaching, evaluating, etc. If there is a job action, these guys have to fly or they are fired. If they were union guys in management (like here at FedEx) and flew during a strike -- they are clearly scabs. What kind of significant impact can they really have based on the size of the system? Pretty minor impact overall. Do you call the President of UPS Airlines a "scab" for going to work during a strike? No. What about the CEO? No. They are corporate guys keeping the Company moving regardless of what the union does -- customers (the people who actually pay you) need to be served, reassured, and all that happy horse doo doo.

This adversarial relationship b/w union and management pilots is pathetic at best.

I appreciate everyone's inputs over the past few days -- I have considered all the pros and cons with my family. My parents and my wife have read every single post. We all think it's a pretty sad picture a Big Brown. Too bad really.

The result is I would rather jump off a big brown cliff than enter the "hornet's nest" of UPS airlines. Best of Luck to all.

I'm out.

NKA

 

[sandman2122]

From Bigbeerbelly

From the sound of a lot of these comments, many are uninformed about a UPS mgmt pilot position. In the absence of any first-hand knowledge, several posters have understandably assumed that the position must be one similar to their airline's mgmt pilots. These assumptions, though logical, are completely inaccurate

I don't recall stating that the position is similar to my airline's management position, just passing on what my UPS buddy told me.....which I see you just confirmed as correct....thanks

BTW, your avatar is just wrong.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

From Bigbeerbelly




I don't recall stating that the position is similar to my airline's management position, just passing on what my UPS buddy told me.....which I see you just confirmed as correct....thanks

BTW, your avatar is just wrong.

Sandman ... sorry ... my paste job was misleading ... meant only to reference your post about FAR limits, not about above.

Your avatar is "oh sooooooooooooo riiiiiiiigggggghhhhhtttt"! Sometimes I log on just to .......... :0 ...... oh never mind!

BBB

 

[Rory Bellows]

Do you call the President of UPS Airlines a "scab" for going to work during a strike? No. What about the CEO? No. They are corporate guys keeping the Company moving regardless of what the union does

NoKoolAid…you’re not serious with that analogy, are you? No one is saying that corporate officers who show up at the office during a pilot strike are SCABS…at UPS or any other airline.

But if that corporate officer (President, CEO, CFO or management pilot) flies an airplane during a pilot strike, then yes, they are crossing a picket line and they are SCABS.

Rory

 

[Big Beer Belly]

This adversarial relationship b/w union and management pilots is pathetic at best.

NKA ... To some extent the problem is the medium. In a 5 minute phone conversation I could share so much more acrimonious history between labor and mgmt at UPS (especially the ground side) than you get here from a paragraph or two post (due to brevity/boredom/"how much effort do I really want to put into this" concerns).

The bottom line is that the list of sources for the animosity that exists between labor and mgmt at UPS is very long. UPS obviously feels it is in their best interest to run their 98 yr old company in this manner (opposite SWA's management style of team effort, mutual respect, all pulling in the same direction, etc...) Within a year, all former military guys (usually conservative by nature and suspicious of unions) are unanimous in their wholehearted support of the IPA. Why do you suppose that is? It doesn't take long to see and experience the heavy-handed, vindictive, and at times irrational mgmt style of UPS. For safety, job protection, and a reasonable quality of life unions are an absolute necessity here.

Mgmt pilots have the choice to either follow the company's orders or be FIRED. No union to protect them (they tried to unionize a few years back ... what does that say? Dorsey vs UPS) ... mgmt pilots largely lost in court, other trouble making mgmt pilots were (you guessed it) FIRED. BTW, I'm sure you connected the dots and realize that some of that attrition in the mgmt pilot ranks is not all due to retirement.

It is my personal opinion NKA, that you overreacted to BBDC8's little flame. He lobbed what amounted to a snowflake. You have to get much thicker skin if you are/were to survive here. There are many crusty line captains and plenty of confident younger FO's that are formidable in a professional exchange in person. I'd be happy to tutor you with periodic taunts to test your restraint if you think that'd be helpful. <------- That was a joke NKA!

Good luck at Fred ... I'm confident you made the correct decision. (I spoke with a mgmt pilot not long ago who is considering quitting ... he said it's gotten that bad ... sad 'cause he's one of the best/most respected. I think the good ones find it very tough to wear the mgmt hat and maintain their integrity at times ... and that's as gracious as I can phrase it.)

BBB